496HO Engine Upgrade Project Complete
 

I just wanted to thank the many people who assisted/guided me during the engine upgrade project. In particular I need to thank the following people for their extensive help and time without which a successful outcome for this project would not have been possible:

Bob Lloyd, Full Throttle Marine
Dave Gilbreth
Dave Stiff, Innovation Marine
Mark Skripek, GM HP3 Race Engine Program Manager
Jim Valako, Valako Race Heads
Dustin Whipple, Whipple Superchargers
Ray@Raylar
Steve Miklos

The goal was to obtain maximum hp with a naturally aspirated 496HO engine on 87 octane and retain the 496HO PCM555 including the Merc Guardian engine protection. The prop shaft dyno test results from Full Throttle Marine are attached. These results were adjusted to incorporate the 11% hp loss do to the Bravo X1 drive that Bob Lloyd has documented. The test was performed with full wet exhaust so these numbers do not include the 20-25 hp peak hp lost because of the wet exhaust as Raylar has experienced http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...-exghaust.html. WIth dry exhaust the peak hp should be 620-625 cshp.

Also attached is the ECU calibration AFR vs RPM vs MAP for 1-8 cylinders at the time of the dyno test. Cylinders # 1 and #3 (too rich) and #7 (too lean) are low on power above 4400 rpm which will be corrected at the next ECU recal when Dustin is not so busy traveling everywhere.

What still remains to resolve is keeping the engine oil temperature below 260F in the crankcase during extended WOT runs and dialing in the right prop after the ECU calibration is finally set. I was forced to upgrade the Bravo X1 drive to XR upper gears this June when the X1 broke during prop testing. Thanks Bob Lloyd. Breakin of the new gears is almost complete.

Now to enjoy it.

Very nice Bill!
I must say your tenacious addiction to get it right has been impressive!
We all benefit and learn on these projects :)
Thanks for sharing your near final results...
Now go enjoy it :evilb:
Dave

Thanks Bill. Obviously you've gotten great results from your efforts. I also want to say that your many questions forced me to research and learn a lot of things I otherwise would not have pursued. So, thanks for that also.

As a side note, Bill and I have identical boats. Mine has a Raylar engine that I tweeked a little and was able to get 570 HP at the flywheel. His boat outruns mine by at least 2-3 mph when running side by side. So as they say, "the proof is in the pudding"!

Hi Guys,
Very nice #s from the 496.
Did you bore or stroke the motor to get to 521"s?
Congratulations,
Steve

That is awsome!

Congratulations!

That horsepower should put you at just a touch over 80 mph with the right prop/outdrive depth.
Chris

Thanks everyone! It has been a journey. A very enjoyable one not to say there were not a lot of miss steps along the way.

My best speed so far was 84.8 mph GPS at 5765 rpm, bow cover on, driver only, full fuel, minimal chop. Atmospherics were at a whopping 103.6% relative hourse power even at 915' elevation during the January run. The Rage was really floating and wanted to chine walk at about 60% of trim out per the trim gage when I hit the 5700 rpm. At 50% trim out the rpm was 5500 rpm and the boat was stable but in the 83 mph range. Hard numbers attached. This was with an earlier ECU cal , copy attached, that I will be returning to except the idle-1800 rpm will be caled in the 13's. What is also interesting is that my hp now falls off after 5400 rpm and WOT was 300+ rpm beyond that with that old cal.

However these numbers were also obtained with a cold air induction system installed. This system was discovered to be robbing 20 hp (-0.3 psi MAP @ WOT) during the dyno test. So I will be interested to see how it runs with the cold air induction plumbing removed and this ECU cal installed. During a warmer summer run on the same lake w/o bow cover, two people, full gas, the attached good ECU cal and with the cold air induction plumbing present we ran 81+ mph GPS @ ~5500 rpm.

Yes it is bored .030" over and has the Raylar (Scat) forged stroker crank.

Outstanding. Enjoy the final product.
I2D

Latest Test Results
 

Just completed additional runs with the final ECU recal described earlier, the cold air induction removed, bow cover on, driver only, 1/2 fuel (unfortunately not full fuel for fair comparison purposes), minimal chop, atmospherics again at a whopping 103.6% relative horse power at 909' elevation with the same labbed B28 prop as before except relabbed by BBlades to his specifications and a request to improve bow lift. The Rage was chine walking like crazy most of the time at about 60% of trim gage when I hit 85.6 mph @ 5850 rpm. It was a real handful. Since my peak power is at 5300 - 5400 rpm not 5850 rpm more prop work (if possible with the current prop) is needed to optimize. Also full hydraulic steering has become a must to control the chine walking and probably will provide additional mph once the hull can be allowed to take a set. Anyone have a used Imco full hydraulic helm they want to sell?

Comparison of the % prop slip of a stock B26, the previous labbed B28L and the current labbed B28BBL is attached.

Sounds like you are really enjoying it, congrats :)

Rage, what mods did you do on your engine? Is it a Raylar? I'm looking at different options myself. I have an 06 Heat with the 496 HO. I'm in Utah so the altitude here eats up the horsepower. Anyway I'm looking to upgrade, been leaning toward a blue motor or possibly a custom build.

Lots of mods in three seperate incremental steps to 490hp, then ~550hp(stock intake) and finally 625hp. I wish I had known in the begining what in the end I would really want/need. Do not pick away at it. Decide how fast you want to go and then work backwards from that as to the upgrades in engine, drive and steering that are required to support your speed goal. Please do as I suggest not as I (mistakingly) did. I wasted a lot of $$$.

The current engine package is a GM HP3 Gen II (iron) heads and valve train (except Comp Cam 929 springs & stock lifters) plus bigger Ferrea 2.25" intake/1.84" exhaust valves ported, set up by Jim Valako, Raylar intake, Bored and ported throttle body, Adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Raylar (Mahle) forged pistons, Raylar (Scat) forged stroker crank and rods, Melling HV oil pump, 120F thermostat, Hardin Marine 3x18 thermostatically controlled oil cooler, all AN-10 oil lines and fittings, Dana Flow Torque manifolds with #5 risers and many many custom PCM555 ECU recals by Dustin Whipple now at 50 psi fuel pressure with HP3 timing on 87 octane. Peak power is at 5300-5400 rpm rev limiter 6000rpm.

I was blessed with a ton of help from two engine builder mentors that are listed at the beginning of this thread. I knew very little about custom engine builds at the start. They lead me to where I am today. One is located in Utah.

Thanks for the heads up. I have followed some "miserable upgrade stories" here and there, with guys losing entire seasons trying to get the bugs worked out etc. Sounds like it took you awhile but you finally got it done. I will see what Dave can do and go from there. Thanks again

Sounds like your project went very smoothly! I wish ours did... hell I started the project the last week of January and IT IS STILL NOT DONE! With everything corner turned there is yet another fist in my face. And now with the engine not even to the point of running it looks like there is an oil leak coming the oil pan seal in the front or just above it. IT HASN'T EVEN BEEN IN THE WATER YET!

I had the work done at a reputable off shore engine builder and we expecting a lot more out of him I guess. Like for instance engine build specs, cam information and cam installation/position specs. Non of which I have!

Ray at Raylar is GREAT! He has helped me out quite a bit and I am thankful for that. He always takes my calls and answers my questions.

Latest Results 2012
 

Since the last post I have added full hydraulic steering in an attempt to control the chine walking and started the dial in process of a Bravo B30 c/o BBlades to bring the WOT rpm for max mph at optimum trim down from 5800 rpm with the labbed B28 to the 5300-5400 rpm peak power band of the engine. I also optimized the previous cold air induction system to reduce the manifold air press drop enough so that the hp gain from the cold air (versus the hot engine compartment air) into the manifold provides a net gain. Best run so far with full gas tanks, bow cover on, driver only and 100.4% relative HP atmospherics was 86.2 mph at 5309 rpm and 7 degrees of positive drive trim on light chop water with the BBlades revision #1 labbed B30. Above 7.2 degrees trim the speed fell off. The stock B30 ran under essentially identical conditions and relative HP atmospherics produced 84.8 mph @5275 rpm with 9.5 degrees of positive trim. Data attached. The best speed I posted previously with the BBlades revision #1 labbed B28 was 85.6 mph @5850 rpm but that was with half empty tanks and 103% relative HP atmospherics ( about 19 more HP). A later test of BBlades revision #2 labbed B28 with 97% relative HP atmospherics ( about 19 less HP) and full tanks netted 84.0 mph @5620 rpm. I was trying to get into the motor's peak power band with the B28. The original ProPellor labbed B28 ran 84.8 mph @5800 rpm at 103% relative HP (about 19 more HP) and full tanks. All of the B28 prop tests were run with the stock flame arrestor and no cold air induction.

My frustration is that I am still not free of the chine walking at max mph/rpm drive trim position even with the full hydraulic steering. Chine walking is definitely much better now than with the manual steering /external hydraulic steering ram. I am interested in any information on what are the chine walking stability limits for the Nordic Rage in degrees of positive trim angle at 86 mph with a Bravo 1 drive. I need this optimum stable trim angle for the BBlades revision #2 B30 target.

Are there any other factors in Nordic Rage set up that can increase / decrease chine walking sensitivity at 86 mph. At 83 mph and below there is no chine walking problem.

Great to see you back on here. I've been wondering what you've been up to. Thought maybe you lost interest and moved on to something else. Call me sometime.

Bill, Your Rage is a light hull with a small pad. I wonder if running at WOT, full fuel (Rage has side tanks), but only one person is causing the boat to fall off the Pad initiating chine walk. Maybe try taking a passenger next time for balance.

My best YTD run was 94mph at Havasu over Monster Bash '12 with zero chine walk. This was on very flat water, maybe 6" of ripple, driver and one passenger.

Bill, one thing that really stands out to me in your setup that could be causing and/or aggravating your chine walk is your trim angle. If you can get your boat to run with the propshaft more parallel to the pad, it will handle better at speed and use your horsepower more efficiently. You are headed in the right direction with the labbed 30" prop.
I am not familiar with the X dimension on the Rage. Just a theory, on Butch's older '96 Heat with a deep (I think it was 15.5"s) XD, he always had to run a lot of trim to (semi)surface his propeller, which induced a lot of porpoising. We put a 2" shorty on his boat (now with a theoretical 17.5" XD), and it runs much better, even though it runs flatter. It requires very little if any positive trim now. I run maybe 1 or 2 degrees max. On my manual Livorsi gauge, with a 1-10 scale, I cruise at 2, and run WOT at 2.5 to 3. 2.5 on my gauge is parallel to the pad. My XD with a 1" spacer is 18.25"s.
Has anyone tried a short lower on a fast Rage? How did that work? Although a 4 blade should have plenty of blade area for your boat, has anyone tried a 5 blade on a fast Rage?
Lateral weight placement is also critical to getting a pad vee to handle properly at high speed. There is so little hull in contact with the water, they are inherently unstable. When your fuel is level in both tanks, does the boat fall off the pad to one side? If it does, reduce your gas load on that side. I run 1/4 tank more on the right to offset the propeller torque on my boat, which tries to roll the boat to port.
Bob L had one at Lake Cumberland a few years ago with blown 540 in it. I know it was really fast. He probably has some ideas for you.
Best Regards,
Steve

That boat just had add on hydraulic steering and chine walked really bad with trim. It would run around 90 with minimal trim and pretty solid. Once you started trimming it would get really crazy. He sold it before we got full hydraulic steering on it. The Rage does require a lot of trim to get maximum speed. Never tried a shorter drive on one.

Bob

Hi Bob. I was on a bit of a hiatus. I had to completely rip out and replace our brick patio and repaint the house in St Louis. I did not get to see the lake until July. Now I am back to finish the Nordic project mostly with prop dial in remaining. I'll call.

Bill

I think what you say makes a lot of sense. I will try that. Thanks, Bill

Thanks for the extensive input. I clearly have some more research/testing ahead to answer your questions and get where I want to be. I suspect a lateral load imbalance is a significant contributor. The problem with my set up is that at conservative trim the boat is stable but to get max speed I need to search the limits of max trim as Bob Lloyd mentioned for the Rage hull. I had the X dimension but now can not find it. Is that 1/4 tank extra weight on the starboard side of your Heat to balance the prop torque with driver only or other? Thanks, Bill

Bill, from previous conversation, your prop shaft is the same as mine @ 5.5" below the pad.

Thanks Jon.

Bill

Steve, Thanks for posting your suggestions and info. Is that 1/4 tank extra weight on the starboard side of your Heat to balance the prop torque with driver only or other? Do you use that same 1/4 tank with both the five blade and the Bravo four blade props? My prop shaft is 5.5 inches below the bottom of the pad. How does that compare with yours? i appreciate any response you care to provide.

Thanks again,

Bill

I use it to offset the right hand propeller torque. With just me on board, it seems about right. With a passenger in the port bolster, I have to use even more gas weight/level in the starboard tank. The passenger weight makes it a little worse. With a boat load (3/4/5) of passengers, I try to get more weight (guys) to sit behind me or in the rear middle with a load of five. It's always better to get the boat to run level laterally by redistributing your total load (coolers/accessories/gas/crew) rather than tabbing it out. Obviously, if we are just out for an afternoon cruise to our local lake bars, I just use the tabs.
I sold my four blades off. I did have one that worked pretty well, which was labbed by Throttle Up (unfotunately no longer working on other manufacturers props), but it still fell off with a load. 4 blades are more weight sensitive on Heats with high X dimensions. With the P5-Xs, there is very little difference in performance. The extra blade area carries the longer/heavier Heat much better.
Good luck with your testing Bill. Your boat is running very well. Sometimes it takes some "seat time" to get the last 2 or 3 MPH wrung out. Be safe and keep us posted.
Best Regards,
Steve

Bill
I agree with this quote. First off I don't believe you will get every bit of the china out of the hull. You will learn what water condition and slosh you can get away with. The full Hydraulic steering will help a lot but you lose your turn radius on a single engine application. A out of a box five blade will help also but you may lose 1-3 mph on top end. If you have a buddy that has a 5 blade Lab Maximus or22degree Hering to try out I would definitely try them. These prop will lift that bow for you (less trim)... If you like you can borrow my Hering to try out. So you can see what using less trim will do for you.

George

I recently swapped my 29 P5X to goeble1 for a 28 P5X. It really works great on my Heat. You might want to give it a try when we meet up in June. I'm affraid George's Herring might be a bit large for Bill's Rage, but it might be a good test of handling.

Bob

Steve, Thank you for your response to my questions. Always much appreciated. I have one remaining issue to bring under control before I can begin the weight balance testing in earnest. That is the runaway engine waste heat that my current engine oil flow with 3x18 oil cooler can not handle during extended WOT running. The cooled oil never exceeds the thermostat 190F set point but at WOT the crank case oil keeps climbing until I shut down usually ~250F-270F. I have an auxiliary crankcase oil cooler design I intend to implement first then hopefully I can do the extended WOT runs to play with the hull weight balance vs chine walking issue and the max trim the hull will usefully tolerate along with the additional WOT seat time to learn from. I also just figured out how to data log gps speed in addition to the rpm, throttle% and drive trim angle for testing record purposes. I will post how it goes.

George,

Thank you for the input. I know no one with those props. It is amazingly nice of you to offer to lend me your Hering to test. I may take you up on that at some point since Bblabes can put more bow lift into mine as well but I am hesitant at this point because others have run props with too much built in bow lift on a Rage and had drive ability problems. So again thank you. What pitch is your Hering?

Thank you Bob! Yes I think I would like to try your 28P5x versus my B30 next June. I should be able to data log the GPS mph vs rpm vs throttle vs trim at 1 second intervals by then. I may have to do the runs at dawn to avoid the in season boat traffic but that is doable. Thanks.

PS When you get done with your winter engine upgrades you may want that 29 back except that you will be turning more r's.

Steve,
A follow up question....was there any difference in the prop torque between your P5-X and your four blade Bravo that required different amount of counter balancing weight to balance the hull?

It still had some right hard rotation, roll to port effect, even with the 4 blades, but it wasn't as pronounced. I had some extra cup added to my four blades to try and lock them up better, for more lift and less slip.
Since the 5 blades lock up much better, they also have the side effect of more torque roll. It isn't bad once you get the boat balanced for it. The upside is more efficient hole shot/plane off, less midrange slip %, better loaded top end #s, and more consistent handling on my boat, regardless of water conditions, smooth, choppy, or rough.
Regards,
Steve

Bill, and others with Rages. Please keep in mind the Rage and Heat are totally different boats. I've owned both, and you drive them totally different. They react different to trim, props and water conditions. Heats generally have a lot of prop slip, especially at lower speeds. The Rage does not. So the information Steve, myself and others relate about the Heat does not necessarily apply to the Rage.

Also, remember last time you tried my 5 blade it cost you a drive...

Bob

25.5 pitch

Bob,
If you need the 29 back just let me know its just a back up prop for me.

Thanks Bob. Yes that lesson I will not soon forget. I am trusting that the upgrade from the 425hp rated Bravo X1 upper gears to the 600 hp rated XR upper gears will give me a little more latitude to just test a five blade for bow lift performance. I will never own one though.

What else have you done to the B1x? I have a Raylar HO600 (dyno'd 660 HP) on a 2004 B1x (stock) and have yet to have an issue (knock on wood) but it is off to Mr. Gadgets this off season to be strengthened as best as possible. The boat is a 6000 lbs (loaded up) single engine Baja 25 OL.

After the XR gears the best thing I did was add a Simrek Halo Max drive shower. Before that I learned that with the Nordic supplied drive shower the drive lube and the engine crank case oil were having a race to see which could get hotter faster at WOT. It was basically a tie when I would chicken out and shut down at 270F. I had no problems with the X1 drive until I tried Bob's five blade Hydromotive (with much less slip) and also forgot the rule to not give more than 50% throttle during plane out/hole shot.

Do you have an engine oil temperature gauge? If yes what oil cooler do you run and is the oil temperature measured before or after the oil cooler? What is the max oil temp you see during extended WOT running and how long is that WOT run time?

George, What is your max engine HP at what rpm? What rpm do you turn that 25.5 pitch Hering at what lake elevation?

Thanks,

Bill

I do not have an oil temp gauge. The oil cooler is the stock unit.