Snow Falling Time For A Winter Project
12-21-2011 | 12:58 PM
#241
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,755
Likes: 152
From: Connecticut
Personally, I cant afford big power. High maintainence, high fuel bills, high risk of breakin sh!t, and poor reliability........unless you use quality parts and a quality builder who stands behind his work. Makes all the difference IMO. Really kind of a waste though if your not using the power to its potential..... Example: I love Scots boat, but he would boat the same way with 600HP a side. Besides that,he would save gas, reliability, less maintainence, less worry... So when hes ready to unload those monsters, Ill trade him my 700's and ILL use those things to their potential! Man, am I slamming everone today?...PMS.
yes it is...hah
12-21-2011 | 01:16 PM
#243
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,535
Likes: 1
From: MA
Idk????
12-21-2011 | 01:31 PM
#246
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 3
From: At the office.
I haven't followed all of this, but just scanning over the last couple of posts...
Haha, who doesn't want ALL of these things... See Pat's classic quote below!
Kind of like asking why do you drive a car with more than 100 hp??? Hell, why do you have this type of boat to begin with??? Another classic quote "Because I can", haha!
I don't agree that only high rpm's kill engines, higher cylinder pressures/power levels certainly wear them more rapidly as well. That being said, if the power isn't being realized (not under extreme boost), it's not wearing the engine more rapidly, but when you are building max power it clearly does wear the engine more quickly. I'm personally not really looking for more torque, but with well over 1000 lbs-ft on tap (I haven't looked at my dyno sheets lately), that's probably more than enough as is. But at the end of the day it's really the torque that pushes you back in the seat and allows high cruise speeds (if propped correctly).
BTW, some people don't really have a good understanding of torque and how it relates to hp. If you're not certain, do a quick Google search and some reading...
http://www.google.com/search?q=torqu...w=1152&bih=719
Not at all! I'd much rather run my engines at 3500 rpm with minimal boost than have to spin the crap out of them to maintain the same cruise speed... again assuming they are propped correctly. The only time I would really be concerned about lugging the engines would be under very high loads at very low rpm (say under 1200 rpm).
I can't say I agree 100% with everything Pat wrote (as written anyway), but I do agree with his first statement "Bigger power = higher cruise speed" and his last classic quote " FAST, CHEAP, RELIABLE
YOU GET TWO...YOU ONLY EVER GET 2"... both are certainly true.
Just my 2 cents.
So here is the question for the big power guys why run the big HP power? Do you run top speed more often?
Are you looking for more torque? I know it was said yesterday that rpms kill motors not HP, but in order to run top speed you are at wot and high rpms.
BTW, some people don't really have a good understanding of torque and how it relates to hp. If you're not certain, do a quick Google search and some reading...
http://www.google.com/search?q=torqu...w=1152&bih=719
If you are out running those high HP motors at 3500 rpms is that lugging motor bad for it?
Bigger power = higher cruise speed...
Your torque/hp numbers go up exponentially however this creates a new predicament. Just because you're running more boost, doesn't mean allot will change...
Big cubic inch gives more torque, for instance, 4000 for a 502 with a blower will make probably in the ball park of 550-600torque at cruise...a 600/632/588/98 will do with a blower, probably around 900torque....hp obviously following, this equates to more cruise speed at a lower rpm. It's not the top end, if you want to cruise fast, you have to over build, but take into consideration, more boost won't necessarily get you there, understand what your blocks are capable of and where your blower kicks in...be it roots or screw it all makes a variation.
Personally I like the acceleration and the ability to have endless power, so therefore building up is the way to go. I've always thought, find where you want to cruise, then figure your top end, add 10-15mph to that, that's what you build your motors to.
It's all about combination, propping etc. Torque is what makes cruise speed, not hp...look at the ilmors...they routinely run 5000+ but they run fine there, more hp than torque...wind em up they'll push the boat but it takes a minute to get there...
My boat runs fine at a cruise, but the hull difference , efficiency, it's a different setup, each setup is unique...if that sheds any light. The original Madhatter was fine @ cruise at 95-100....but the hp difference was drastic...I cruise now 70-80 no issue.....
It's not lugging the motor at 3500-4000...it is at 3k....in my opinion...
You want to let the block breathe, then the boost will do more, if the block is breathing it makes more hp naturally and the boost will go down...then your boost will make a larger difference if you have efficient heads etc.
REMEMBER THIS: FAST, CHEAP, RELIABLE
YOU GET TWO...YOU ONLY EVER GET 2...
if it's fast and cheap it's not reliable....
if it's reliable and cheap, it's not fast...
if it's reliable and fast, it aint cheap...
Your torque/hp numbers go up exponentially however this creates a new predicament. Just because you're running more boost, doesn't mean allot will change...
Big cubic inch gives more torque, for instance, 4000 for a 502 with a blower will make probably in the ball park of 550-600torque at cruise...a 600/632/588/98 will do with a blower, probably around 900torque....hp obviously following, this equates to more cruise speed at a lower rpm. It's not the top end, if you want to cruise fast, you have to over build, but take into consideration, more boost won't necessarily get you there, understand what your blocks are capable of and where your blower kicks in...be it roots or screw it all makes a variation.
Personally I like the acceleration and the ability to have endless power, so therefore building up is the way to go. I've always thought, find where you want to cruise, then figure your top end, add 10-15mph to that, that's what you build your motors to.
It's all about combination, propping etc. Torque is what makes cruise speed, not hp...look at the ilmors...they routinely run 5000+ but they run fine there, more hp than torque...wind em up they'll push the boat but it takes a minute to get there...
My boat runs fine at a cruise, but the hull difference , efficiency, it's a different setup, each setup is unique...if that sheds any light. The original Madhatter was fine @ cruise at 95-100....but the hp difference was drastic...I cruise now 70-80 no issue.....
It's not lugging the motor at 3500-4000...it is at 3k....in my opinion...
You want to let the block breathe, then the boost will do more, if the block is breathing it makes more hp naturally and the boost will go down...then your boost will make a larger difference if you have efficient heads etc.
REMEMBER THIS: FAST, CHEAP, RELIABLE
YOU GET TWO...YOU ONLY EVER GET 2...
if it's fast and cheap it's not reliable....
if it's reliable and cheap, it's not fast...
if it's reliable and fast, it aint cheap...
YOU GET TWO...YOU ONLY EVER GET 2"... both are certainly true.
Just my 2 cents.
12-21-2011 | 01:50 PM
#248
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 3
From: At the office.
Personally, I cant afford big power. High maintainence, high fuel bills, high risk of breakin sh!t, and poor reliability........unless you use quality parts and a quality builder who stands behind his work. Makes all the difference IMO. Really kind of a waste though if your not using the power to its potential..... Example: I love Scots boat, but he would boat the same way with 600HP a side. Besides that,he would save gas, reliability, less maintainence, less worry... So when hes ready to unload those monsters, Ill trade him my 700's and ILL use those things to their potential! Man, am I slamming everone today?...PMS.
Kev, the reason it seems like I'm always babying my boat is because I am typically AM when you were still in sight to see it.
12-21-2011 | 02:00 PM
#249
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,213
Likes: 376
From: Plainville/Old Lyme, CT Boca Raton, FL
You guys are forgetting a big part of the equation which is price of parts and initial purchase price of the motor itself. You can blow up a stock 454 every weekend of the summer and it will prolly cost less to run for the year than an annual freshen up on a pair of 1500's. I guess what I'm saying is that if you are one of the fortunate few to make it through a year running a very hi output motor, it will still cost more than the guy who blew up his little 454 five times.
