OPA P class boats???
 

Smitty, can you list the boats that are planning on running with OPA and the classes they THINK they should be in? Is it possible to make the P5 and P4 single engines run as one class? Speed run the boats to a max of 75MPH in P4 and leave P5 to the smaller boats that might have closer to stock power and run a max of 65 MPH. This would also be much safer. With this scenario there could be 15-20 boats in P4, what a blast!!!!!
By reducing the speed on the classes you will also lower the cost to race your boat. Less speed means less HP which means less breakage which means less cost which means more racing which means more competition which means more boats which mean more spectators which means more sponsors which means more money MORE FUN FOR ALL!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
MD

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Agree 100 %%%

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Now that post has a lot of meaning... :D

Hopefully it will bring out more SOBs...... :drink:

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

If you go out and test and qualify every boat based on top speed, then how can you later disqualify,or qualify them based on average speed, during the race ? Every boat is traveling a differant distance, but your calculations are based on every boat traveling the exact same distance, and your doing it from shore ,it can't work!
Qualify by top end Disqualify by top end ! GPS
Walt

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

MD You may have come up with somthing that could work out good for everyone.

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Walt, the point is you wouldn't have too do average speed or GPS. If the first place boat got post race speed tested and the inspector had on board 2 GPS systems and found the boat could not break out of the bracket speed then he earned the win! The boat would be at its lightest weight on fuel and should post its best speed run. You could have someone like Smyth 1 as an inspector who has plenty of knowledge on the speed run. Ocean races you would not need to do this.
If you want to go a step further you would limit the cubic inch of the motors in P5 and P4. Top speed is just one factor in equalizing the boats. Big cubic motors mean big acceleration to top speed which can be just as unfair as 2-5 mph top end. This is also why you shouldn't run twin motor boats with singles. They may have the same top end but a twin will kill you every-time out of the turn.
Smitty you said you were all ears, tell me when to stop if you don't want anymore ideas.
MD

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

ImO the singles in P4 should prop down and run in P5 with an honest prop calc and a good sealed GPS as long as they make length requirement. The GPS would just add to make a safeguard for break outs. Cubic inch limitation would further even out the playing field. Now add a day before the race to qualify and that should make for an even race. I have seen expierienced drivers that could get 2 to 3 mphs more out of a boat than a rookie. Then it comes down to the start position and experience which there is no way to police this and that is fair game. :drink:

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Randy great points, test before with an inspector, run the whole race at WOT without having to worry about breaking out looking all day at a GPS. I would not run in a GPS sanction race, it is a sand bagging machine control by the throttleman. If a seal gps is mounted inside the boat then the boats gps should be covered and tagged by an inspector. I know a lot of people dont like my thinking but I cant stand the fact that some still run in the wrong class looking at the gps holding back to not break out.

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

To have a competitive race, boats have to be within 3 MPH of each other. That is about the speed of a person walking. All other variables being equal, a boat with a 3 MPH advantage will most likely finish a half a lap ahead of the others. But this is racing and a good team can close that gap even with the lack of top speed.

You have to assume most boats are setup to run at the top of their brackets. i.e. P4, your boat should do at least 77 MPH to be competitive. If not, underprop and be at the top of P5.
The only true limiting factor available to us, short of pulling back on the throttle, is limiting prop rotations via rev limiter.
This can not be changed on the fly, and is absolute restriction of higher prop speeds.
The only problem with this is different hulls create different slip%.
An old heavy deep V can turn a 26" prop 5200 RPMs but can't even get to 72 MPH (18% slip).
A newer F1 boat turning a 26" prop 5200 RPM's will break 75 MPH. (12% slip) These newer hulls are more efficient with steps, pads and in some cases shallower vees.

So when figuring out the top speed of a boat based on "prop calc" I believe the "prop slip" should be addressed when determining bracket placement.
This way everyone is on a relatively even playing field to start with and the better teams/setups win, not the one with the biggest horsepower/weight ratio.
If we know in advance what the prop slips are ahead of time, based on hull type (deep vee, modified vee, single, twin) we can set up our props and engines(cams) to be competitive. The first one to cross the finish wins. There is no way to cheat or sandbag. All deep vee singles have the same slip%, all the "modified vee" twins have the same slip% and so on...

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

In Camden last year, Anthony got in and ran many if not all of the P4 and P5 boats. He installed the chips to limit the speed. Apperently some people weren't too happy with the chip selection. What happened? Like 5 lead changes in P5 and at least that many in P4. That was some of the tightest racing I've ever seen. And we didn't need to rely on any speed registering equipment. It was just balls to the wall racing. Grumpy Old men won and Papa Dukes had the lead several times.

Who eles was there...?

It seems like whatever was done in Camden in P4 and P5 worked.

Randy, tell me you didn't have a great battle with that crazy OB powered Superboat.

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Ron,
I agree the P5 race in Camden was great! I believe Herb in the SOB boat even had the lead at one point??

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

That was great racing, Great rev limiter racing, Great lead changes,

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Went from this to this in 1 lap in about 4 minutes....

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

After 20 minutes, it was the 4 fastest boats out front and everyone else was nowhere to be found...

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Well Talke About Beating A Dead Dog I Looks To Me P5 P4 Are Where The Problem Lies I'm Building A New Boat I'm Building It For A Certain Class And It Will Pass Any Test You Want To Give It Again I Don't Think Avg Speed Is The Way To Go If You Look At Last Years Races P1 P2 P3 Nobody Brock Out I Only Hope We Can Get Things Fixed Now No At The Race Site

Harry

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

You hit the nail in the head, my 28 Pantera with a four blade Hydromotive has 17 to 18 % no matter what you do to it. Now with the H6 Hydro I`m getting a 12%. Big diffrence, every boat is not equal and P class calculations are done equally and it is not accurate at all because every boat is diffrent. Yes it is the only tool used but it is still not fair for some.

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Prop slip is SO hard to get right. Like some of you have said with 3-6 blades its all over the lot. The other problem is X dimension of the drive height. With those 2 variables and all the combinations they have you would have to be a rocket scientists and you would still be guessing. Back to the original problem, its a good starting point until we can build a better mouse trap!

The race in Camden in P5 was great for the front runners. My question to the boats in the back would be did they get beat on skill or speed? I'm thinking all 10 boats could have stayed together till the finish line if nobody could have gone faster than 69 MPH. How cool would it be to see ALL the boats in the hunt on the last lap!
If you think about it and you want even racing we should demand that your boat runs at the top speed of the class. If not prop down if you can. Make sure all boats in P5 can run 69 MPH and no more than 70 MPH. NO EXCUSES THEN! If you get the right prop you can achieve this and then fine tune the throttle adjustment to dial it in for weather conditions. The smart teams would set there boats for 68.5-69 MPH with little to no fuel and then run WOT and hope for the best. ONLY a fool would set his boat to 69.5-70 MPH and pray after he won that it wouldn't break out over 70.1 MPH on GPS.
Happy hunting boys
MD

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Thats why we should "pre-determine" what the slip% are based on one of 3 hull designs.
There are only 3 basic hulls in offshore.
A) Conventional deep vee (single/twin)
B) Modified vee, or anything with a step, vents, pads or shallower than 24 degrees. (single/twin)
C) Cat (twin)
All boats fall into one of these categories.
Say all deep vee, singles use a slip calc of 18% (or what ever we all decide as a group), no exceptions. Our individual boats may be a little better or worse, but it's pretty darn close. It will make for some very tight racing.
Pre-determine the one official slip % for ALL modified vees, single and twins, the same for deep vee, singles and twins. Do the same for cat twins.
This isn't that complex of an idea, and its self policing with a rev limiter. No clock or GPS watching, you bounce off the limiter, your going to fast. The only inspections that need to be done is at the end of the race, an inspector comes over and checks your chip, if any disputes, they pull the coil wire and check prop ratio. Just what they did in Camden, and that was a success. I'm just suggesting we tighten it up even more.
The teams are responsible for setting up their props, chips and boats so the prop calc does not exceed the break out speed.

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

As you can tell I really,really like the P5 class and want the best fairest racing for these guys. IN my opinion they are some of the most die hard racers out there. And you know why I know that?. Its the teams at the lowest classes that suffer more and sacrifice to do what they love to do. We are the guys that REALLY shouldn't be racing because of financial reasons but will do just about anything to get out on the water. My hat is off to all you!!!!!!! :evilb: :evilb:
MD

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

OPA will not determine slip% for you EXACT boat, just your hull "type".
Here is an example.
Say I have a 28' Pantera (heavy conventional vee), the horsepower and speed get me into the 70-80 MPH range. I want run P4. OPA dictates that ALL single engine deep vee hulls will use a 18% slip number in determining the max speed. I have some choices, I can run a 26" at 5900 with a slip% of 18, puts me at 79.4 mph.
Or I can run a 28" prop with a 5500 rev limiting chip to achieve the same speed. Just that the prop calc must not exceed the max speed of your bracket. You can run whatever style prop you want, it will be stamped with a pitch #, that is what will be used. raised x, lighter layup, more streamlined topsides all contribute to having a more efficient boat. Your ACTUAL prop slip numbers may be lower than what OPA says that hull style should be, but that is why we tweak our boats and try to get them to go faster. The teams that spend the time dialing in the boat and props should prevail over the guy who just trows the cooler and water ski's out and goes racing. And it will still be close!!

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

But you dont have a 28 foot Pantera. You have a different creature :eek: :drink:

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Bruce,
I don't, but the Manta is a close cousin to it. I'm only using the Pantera because I know the slip calcs for it, and it is a conventional deep vee. These hulls make up the majority of the P classes.
Are you bringin' the ol' girl out next season to run some P class? :rolleyes:

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

I would take the 5900 RPM ALL DAY LONG. Woulnt you?

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Is there a P5 class rep?

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

How could a Manta be a close cousin to a Pantera? one is a cat the other is a fish :D

yes...looks like I will be runnin the Pantera again. just to keep it fair, we will be in P-2 this year :eek:

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

I nominate Randy for P5 representative.

Wil

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Harry,

It's great to see you coming back out. Another "Obsession" boat? Outerlimits or something else?

See ya soon,

Ron

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

hi ron
yes it will be obsession race team it will not be an outerlimits you will just have to wait and see i can tell you its pretty cool

harry

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Who is planning in running P4 in OPA this year, my boat can do an honest 80 mph....with my na motor not the blower motor. I couldnt run with my blower motor that would put me in P1 at 100 +.

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Only if I had Jessel valvetrain :D

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Harry, fear not. We have the P class under control. We are glad to see so much interest in racing. And yes we are reading everything that is posted. You never know where the next mouse trap will come from. We are hesitant to change in any of the classes, because there are a number of teams building boats for a particular class. The longer you leave the rules the same, the confidence begins to grow in the sport. Smitty

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

thanks smitty i know you guys will get it right took a year off thought i was out worst year of my life i guess i just can't live without it

see ya harry

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Welcome back Harry. Where are the CLAMS???

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Forget the clams, bring the lobsters!!!

Harry, you in anything other than an Outerlimits just won't seem right.

Can't wait to see the new toy. Is Bob running with you again?

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Augie There Not Clams There Quhogs And Yes We Will Be Eating Them Again Soon As For The Lobsters No To Worry You Forgot About The Shimp And Steak Well Now I'm Getting Hungry And I'm On A Diet Need To Fit Into My Life Jacket See Ya Soon Boys

Harry

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

P class will be near impossible to regulate other than top speed. The equipment being run is too diverse. By throwing a slip # out there to use as a reference point will not work for all boats. I'm running a boat for P4 this season and I can assure you that if I have an 18% prop slip for a flat course that prop will be coming off, talk about throwing power into thin air. Let's talk props, my super cupped 27 spins the exact same rpm as my 28 but it's 4 MPH faster. How are you going to calculate that? Everyone needs to be able to run the top speed of their class. If your boat can't achieve this you need to work on your setup to have a demon in the corners or a super fast stable rough water setup. How often do you run WOT the entire way around a course. I raced SOB's for many years. The 80MPH progressions and activators looked real good running in the bay. My cut down flat deck modified 20Ft 72MPH Sea Ray would whoop their arse every race day cause it also ran 72MPH in 2 to 3 footers, they ran 60.

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Dose that mean the Mailman can come out of retirement?

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

Jeff, If you think you got what it takes bring the mailbox back out! School is in session!!!
MD :evilb:

Re: OPA P class boats???
 

You forgot P7- Cruisers, bass boats, jet skis, and pontoon boats with less than 3 engines :D :evilb: :D