Prop Thickness
 

OSS has a prop rule on how thick your props can be at certain areas on the blades. They have offered to test your props prior to racing them and most of us have not done that. My sugestion would be to have every prop in your truck tested before you race it at the next race. Mini Me and Micasuki both got 3 min. peneltys for prop thickness. Both teams had no idea that there props were not within OSS standerds. And from what I was told they were real close. I aplode OSS for having tight rules and sticking to them. You can bet your bottom dollar I will have all my props checked again before the next race.
We may have moved up to 3rd in SVL beacause of this but Eric and Dave out drove us on the course all day long. Nice job guy's
MD

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step away from the computer :p

and get back to work

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Lesson learned this weekend! :eek:

My hat is off to OSS for enforcing the rules too!

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I like the idea of inspection up front. No suprizes later on.

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This is the classic case of racers not reading and knowing the rule book inside and out. When I was an inspector I tried to help those racers out before they got out on the course and raced then got docked for an infaction (ie spent there money for nothing). However many times during the inspection process I saw and caught illegal exhaust among other things during the short and rush inspection process. Most of the heavy inspection is done after the race because the pre-race inspection more of a safety inspection and checking for simple out in the open infractions.

RonP, if I remember correctly and I bet it is still this way...most boats do not go through inspection with the props on so there would be know way for an inspector to try and help a racer and point out this infraction.

Good for OSS to uphold the rules fair and square and not let any politics get in the way. :drink:

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At the drivers meeting prior to the race Mike Tomlinson our chief referee made the statement that props are becoming an issue and make sure you have the correct measurements! On Friday I personally heard Jim Arvis ask some of the SVL teams if they wanted a pre race inspection of there props!.
MD

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we as buyers of these props should hold the manufacturer responsible for them to be made to spec.

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Mike I agree 100% with you and Randy on this topic. I do have a question; In the aftermath of some teams having a hard time getting the spec props, did that open the doors for other prop manufactures to get there foot in the door with similar pitch & diam props, but without strick guide lines in the manufacturing?
Mike

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Great to see rules being enforced, as well as penalties, and it doesnt matter
who it is! Break the rules and you will be fined, or penalized.

Keep up the good work guys the racing just keeps getting better.

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We had a set of wheels in Corpus last year that would have almost certainly put us closer to the front, however we ended up in the back because I chose to have them checked. As most of you know I have had my share of challenges with post- race inspections. But props are SOOO tricky ! We ran a set on the old F2 35' that came off the shop floor . ? . ? I would rather lose in the pits than on the course because we are the only ones to ever hear the BS handed down from "whomever".
I drove up at my condo after being light in OB last year to screams from the balconies Pier 57 ! Pier 57 ! All the fans see is the course .
Good luck to all !

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so with all that being said about fridays drivers meeting and an awarness on props WHY was their still a grey area on the props either they were LEGAL OR NOT please dont think there were not any politics involved because if it were anybody other than the CLASS REP you WOULD have probably been made an ( example of !!!! ) as a mater of fact the CLASS REP walked up to me 20 minuites before the start, and told me i needed to add 200 lbs to my boat after knowing it all 5 days before the race :eek:

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I don't think there is a Grey area! As per the rule book you are either at spec or you are not. I also don't think there is any political issues either. I do understand that another SVL had questionable spec props earlier in the season but I personally was not there with the micrometer watching so I will TRUST the officials decisions
MD

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George.... ERIC is the class rep and got the penalty?

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How was the spec of prop thickness determined?

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Thinner is faster but tends to throw blades which is dangerous. There is a Spec they use on the Merc. blades at different locations that they measure for thickness. At this time those are the rules that all prop manufactures must follow.
With that being said if you take a stock blade from any of the legal manufactures you will be with in OSS specs! Its when you have custom shops that thin out the blades to much to gain more speed where the problem is.
I have 12-15 props that have passed tec every race! I happen to use Throttle Up Props and Matt knows when to put the grinding wheel down and leave enough material to pass spec. and more important a reliable prop that's good for many more races and even a tune up if damaged.
We all want an advantage but shaving that last 10 thousands off is not worth it in my opinion.
Is the system perfect? NO but if OSS teams want to change it call your class reps and voice your concerns. Maybe some people want a spec for every manufacture. When do you say stop?
MD

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I happened to witness the Referees conducting the SVL Prop inspection. There were no less than three Very reputable officials performing the inspect at all times.

No funny business there. anyone doubting the results should have faith it was performed fairly.

Marc

Re: Prop Thickness
 

See Mike Tomlinsojns's LAST WORD on that issue at http://www.offshoresuperseries.com/article.php?artID=94

Capsule version:

- The prop thickness violations in Puerto Rico were rescinded. Not because the props weren't too thin. They were. The decisions were overturned due to a technicality. Herring, Hydromotive and other key propeller providers were not given the “Bravo style propeller specifications” and therefore may have been operating in the dark.

- OSS will immediately define hard & fast specs for Bravo style props (they exist for #6 style props.) They will be published on the OSS website and will be in effect for the Toronto race. If a prop fails the inspection, there will be a three minute penalty, no whining, no running to mama, no appeals, suck it up an buy a new prop. Racers are strongly encouraged to have their props checked and cleared to avoid unhappy endings.

- Drive gearcases for #6 drives may no longer be modified in any class. Please don't even THINK that means that you may muck around with a Bravo type gearcase. OSS Tech Rule OSSCL, OSSV, and OSSVL #15 has always said :"The original shape of the gearcase is not to be altered. Other modifications to the outdrive(s) or its components require written OSS approval. Changes to #6SSM drives are not allowed." Altered drives will result in a DQ. NO MODIFICATIONS. And to those who ask how a modified gearcase is detected: It's like pornography. You know it when you see it. Especially if your name is Bob Teague.

Re: Prop Thickness
 

I was wondering when the gear case issue was going to come up. I have had racers ask if we "blueprint" gear cases, like some other shops do. My response has always been that the gear case can not be modified in any way from original. It can be repaired, of course, but not thinned to the minimum thickness.

If I am missing something let me know. I don't want to give racers misinformation.

Matt

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Matt: You were right, and now you are even more right. No mods. Those who have them are encouraged to contact their friendly gearcase provider.

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WOW Hummmmmmmmmm..............

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RS...if your gonna get involved in the rules and racing politics, it would be nice for everyone to know who you are. It gives you more credibility. and doesnt appear as if you are trying to start a battle.

to answer your qusetion....IMCO and WHM were allowed 200 lb weight handicaps. last year to help them be more competitive.

Apparently, the allowance was not carried into this season and the guys hasd to scramble to make weight.

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Eric ran his prop all last year and just assumed it was of legal specs. He found out the hard way that it was not. It has nothing to do with pleading ignorance. We try to follow the rule book very carefully. Some people try to stretch the rules to their advantage and others are very careful to stay within the rules. Eventually, the ones who stretch the rules, get caught. And when they do, they will lose more than just one race.

The prop issue was a gray area and only two of WHM's blades were of questionable tolerance unbeknownst (sp) to Eric. Therefore, recinding the penalty and making it known," NO MORE", was the best way to address the situation. I applaud everyone involved for their professionalism in the handling in the matter.

Thankyou OSS

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No prob John...I dont see how we can hold the manufacturers liable.

They should get a copy of the specs when the props are ordered and adhere to them. If the props dont meet the specs provided to them, they should take them back and make new ones.

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As long as manual lab finishing is allowed, one cannot hold a manufacturer liable for a process the manufacturer does not control. The responsibility lies on the captain of the boat. If you want to hold a manufacturer responsible, then you automaticlally plead for original, un-modified equipment and hence no lab finishing.

Re: Prop Thickness
 

[QUOTE=TheBS]See Mike Tomlinsojns's LAST WORD on that issue at http://www.offshoresuperseries.com/article.php?artID=94

Capsule version:

- The prop thickness violations in Puerto Rico were rescinded.

Hummm, well I guess things have not changed much.

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With all the discussion by the teams and the board the rules were not specific enough! I am happy to give the 3rd place back to Eric. They earned it. Congrats Eric Ill get you next time.
And to the OSS board thank you for having the interest of the racers come first. You took the time and saw there was a flaw in the rules,fixed it, and as hard as it is to go back and change the standings you did!!! It takes a big person to admit there was a mistake. You all took the hard road less traveled.
Thank you,Thank you,Thank you
MD

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RS please post your name and boat you are affilated with or DO NOT POST IN THIS SECTION........

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RS many of your posts seem negitive towards people and organizations. The racers area is supposed to be just that an area where RACERS get there daily does of info, not comments from non racers.

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RACERS ONLY FORUM!

What part of that don't you get? Now, Good Bye :D

Re: Prop Thickness
 

SO what happens to the teams who own props that are not up to spec? Are they allowed to run them the rest of the year or do they have to buy new props?

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they will have to buy new props.

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Poker runners get a chance to run some really "labbed" wheels!!!!

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Good point Mark, Fountain sends retail boat out the door with thinner props then are allowed on the race course.

Manufactures are trying to build the fast possible props they can build for their customers, and not to specs on the different race organizations. Their business isn't base on racers so I think that is a big part of the problem.

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Go to bed Frank, you have a race tomorrow

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As a past racer, inspector, fan and hopefully soon racing again this thread is confusing me.

I hope it will not get deleted but in the interim I have some thoughts and questions.

I hear that since few if any of the OSS boats run Mercury’s Bravo propeller why use the specification for it?

In fact why use Mercury’s specification at all?

In OSS competition Mercury Racing Propellers do not have a good record of victory’s with exception of the cat outboards where they are all but mandated and a few sporadic Supercat finishes.

If you were to total the amount of wins in OSS on a percentage basis it would be very low most probably under 10% without the cat outboards.

I'm told the Mini Me team and its previous owner have run the same prop since 2002 what changed, the specification or the process?

Based upon what the racers choose to run it appears that both Hering and Hydramotive have better designs and castings. Why not let the leaders set the specification rather then the sponsor on there own props?

I know you will say this is none of my business but you guys posted it changed positions and posted it again. I realize you feel OSS is beyond questioning but it is really confusing to the fansand future racers and I bet current racers.

thanks for readingand any answers, Mike Carter

Re: Prop Thickness
 

The new OSS Tech Rules are available on the OSS Website at http://www.offshoresuperseries.com/rules.php
These Tech Rules have been written with input of and approved by all OSS class reps. The rules are in effect immediately. The Toronto Race will be held under these rules.

Most important changes:

Prop thickness specifications have been added for Bravo type props. They already existed for #6 type props.
Drawings have been added that show what is being measured where
The 6 week availability rule has been removed.

Comment: Please note that failure to meet these specifications constitutes a failed technical inspection. And it will result in what failed technical inspections result in: A DQ.

OSS Racers are strongly encouraged to have their props checked and measured before the next race. OSS Racers are also encouraged to communicate these rules to their propeller vendors and lab finishers.

Also please note that the gearcase issue needed no change to the Technical Rules. Except for the Extreme classes, gearcase modifications were not allowed and will not be allowed. Failure to observe this rule will result in … see above.

Teeth may be grinded, lower units may not.

Re: Prop Thickness
 

"Teeth may be grinded, lower units may not."

Grinded??? Polished...same thing or different?

I sent an inquiry to Mike Tomlinson asking about drive modifications. May dings and scratches be removed? May a drived that came shiny when new be polished to retain its original luster? Inquiring minds want to know and since we are now splitting hairs, we need to know.

I'll post his response.

Allen

Re: Prop Thickness
 

The idea of this and all other OSS rules has always been to stop the hair splitting. And the recent tightening of the rules was the result of too much hairsplitting.

As far as drives go, they must be unmodified. "The original shape of the gearcase is not to be altered. Other modifications to the outdrive(s) or its components require written OSS in approval."

If in doubt: Approach an OSS inspector and get it in writing.

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There is a simple clause in the rule book on page 4 of the Technical rules that avoids the hair spliting.
"IF THIS RULEBOOK DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY ALLOW SOMETHING,
THEN YOU SHOULD ASSUME THAT IT IS ILLEGAL.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED."

I believe something similar was in the old APBA rulebook and is in the SBI/APBA rulebook.

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A lot of people forget about page 4! I have heard many people say: It doesn't say we cant do it in the rules. Very few times have I ever heard someone say: I wasn't sure so I got written permission to proceed with my idea. This is why people are now splitting hairs. Maybe,just maybe if we all did a little more homework and spent as much time and money as the boats in the front of the pack we would have better results. Me included
MD :eek: