Wow...drama queens.....
11-28-2012 | 01:09 PM
#41
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,771
Likes: 1
From: Sudbury Ontario
Key word being 'supposedly'. You continue to post your dribble based only on heresay or portions of a story posted by 'someone' on a website. You're a dousche-bag. I can only hope to have the opportunity to tell you to your face someday.
Jo has conducted himself with more composure throughout all of this than any of you pretenders. Certainly more than I ever could. I'd have been on my way to your house long ago if I were him. You actually had the nerve to imply that this boat was manufactured with lower standards than Pantera is known for. Again...'dousche-bag' comes to mind.
And to whoever it was that made the comment about Jo buying his kid a go-kart and a new truck.....wow. How about you tell Jo what he CAN buy his kid you pretentious prick. Should he drive a Pinto to work every day? Would that make him a better person?
Don't get on some pedestal acting like you guys give a **** about any of this. You're taking advantage of an opportunity to talk **** about somebody just to satisfy your selfish need to make other people out to be worse than yourselves. A means of justifying your ****ty existence. I blame your Mom's...they obviously didn't hug you enough or teach you how to treat others as you would like to be treated.
Things you're saying based off dribble on a website are affecting people's lives. Grow up you jag-off's.
Jo has conducted himself with more composure throughout all of this than any of you pretenders. Certainly more than I ever could. I'd have been on my way to your house long ago if I were him. You actually had the nerve to imply that this boat was manufactured with lower standards than Pantera is known for. Again...'dousche-bag' comes to mind.
And to whoever it was that made the comment about Jo buying his kid a go-kart and a new truck.....wow. How about you tell Jo what he CAN buy his kid you pretentious prick. Should he drive a Pinto to work every day? Would that make him a better person?
Don't get on some pedestal acting like you guys give a **** about any of this. You're taking advantage of an opportunity to talk **** about somebody just to satisfy your selfish need to make other people out to be worse than yourselves. A means of justifying your ****ty existence. I blame your Mom's...they obviously didn't hug you enough or teach you how to treat others as you would like to be treated.
Things you're saying based off dribble on a website are affecting people's lives. Grow up you jag-off's.
11-28-2012 | 01:10 PM
#42
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,771
Likes: 1
From: Sudbury Ontario
with this post you've placed yourself in the same group you loathe.
Maybe you can't grasp the big picture. There is a long history of pantera taking money and not delivering on their promise. Now why would anybody leave an unfinished boat (that was supposedly paid for 100%) in panteras possession? Let alone try to steer another "fellow boater" to do business with them? Scott has no control after he signs the title over. Would you post the same crap if in eight months you were reading how someone else handed over 10k to finish a boat but instead sits unfinished needing another 5k?
I have nothing personal against jo or pepe. But bad business is exactly that! I also have no beef with scott. If he is legit i hope he sells his boat and wish him well on the new venture.
Maybe you can't grasp the big picture. There is a long history of pantera taking money and not delivering on their promise. Now why would anybody leave an unfinished boat (that was supposedly paid for 100%) in panteras possession? Let alone try to steer another "fellow boater" to do business with them? Scott has no control after he signs the title over. Would you post the same crap if in eight months you were reading how someone else handed over 10k to finish a boat but instead sits unfinished needing another 5k?
I have nothing personal against jo or pepe. But bad business is exactly that! I also have no beef with scott. If he is legit i hope he sells his boat and wish him well on the new venture.
11-28-2012 | 01:25 PM
#43
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 93
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
First of all....I haven't 'defended' anyone's actions. To the contrary I've chosen NOT to because it's none of my business. What I have done is call out the pretenders who peddle opinions based on here-say as fact. It's not fair to anyone. I like everything I've personally seen of Jo although he and I have never spoken. I've witnessed his actions and heard stories from his friends and customers that have left me with a great level of respect for the guy. I've always loved the boats...anyone who knows anything about performance boats would be an idiot not to.
But since you brought it up. I'd be curious to know how many of those are actually customer-related lawsuits? The same plaintiff names probably appear multiple times in the database...discount the redundant ones. And in how many of those cases did they have judgements against them?
I've been self employed for 20 years. Anyone can file a lawsuit. Let me run a very common scenario by you that actually happens quite often in a business where people are spending a lot of money on 'toys'...especially built-to-order ones. This isn't a scenario unique to boats...it happens with custom cars, motorcycles, etc. ALL the time. I've been involved in it...more than once....and I've never dealt with a product that has such a high value as a performance boat. You have to understand....many people think they have money...very few actually do when it comes time to pay the bill.
So...the scenario....customer wants a product. Customer puts down a deposit on the product. Builder orders the parts and sets up his shop schedule accordingly. Half way into the build, customer decides he doesn't want the product or wants to change his order. If it isn't possible to 'change' his order, since he hasn't taken 'delivery' of anything he thinks he should get his money back. Builder says...sorry...but I spent that money getting this build started. Oh by the way...the builder has also had to turn down or delay other jobs because he's working on this one. Customer's wife isn't happy when she finds out her husband spent a bunch of their money on a 'toy'. Customer gets an attorney. Attorney files lawsuit. The case rarely goes to trial and 9 times out of 10 the builder is forced to settle and lose his azz just to be done with it.
I'm not saying that's always the case...but I promise you it's happened. The fact that there are lawsuits doesn't necessarily mean you're dealing with a bad business. When a deal goes 'bad' it's usually the result of numerous factors. Either party rarely sets out to 'screw' the other but often times the end result can appear that way to an outsider.
11-28-2012 | 01:28 PM
#44
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,096
Likes: 131
From: Ohio
Ajfisher.......right now we are planning on doing Boyne next July with some friends as long as everything works out so hopefully we can meet up. I will be there with my second Pantera and have loved them both.
11-28-2012 | 01:37 PM
#45
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Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Grand Rapids, MI
11-28-2012 | 02:30 PM
#46
Member #154
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 8,004
Likes: 1,086
From: SW CT & Long Island Sound
Some of us have been first hand witnesses to a build. I wouldn't dismiss the reasons for many members reactions or skepticism on this subject.
11-28-2012 | 02:31 PM
#47
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 965
Likes: 123
This would be like me showing you pictures of all the hot chicks I've been with. If taken at face value you would think I was a stud. However....I can assure you that is not the case.
First of all....I haven't 'defended' anyone's actions. To the contrary I've chosen NOT to because it's none of my business. What I have done is call out the pretenders who peddle opinions based on here-say as fact. It's not fair to anyone. I like everything I've personally seen of Jo although he and I have never spoken. I've witnessed his actions and heard stories from his friends and customers that have left me with a great level of respect for the guy. I've always loved the boats...anyone who knows anything about performance boats would be an idiot not to.
But since you brought it up. I'd be curious to know how many of those are actually customer-related lawsuits? The same plaintiff names probably appear multiple times in the database...discount the redundant ones. And in how many of those cases did they have judgements against them?
I've been self employed for 20 years. Anyone can file a lawsuit. Let me run a very common scenario by you that actually happens quite often in a business where people are spending a lot of money on 'toys'...especially built-to-order ones. This isn't a scenario unique to boats...it happens with custom cars, motorcycles, etc. ALL the time. I've been involved in it...more than once....and I've never dealt with a product that has such a high value as a performance boat. You have to understand....many people think they have money...very few actually do when it comes time to pay the bill.
So...the scenario....customer wants a product. Customer puts down a deposit on the product. Builder orders the parts and sets up his shop schedule accordingly. Half way into the build, customer decides he doesn't want the product or wants to change his order. If it isn't possible to 'change' his order, since he hasn't taken 'delivery' of anything he thinks he should get his money back. Builder says...sorry...but I spent that money getting this build started. Oh by the way...the builder has also had to turn down or delay other jobs because he's working on this one. Customer's wife isn't happy when she finds out her husband spent a bunch of their money on a 'toy'. Customer gets an attorney. Attorney files lawsuit. The case rarely goes to trial and 9 times out of 10 the builder is forced to settle and lose his azz just to be done with it.
I'm not saying that's always the case...but I promise you it's happened. The fact that there are lawsuits doesn't necessarily mean you're dealing with a bad business. When a deal goes 'bad' it's usually the result of numerous factors. Either party rarely sets out to 'screw' the other but often times the end result can appear that way to an outsider.
First of all....I haven't 'defended' anyone's actions. To the contrary I've chosen NOT to because it's none of my business. What I have done is call out the pretenders who peddle opinions based on here-say as fact. It's not fair to anyone. I like everything I've personally seen of Jo although he and I have never spoken. I've witnessed his actions and heard stories from his friends and customers that have left me with a great level of respect for the guy. I've always loved the boats...anyone who knows anything about performance boats would be an idiot not to.
But since you brought it up. I'd be curious to know how many of those are actually customer-related lawsuits? The same plaintiff names probably appear multiple times in the database...discount the redundant ones. And in how many of those cases did they have judgements against them?
I've been self employed for 20 years. Anyone can file a lawsuit. Let me run a very common scenario by you that actually happens quite often in a business where people are spending a lot of money on 'toys'...especially built-to-order ones. This isn't a scenario unique to boats...it happens with custom cars, motorcycles, etc. ALL the time. I've been involved in it...more than once....and I've never dealt with a product that has such a high value as a performance boat. You have to understand....many people think they have money...very few actually do when it comes time to pay the bill.
So...the scenario....customer wants a product. Customer puts down a deposit on the product. Builder orders the parts and sets up his shop schedule accordingly. Half way into the build, customer decides he doesn't want the product or wants to change his order. If it isn't possible to 'change' his order, since he hasn't taken 'delivery' of anything he thinks he should get his money back. Builder says...sorry...but I spent that money getting this build started. Oh by the way...the builder has also had to turn down or delay other jobs because he's working on this one. Customer's wife isn't happy when she finds out her husband spent a bunch of their money on a 'toy'. Customer gets an attorney. Attorney files lawsuit. The case rarely goes to trial and 9 times out of 10 the builder is forced to settle and lose his azz just to be done with it.
I'm not saying that's always the case...but I promise you it's happened. The fact that there are lawsuits doesn't necessarily mean you're dealing with a bad business. When a deal goes 'bad' it's usually the result of numerous factors. Either party rarely sets out to 'screw' the other but often times the end result can appear that way to an outsider.
Go ahead...applaud Pantera. Give them 100% down. Talk to us about how you feel 12 months after that.
Your comparison of hot chicks to this situation shows your immaturity and lack of experience.
Last edited by pasquesi; 11-28-2012 at 02:33 PM.
11-28-2012 | 02:57 PM
#48
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,696
Likes: 200
From: North Carolina
after, all- he's just a guy tryin' to sell his boat, right?
Last edited by jayboat; 11-29-2012 at 08:20 AM.
11-28-2012 | 03:26 PM
#49
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 18,696
Likes: 200
From: North Carolina
I don't know Scott, and I'm not saying he's a bad guy and would not want to see an innocent person hurt, but it looks like something hinky is going on here
and even the people who made the deal may have forgotten details since that day was done.
11-28-2012 | 05:49 PM
#50
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,839
Likes: 21
From: MID MI
