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Velocity 22 Resurrection
The level of quality people accept nowadays is appalling. Does anybody have any gratitude for craftsmanship anymore?
This poor boat was abused. But ill fix it right! Preface: My first boat, a Bayliner 1950 Capri that I had restored and built a 355 SBC with TBI and other goodies, was rear ended on the trailer July 5th 2013 on the way to the lake. I had fallen in love with the early Velocity 22 boats but could not afford or access one here in the mid west. After the death of the bayliner I began searching for boats and found what dreams are made of... sort of. After discussing terms with the seller, we made a road trip from Kansas to Washington D.C.. 2351 miles, lots of coffee, and driving shifts with my wife, I'm now the proud owner of a 1987 Velocity 22. The Plan: I'll be restoring the boat entirely and changing the rigging and power plant. Currently I have from my old boat, a 355 SBC with vortec heads, flat top pistons, cam and TBI with 2" bores. The Alpha One will be replaced with a Bravo One X or XR. After I recoup from the expenses, I may build a supercharged fuel injected 383 and add hydraulic steering. The Boat: 1987 Velocity 22, 350 SBC, Alpha One Gen 1, Trim tabs, three rear bucket seats, two front bucket seats. Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_037t.png |
The Condition: The boat had a terrible stance on the trailer. It bounced and slammed so much it was slightly scary. The interior was well used, but not horrible, the bottoms of the seats were cracked and waterlogged. There were also many poorly maintained bits of the mechanical items.
Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_001t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_002t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_003t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_004t.png Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_015t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_016t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_017t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_018t.png |
Looks like a great project! I anticipate you are going to de rig and check the stringers and transom?
I'm finishing up a project and got really lucky the water only reached the engine stringers(due to the design of the boat). But all in all it was a great learning experience replacing the transom and stringers with some awesome products that are readily available these days. Good to see you are saving this boat. Good luck! |
I love the design of the interior. Nothing like a good project!! If your staying under 400 hp (which should make that boat fly) Its a small light boat. I think an alpha would live. Sure a bravo is stronger, but the alpha will be faster. Take the money for the bravo transom and drive and use it for steering.
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Currently I have the floor and stringers exposed, they're toast. More on that coming...
When I get to rebuilding the engine (383 sc fi hopefully, although I'm entertaining a 6.2 ls) I'm targeting 650hp +/-. Id like to have a stout drive in any case just for peace of mind. Towing The bunks were the first items to be replaced. I then re-positioned the boat for better weight distribution and adjusted the wench so the eyelet locked under the roller. Id like to add additional bunks and move existing ones to sit under the stringers better as the bottom was deformed from the way it sat. While I was at it, I replaced all the wiring and lighting for the trailer. All submersible LED lights and the wiring was soldered and heatshrink/RTV silicone sealed. The whimpy noodle chains were also replaced with large gauge high vis chains and linkage. Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_009t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_010t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_011t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_038t.png Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_005t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_006t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_007t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_008t.png |
Intermission...
I bought myself a sweet new ride. With the boat as a catalyst, we bought our first house in December and renovated a couple rooms, putting the Velocity on hold. But it now has its own shop where I no longer have to work out in the elements. The boat fits with the drive up and a couple inches to spare. Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_036t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_039t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_040t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_041t.png |
Well at least you have your priorities straight! Congrats on the new home and garage to bring this old girl back to life. You will have a long winter to revile in the joys if stringer/transom removal and all that is fiberglass :) . Thanks for sharing.
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Super cool old boat!
Glad you are saving a great old boat and there is nothing like knowing every minute detail of a boat from a "nut and bolt" type rebuild. |
Thanks! It's nice to have a place to call our own, even though it adds to my plate of things to work on...
I agree, it's an awesome boat. I love the look and lines not to mention the history of the design. In my opinion its the best out there. Interior Removal Sigh.. where to start? At first I was upset, but after getting it all out there and seeing the guts of the vessel I'm now excited to know it will all be totally rebuilt to the best of my ability. The wood on the interior was crumbling. And the hack jobs the previous owner(s) did was horrendous. The floor had a second plywood overlay, not even coated in resin. And the original floor, that was droopy, had patches of its own. Underneath it all was as bad as it gets... Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_044t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_045t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_042t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_043t.png Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_046t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_048t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_047t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_049t.png |
Stringer Reveal
Opening up the floor revealed just how badly this boat has been treated. They probably had wake jumping competitions or something. Most of the stringer ribs were all sheared from the hull and no longer had wood within them! The stringers themselves were rotten from the cockpit to the transom. This all explained the deformation on the bottom of the hull. Before I proceeded any further I decided to build a cradle for the boat to raise it off the trailer bunks and keep the hull square. There was an immediate improvement in the hull, the bump was gone, woohoo! I went ahead and finished removing the rest of the floor and gas tank. I drafted up a model of the existing structural design to get some ideas to improve rigidity. There is a clear weak point where the engine bay stringers and hull stringers meet (white board in the 3D model). Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_050t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_051t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_052t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_053t.png Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_054t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_055t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_056t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_057t.png Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_058t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_059t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_060t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/ve...tringers_t.png |
That's all for now. Hoping to pick up some marine plywood and start mocking up the replacement boards next weekend. Ill also be replacing the transom while Its all in pieces.
What does everyone think about laminating two 1/4" sheets of plywood for the stringers? I read that laminated cores are stronger than a single piece. Plus I can stagger the pieces instead of having a weak point like the pink boards above. I'd like to just extend the stringers all the way to the transom, but I need to make sure the engine will have enough room and mount up properly. |
Looks like it was built to take a pounding ,that's a respectable structure for a 22'small block boat .the mounting of the trim tabs looks very odd in pics .don't forget the science with tab hydrolics ,you don't want a tab failure at 70 in a 22 footer ,likely result in ejection of all occupants.
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I really like what you're doing; excellent work! I had a 1984 velocity and did some work on replacing the floor and bulkheads with marine ply and west system epoxy. If I had to do it again, I would used vinylester resins. Velocity builds their VR1 with marine composite coosa boards and others have recommended using coosa composites for the stringers/bulkheads and marine ply for the transom.
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Awesome project. My fever didn't have the floor or stringer issues hours has but it definitely had the interior rot problems we replaced EVERY piece of wood on the interior panels. But keep after it it'll be worth it in the long run.
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That's my Old Boat!!! Over 20 years ago I Bought it from the original owner in 1991 and sold it in 1995 to a guy in Baltimore.When i bought it it was called Cant Touch This was on rear between the exhaust tips, I peeled that off and named it Terminal Velocity as the Tom Cruise movie was out around that time. I bought a Brand New twin axle White Steel Myco when I had it, I'm sure that has rusted and scraped over 2 decades later. The engine compartment used to have a Clean Big Block with Headers (not manifolds) and grey carpet with a bulk head for storage on both sides... My buddy did the interior with the 3 person back bolster but never put the extra layer of plywood down that you mentioned?? I rebuilt the 454 it had in it and remember redoing the hatch like 4" taller and building the box so the flame arrestor would fit with he taller intake we put on it. It was fast back in the day, looking back it was pretty stupid having 500 plus HP in front of a an Alpha with no external steering.. I only blew one drive over the years but remember breaking several couplers.. The boat would throw a roostertail like a jet boat. Great to see you tearing it apart and doing a full resto on it, good luck. I will try and find some pictures of it and post them if I find any!!
And yes I was 21 when I bought that boat and I beat the ever loving **** out of it!! Great times were had on that boat for sure!! Patrick |
Originally Posted by bkaltec
(Post 4131137)
That's all for now. Hoping to pick up some marine plywood and start mocking up the replacement boards next weekend. Ill also be replacing the transom while Its all in pieces.
What does everyone think about laminating two 1/4" sheets of plywood for the stringers? I read that laminated cores are stronger than a single piece. Plus I can stagger the pieces instead of having a weak point like the pink boards above. I'd like to just extend the stringers all the way to the transom, but I need to make sure the engine will have enough room and mount up properly. Looks like a ton of work, but it going to be a great boat that you will have tremendous pride for when finished. |
Wow, Kinda neat, i have one of those tore down just a bit further than yours, equally as rotten, and right here close by, Two Velocities gettin the redo. Spent the better part of yesterday grinding. I also have an long block LS1 sittin here if you think you need that to get started on your engine plan. Mine I am switching to Outboard to run Class 7 OPA.
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Originally Posted by Spicy
(Post 4131265)
That's my Old Boat!!! Over 20 years ago I Bought it from the original owner in 1991 and sold it in 1995 to a guy in Baltimore.When i bought it it was called Cant Touch This was on rear between the exhaust tips, I peeled that off and named it Terminal Velocity as the Tom Cruise movie was out around that time. I bought a Brand New twin axle White Steel Myco when I had it, I'm sure that has rusted and scraped over 2 decades later. The engine compartment used to have a Clean Big Block with Headers (not manifolds) and grey carpet with a bulk head for storage on both sides... My buddy did the interior with the 3 person back bolster but never put the extra layer of plywood down that you mentioned?? I rebuilt the 454 it had in it and remember redoing the hatch like 4" taller and building the box so the flame arrestor would fit with he taller intake we put on it. It was fast back in the day, looking back it was pretty stupid having 500 plus HP in front of a an Alpha with no external steering.. I only blew one drive over the years but remember breaking several couplers.. The boat would throw a roostertail like a jet boat. Great to see you tearing it apart and doing a full resto on it, good luck. I will try and find some pictures of it and post them if I find any!!
And yes I was 21 when I bought that boat and I beat the ever loving **** out of it!! Great times were had on that boat for sure!! Patrick Bilgerat; I've been to loto once with my 18' and it was a nightmare. I can't imagine a 22 being much better. Good luck out there and be safe, that wake is crazy. I need to look into the LS stuff a bit more, I seen there are a couple options for headers/manifolds, but not much to choose from yet. Gotta find a donor vehicle for the electronics and wire harness as well. |
Most of your sub structure damage might be from poor stringer encapsulation. Velocity along with other builders have had a lot of problems at points with their boats rotting out. It all comes down to improper drainage and not completely encapsulating the wood in resin. You just need a area with pin holes in the glass work to get wet over a period of time and just like a tree the water will diffuse and eventually rot into chewing tobacco. Coosa is great but it all comes down to what you're looking to do with the boat and price.
In my opinion don't bother thinking about a big block, in the 22's it puts the center of gravity too high, at speed they will get sketchy quick. Steve Step designed the 22's for small block's but many mild BBC found their way in them a lot. I know of a local boat that had a healthy BBC for awhile and over 100mph the boat was pretty dangerous. The owner pulled the setup, put in a healthy 400CI small block and the boat ran as fast and much more stable. Make sure you call down to velocity and talk to Steve while he is still there to get the proper x-dimension measurements. |
Ther is a marine conversion ls thread buried with a lot of good info...
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I had 88 22 with a bravo, no steering, 502 535hp, cmi headers and it ran 88 mph on gps back in the early 90's. you had to drive it but it ran like hell. you will just fine if you decide to go with a big block. good luck with the build and nice boat, one of my all time favorites
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No big block, far too heavy and deprecated. Big inch small block will be easy because of the parts availability.
An LS would be my preference, fuel injected, refined, awesomeness! But expensive... Drive Removal Removed the drive this afternoon. Also picked up six sheets of 1/2" marine plywood. Still need to locate a local fiberglass supplier, but I may end up ordering the fabric online. Id like to be able to take out the transom and have it rebuilt by the weekend. Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_061t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_062t.png |
Order your glass stuff from us composites.
I'd build a wicked stroker small block too! |
Yeah you can't deny the technology and cool factor of the LS platform. I had a ERL 370ci motor with a modified precision 88mm turbo with billet upgrade making 1,200 hp. The ERL blocks are the best of the best if you know LS stuff. They re engineered them the correct way.
The only thing I don't like about factory LS blocks is the bottom portion of the block rails that hang too far down creating excessive windage. These aftermarket companies remove this and install a custom oil pan. But in a marine motor it isn't at all a deal breaker. If I build another motor next year it will be a large CI LS for sure. Looking forward to seeing your build progress. |
Been researching the LS engines, an LS1 or LS2 can reach my power goals pretty easily. I may end up putting in what I have now to get me going, but I still get a bravo before hand. Hardin Marine has some good options for LS exhaust, both manifolds and headers! But at $4k the headers would need to be an upgrade afterward. Due to the expense in any case, an LS and hydraulic steering may be a few years down the road.
Transom Got my glass in last Monday, decided to wait and start until the weekend. I built some clamps to help press the boards to the back of the hull, still need to run some supports for them. I'll also make some bolt holes where the exhaust and drive protrude so I can clamp those areas as well. The transom removal took a lot longer than I anticipated, nearly a whole day. After it was out I ground down the extra glass. I left off today with fitting the first board, I think I'm going to glass them in one at a time. Seems easier than trying to monkey around 3 laminated together and clamping them in, though it will take longer. Hope to get them in this week and start on the stringers next weekend. Click... http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_063t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_064t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_065t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_066t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_067t.png http://www.aethergames.com/images/velocity/vel_068t.png |
An LS1 or LS2 won't see 650hp. Trust me you want cubes. As stated, I've toyed with some large power LS motors. Toss a turbo or blower on it, then it will rock! Even a 6.0 or 6.2 LS(N/A) isn't gonna have the torque a BBC has. Everyone gets so spun out on HP, when torque turns props and is the most important value. There's a reason LS motors aren't the big thing in marine applications, they are expensive and don't offer large displacement. Not dogging the idea, I like it, but for a lower power goal naturally aspirated. Interesting to see what you end up with.
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Supercharged for sure. Thats one of the main reasons it'll have to wait, need to build it as intended the first time. Origionally i was looking to build a blown 383 sbc, but theyre very dated and heavier. Until then the SBC on hand will do.
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Just my .02 but full hyd. steering should be at the top of your list.
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Originally Posted by Borgie
(Post 4138196)
An LS1 or LS2 won't see 650hp. Trust me you want cubes. As stated, I've toyed with some large power LS motors. Toss a turbo or blower on it, then it will rock! Even a 6.0 or 6.2 LS(N/A) isn't gonna have the torque a BBC has. Everyone gets so spun out on HP, when torque turns props and is the most important value. There's a reason LS motors aren't the big thing in marine applications, they are expensive and don't offer large displacement. Not dogging the idea, I like it, but for a lower power goal naturally aspirated. Interesting to see what you end up with.
I'll take a 525HP at 5800rpm small block any day over a 525hp at 5200rpm big block In a little, lite boat that responds to everything and anything. A low-mid 300hp 'nothing' small block will go over 70 in one of these boats. That should tell you. |
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Nice work, how many layers of glass and plywood?
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Hull
1.5ozMat Ply 1.5ozMat Ply 1.5ozMat Ply 1708tab 1708sheet |
Lookin good man
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http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ls-engine.html
all you ever wanted to know about swapping an ls engine. I'm in the middle of my swap right now. no its not cheap but these engines are far more efficient than any sbc could ever hope to be. I'm running the factory ecu with a retune. you can easliy remove the un-needed parts off the harness. tons of info on that as well. |
I don't see the benefit of using a small block, it will cost substantially more money to build a small block over a big block. if it's weight savings you are looking for, it will not relate to a boat like if does in a car. if you put 20 gallons in the tank then you just threw your weight savings out the window or add a third passenger or anchor and chain. there is no substitute for cubic inches and its much easier to build hp. if you just simply want a sbc then by all means go for it and enjoy your build.
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In a 22 foot boat balance is extremely important, and being this hull was designed with a small block in mind, throwing the extra weight of a big block in the very rear of the boat is kind of a big deal.
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I agree. I can't answer for that boat, but it took me two years of moving batteries into the right spot to get the azz end of my boat (20ft, not a Velocity) from skipping around in just mid 50's mph. My boat is so sensitive to rear weight, that when I put the drive back 6" it started skipping around again. Very dangerous in mine.
I can only run full speed under 1/4" tank or it skips. I call it skipping because it worse than dancing and chine walking. Once I figured it out, it remains calm 14/15mph faster than that. Yes, I've tried 5 quazzilion props which can also help or aggrevate it. Wit these little boats you need to hear what it's telling you and follow what it says. |
One suggestion for you is when you put your floor in you might want to make the section over the fuel tank removable. I had to replace the floor in my 22 velocity and because the tank was in good shape I made that section of floor over the tank removable in case I ever needed to get to the tank again. Instead of carpet or paint I used a product called dekadence that is really nice but pricey. My 22 velocity with a 468 450hp runs right at 78mph. If I hadn't have had Stellings headers I would have seriously thought about a SBC.
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Originally Posted by donzi matt
(Post 4155825)
In a 22 foot boat balance is extremely important, and being this hull was designed with a small block in mind, throwing the extra weight of a big block in the very rear of the boat is kind of a big deal.
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