Scarab 22 - how wet and how rough is the ride?
10-07-2016, 05:21 PM
#22
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My buddy has a very clean Doral 23 Phazar. 454 with a bravo I'm sure you could have for 9k but you have to drive 20hrs to get it.
10-08-2016, 08:47 AM
#23
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As sort of expected, no reply on the 29. Or anything else I inquired about via craigslist....grr.
Erik1976, where would that boat be? I'm not opposed to a drive or having it shipped.
Erik1976, where would that boat be? I'm not opposed to a drive or having it shipped.
12-24-2016, 10:52 AM
#24
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Hey all....so bringing this back alive, I think I've finally settled that I'll be picking up a Scarab 22 over the other boats. Regardless of anything else, I've always had a love for anything
Scarab and I think if I buy anything else I'll always wish I had a Scarab logo on it. Probably a rather foolish way to make a boat decision, but it's what I want. I'm also finding that it's a buyers market for these boats right now...there are a bunch of them for sale and none of them are selling.
So here's my next question: I'm currently looking at a couple different ones, and they all have the 7.4 big block. Down the road if I decide I'd like more power or if the old 7.4 gives out I'm looking at options for the next engine. I've been around circle track racing forever and I'm very familiar with the small blocks, but big blocks are sort of new to me. Which begs the question, if I can build a small block to give me similar power and torque to the stock big block why not go that way and save the weight? I can certainly put together a 383 that will produce well over 400hp and 450 ft/lbs for under $5000, carb to pan not including exhaust. I'd have the same $$$ in a rebuilt stock 7.4. I'd figure on saving about 300 pounds or more on the engine, then more savings with headers over the big block's cast manifolds, then if I can squeeze a little better fuel consumption I can start the day running 50 pounds or so lighter on fuel. I'd gain a little of that weight back with a closed cooling system, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that I could save 350lbs, which is more than 10% of that boats total weight.
And again, my experience is all on dirt oval tracks where we would give 2 toes and a nut to save 10% of the weight.....so am i on the wrong path thinking that it's as beneficial in a boat?
Scarab and I think if I buy anything else I'll always wish I had a Scarab logo on it. Probably a rather foolish way to make a boat decision, but it's what I want. I'm also finding that it's a buyers market for these boats right now...there are a bunch of them for sale and none of them are selling.
So here's my next question: I'm currently looking at a couple different ones, and they all have the 7.4 big block. Down the road if I decide I'd like more power or if the old 7.4 gives out I'm looking at options for the next engine. I've been around circle track racing forever and I'm very familiar with the small blocks, but big blocks are sort of new to me. Which begs the question, if I can build a small block to give me similar power and torque to the stock big block why not go that way and save the weight? I can certainly put together a 383 that will produce well over 400hp and 450 ft/lbs for under $5000, carb to pan not including exhaust. I'd have the same $$$ in a rebuilt stock 7.4. I'd figure on saving about 300 pounds or more on the engine, then more savings with headers over the big block's cast manifolds, then if I can squeeze a little better fuel consumption I can start the day running 50 pounds or so lighter on fuel. I'd gain a little of that weight back with a closed cooling system, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that I could save 350lbs, which is more than 10% of that boats total weight.
And again, my experience is all on dirt oval tracks where we would give 2 toes and a nut to save 10% of the weight.....so am i on the wrong path thinking that it's as beneficial in a boat?
12-24-2016, 11:27 AM
#25
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You have a couple things going on....
theres more than one 454. You want to find a boat that has a 454 MAGNUM not a standard 454 (365 hp vs 330hp) the hp difference isnt that much but the motors a very different. the 330 has a cast crank, small rods, itty bitty peanut port heads. the mag mot has a forged crank, bigger rods, more compression, rectangle port decent heads etc. You can easily build a lot more power out of the mag motor. (be carefull in like 87-88 merc made a 330 hp 454 for 2 years they called a magnum, it wasnt. you can tell if its hooked to an alpha drive, a magnet sticks to the intake manifold and may have a red sticker on the valve cover that says 330 hp. plastic engine cover/and or flame arrestor may also say 454/alpha.
as for bc or sbc.... depends on what you want to do. weight is not always the enemy especially regarding ride quality.
theres more than one 454. You want to find a boat that has a 454 MAGNUM not a standard 454 (365 hp vs 330hp) the hp difference isnt that much but the motors a very different. the 330 has a cast crank, small rods, itty bitty peanut port heads. the mag mot has a forged crank, bigger rods, more compression, rectangle port decent heads etc. You can easily build a lot more power out of the mag motor. (be carefull in like 87-88 merc made a 330 hp 454 for 2 years they called a magnum, it wasnt. you can tell if its hooked to an alpha drive, a magnet sticks to the intake manifold and may have a red sticker on the valve cover that says 330 hp. plastic engine cover/and or flame arrestor may also say 454/alpha.
as for bc or sbc.... depends on what you want to do. weight is not always the enemy especially regarding ride quality.
12-24-2016, 11:56 AM
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I'm only finding these boats with the 330hp version. 
That's kind of why I'm already considering the repower before I've even brought one home. Given everything I've read about the non-mag 454 I can't see any reason to try to rebuild or add power to that engine, for all of the reasons you mention. It's basically a cheap truck engine converted for reliable marine use, from what I can tell.
Plus most of the boats I'm looking at are saltwater boats, and they're all raw water cooled so I anticipate some potentially scaly internals, and whatever I'd swap in would get a freshwater system on it to save that from happening again.
But ahhhh yeah ride quality, very valid point. I know they made this boat with both SBC and BBC, anyone have an experience between them? Running in Tampa Bay and the Gulf it's very, very rare that we get flat water. The local news called today a "great boating day" with 1-2 foot seas and light chop - thats about as good as it ever gets here. I'm assuming that all things being equal (HP, torque, etc) a boat being 10% lighter should be faster, but we're not running shootouts here so if it kills the ride quality then that's kind of a stupid move on my part.
That's kind of why I'm already considering the repower before I've even brought one home. Given everything I've read about the non-mag 454 I can't see any reason to try to rebuild or add power to that engine, for all of the reasons you mention. It's basically a cheap truck engine converted for reliable marine use, from what I can tell. Plus most of the boats I'm looking at are saltwater boats, and they're all raw water cooled so I anticipate some potentially scaly internals, and whatever I'd swap in would get a freshwater system on it to save that from happening again.
But ahhhh yeah ride quality, very valid point. I know they made this boat with both SBC and BBC, anyone have an experience between them? Running in Tampa Bay and the Gulf it's very, very rare that we get flat water. The local news called today a "great boating day" with 1-2 foot seas and light chop - thats about as good as it ever gets here. I'm assuming that all things being equal (HP, torque, etc) a boat being 10% lighter should be faster, but we're not running shootouts here so if it kills the ride quality then that's kind of a stupid move on my part.
12-25-2016, 11:33 PM
#27
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I had a 96 22 Scarab with a 454MPI and then later put in a 502 MPI . I had a blast racing around in it on lakes and rivers. It will rattle your cage if the water gets very rough . The boat was always very heavy in the stern. I always thought a built small block w/ Bravo 1 drive would have been a much better choice. Much better balance. Had a friend with one that had a small block in it. It sat a few inches higher at the stern than mine with the big block.
12-26-2016, 06:04 AM
#28
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You can build a stout 355 or 383. The boat came with both big and small blocks. Another concern is handling over certain speeds. They may have limited power because the boat didn't like more. Also consider the faster you go the more you'll need. Hydraulic steering, better tabs. Stuff of that nature. Try to find a good clean one and run it and make sure you like it before you have to spend a ton of extra money.
12-27-2016, 08:37 AM
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383 was what I was thinking. That seems like a perfect engine for this boat. 400hp and 400 ft/lb isn't too hard to accomplish in a reliable package. But I've got some more learning to do, as I said I'm experienced with building these for race car applications but not marine.
I'm hoping to get a boat that I can run stock probably though summer of '17, then swap next fall if I decide I want to.
It's looking like these boats typically run low 60's stock, and are pretty commonly pushed up to 70-ish. If I can get a reliable 70 out of it now and then that's fine for me in this application. We don't need to set records, we just want to get from one island to the next a little quicker
I'm hoping to get a boat that I can run stock probably though summer of '17, then swap next fall if I decide I want to.
It's looking like these boats typically run low 60's stock, and are pretty commonly pushed up to 70-ish. If I can get a reliable 70 out of it now and then that's fine for me in this application. We don't need to set records, we just want to get from one island to the next a little quicker
12-27-2016, 09:37 AM
#30
They are not too hard to get to run close to 70 or so. They have a modified delta pad bottom which helps with that, but is also what contributes to them not being the best rough water ride out there in size category. IMO the small block package balances the boat a little bit better than a big block and ride quality doesnt really change. They are a fun boat and handle well for what they are.
