Remember Apache, Donzi, Fountain, Outerlimits and Velocity have all made MCOB boats too! OL has made 2 52's I think, one ran 90 with diesels.

Thanks, some of those, I thought were no longer available, but I should clarify.

I'm wondering not just, if they are in business and will build one when an order comes in, but if they have built and sold one or more in the past year or so? I'm guessing that very few have been sold by any builder.

Anyone know how many boats this size were built/sold in better times? Or who sold the most? I'm thinking because of the prices, this must be a really small slice of the boat market and a manufacturer selling 3/year would be doing pretty well.

I don't know how many F4's have been sold in the past year(I've heard none) but I would think that Sunsation's bread and butter are their 288s and 32s.

I think 2 f4's last year one for sure (over 100mph with 700's). Sunsation has been selling quite a few 36's.

Id venture a guess and say fountain has built the most 40-43' boats? But then again can they really be considered 40+ feet?! LOL bad joke sorry

And just to clear things up I'm not smashing on the checkmate, just passing along what I deem creditable things I've heard given the sources. We all know I'm a retard so take it for what its worth.

Just to bring this F4/Checkmate argument full circle.... There are 14-15 F4's built. All have been 700 boats except for Hull#1 (600/XR's), the "CULT" boat which had Euro Spec 662's and the 1075 boat. Shogren built one with no power and added #6's but I don't know what power went in the boat when it finally sold. Jordan/288kid is correct that one was delivered to a Michigan guy this year with 700's.

The F4 got a considerable boost in sales in the 2007-2009 era when Hideaway was selling them. Being a former Cig/OL dealer they had the client base that wanted 43 ft/100 mph boats. I believe they sold more F4's than anyone, I can think of several they built for clients including the CULT Energy boat. Their last boat was the blue/copper one (kind of a knock off of this boat's color scheme: http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o48294-en.html ) Hideaway serviced that OL for the owner so it was there frequently. Not sure what happened to the blue/copper F4, to my knowledge it was never sold and when Hideaway went under the boat was shipped back to Sunsation but was stolen/stripped along the way.

The Checkmate that started this thread is now for sale in the Classifieds for 449K (50K price drop). Boat looks great in the ad but those cabin couches really need to be redone in solid white, that stripe look cheapens the boat's appearance. Though with the lower prices on the Saber 41 and some 41 Apaches I'm not sure the CM is going anywhere anytime soon.

For 399K you can buy the 47 Spirit of Apache and still have 50K left over for maintenance/fuel and you wouldn't need to explain anything about your boat's origin like the CM owner will.

This is a video of the most recent F4 delivered to Michigan, nice boat. Don't forget to click the video settings and switch the quality to 720p or higher

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z67lYS3QNlg&feature=g-upl[/YOUTUBE]

As far as builders that have been selling boats in that range consistently, that's going to narrow your search down to Nor-Tech, Outerlimits, Cig and Sunsation

When I drove it I let the rooster tail fly high!

Thanks all, for helping me have a clearer picture of the market. I like Sunsations and the F4 and I'm glad they have been able to keep selling some.

I'm not sure this was a price drop, Maybe?. I know Matt T's write up said MSRP was $499,000. Jeff Kopec waited to post what he wanted for the boat at his dealership till after it was finished up and listed for sale. You might call that a price drop or you might say the dealer had not set his starting price? IDK

I know Apaches and Cigs(or Skater if talking Cats) hold their value better then most boats, I know allot of people will buy those brands used(I would, if I had the money). I know many would choose a proven hull too.

But I wonder what value can be placed on buying new with a warrantee on a hull, motors and drives vs any of the other used boats you might name?

That 47 Apache is a great boat, but it needs allot more power to push it. You know better then I do, how much that extra power costs to run and maintain. I think the cost of ownership of it vs the Checkmate 43 may be much higher over 3-5 yrs and that $50,000 and more will be all burned up. In fact I think they(Apaches) may be one of the least affordable V hull boats to own and keep, despite the great resale if well kept.

That said, I rather say I own an Apache then any other brand of V hull. I just need to rob a bank/win a lottery to be able to say it.

To be honest, the cost savings of buying used is going to be far more than not having a warranty on a hull/motors... and how many hulls do you hear about needing warranty work within the time of the warranty?? The deals out there are very good in the 2-300k range if you have the money... the 39 Top Guns come to mind, and also the 42X Cigs, which are going to hold their value far longer than most. It just seems that for what can be had for the price of the Checkmate or the Sunsation 43 will far outperform either for a fraction of the cost. BUT, buying new is good for the industry, and you are getting a boat that is truley yours... for some that is worth more. Are you in the market?

As far as Apache goes, they are beautiful to look at but are so far behind in technology is it really worth it? it takes an extra 500hp to run the same speeds in anything short of 6-7 footers and realistically if this is a pleasure boat how many times are you going to be out in those??

My vote goes to American Muscle II the 46 Cig, the 41 Saber Clifford, or the Blue-Silver-Green outerlimits with 1075's... which also has the carbon build up and is probably the most advanced of the three. If only i had more money I'd buy all three and do a nice comparison on Lk Michigan for ya

Save a boat load of cash over the Checkpache or F4 and buy a new 37 AT.

Used values crush new boat depreciation right now. A few years ago it was the other way around, cheaper to buy new than 1-2 year old same model. Depreciation is going to kill if this CM becomes another "Chief" powerboat one off. Shockingly I don't know if any F4's are on the market right now, it did seem for awhile there were 4-5 for sale. The Ilmor boat may still be for sale.


AM2 got sold again....Even buying used that has been a very expensive boat to own. Jeremy probably spent 350K to own that boat from maintenance to depreciation and he bought it used!

Apache is #1 for nostalgia, #1 in rough condtions and certain boats can be a tremendous value (The Chief 41 was last year at sub 80K).