When will the new 38 be ready
 

Just curious as to when the new 38 will ready. I'm glad Sunsation is stepping up in size, they do a nice job for a smaller company, they have really improved over the years and seem to have a great following. :D

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Jassman,

We're a few months out still, we're in the middle of modifying the parts and then create the buck to pull the molds. Throwing a dart, the first 409 (42') should be floating in about 9 months, maybe a little longer, maybe a little shorter. It's shaping up to be a stunning looking boat. We're confident this boat will exceed not only ours, but everyone's expectations.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Dave, you going bigger???? The 396 is now a 409?

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Dave, what is the deal with Denny no longer at Sunsation? He no doubt accelerated the changes to boats and even increased sales by signing up new dealers and now I hear he is long gone and got kicked to the curb... :( :mad:

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Thanks Dave, I know it will be nice, I know it's early, but will it have over 6' headroom like the competition, and can it accomadate triples, thanks and good luck to you guys, looking forward seeing the product. Jeff

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Jassman,

It will have 6' of head room but no space for triples but will have capability for staggered setup.

HP500efi,

Yes, Denny is no longer with us. I'm sorry for your disapointment but things just didn't work out. Denny is a great guy, no doubt about that but things were not as they may have seemed.

ccarlos,

yes the SS396 when all is said and done will be roughly 42' and named the 409. It's gonna be a barn burner and is really shaping up beautifully.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Dave, I read in PB mag that you have decided to use the Powerplay mold for this new boat? is that correct? Did the old 396 mold ever get built?

The Powerplay certainly has some good lines to it and hopefully you will have more success than they did.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

HP,

Yes we are using Powerplays 38 hull as the platform to build our 40. Dan has a very proven hull in his 38 and as well for economic reasons why we choose him. The 40 will be 42'2" with an integrated swim platform, we've already changed the exterior so much you'd never tell what boat was the base platform. As Wayne says - it's looking like a Dominator on Steroids. We raised the hull sides, opened the cockpit up, changed the deck, the fairing, the cabin entrance, the hull sides, etc., etc., etc,. We’re very pleased with the progress so far. Dave Moriarty, Wayne and the crew aren’t letting any moss grow under their feet, they’re putting in some heavy hours to move this new flagship forward to meet the huge demand.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Little confused Dave, has Sunsation reciently decided to go with this mold as a platform? I was under the impresion that the Inovator designed from scratch was testing grounds for the longer 396! Will the two hulls share any R&D?

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Jeff,

We did not purchase the 38 Powerplay molds, just a complete set of actual parts; hull, deck, liners, etc. We are changing the parts to our specs for the 409. You are right, the Innovator was the testing platform for the 396, that orignal design (and we wont drop any names here), did not work....initially. Wayne & Dave Moriarty made many, many, many changes to make that hull work. Now that Innovator hull is an EXCEPTIONAL hull, for the 32 length but nothing any longer. The 409 and 32 Innovator will be completly different, we are using some of the deck Innovator tooling and front bow portion, but thats about it.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

O.K. just have to wait now. Will it be stepped Dave. I'm not familiar with the Powerplay hull, will there be substantial differences from it? Or can you tell us?

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

I just want to see what the beast will look like. Sounds like an interesting behind the scenes story with getting the thing built too, not to mention by the time it's completed it'll be a 52 footer... :D

BTW what kind of ballpark range are we talking with a set of 525's or 575's?

Also when can we expect to be seeing the 366, or is it now the 377 and what willit look like?

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Jeff,

It is a twin stepped hull - awesome hull !!

Rick,

Loaded with standard options w/525's MSRP is low 320 range

The 366 will follow right on the heels of the 409 and both boats will look like Dominator on Steroids!!!! With lots of appetite for performance

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Any performance expectations yet with T525 setup? How about updated graphic design shots to get an idea of what to expect inside and out?

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Rick,

Other than larger coverage area, our current graphics are available, but I'm thinking most will opt for custom HEAVY graphics. Nothing to show yet on interior layout - those will be awhile as the hull and deck tooling are the main focus. I assure you the cabin will be spectacular.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

So it is a 38' PowerPlay with a streched bow (since the cabin is staying the same) and adding an integrated swim platform. Kind of sounds like a quick way to make a 38 into a 42'.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Will Sunsation use different material than powerplay? Or use a diffrent process when laying?

I have never spoken anything but great comments about Sunsation, but useing another companies hull just doesn't fit with Sunsations past. They have been inovators and experimantors, with their own product for years and years now. This decision must have come about with some other reservations.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

What Boomer 880 says raises another question of the step location & depth. The PP's forward step is 1 1/2" deep & the rear step is 2" deep, specifically located as well. Will you be improving their placement & size for the substantial boat growth & gross weight? Ed

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

With questionable results prior in working with navel architects / engineers and their related cost it made perfect sense to seek a proven hull to start with as a foundation. Dan did an outstanding job with his 38 hull bottom as many of you know and allowed us to jump start our project vs beginning from scratch with a set of plans that may have been promised to work but would have been a question up till you produce the first hull and run it. We went that avenue before with sour results. This avenue worked for Dan and us. As far as differences, there are many. The only item remaining the same will be the steps and main hull bottom. We’ve changed the hull sides, raised the freeboard on the hull sides, widened the cockpit, changed the deck, the fairing, rear hatch, dash layout, etc, etc., etc,. All the performance characteristics, CG point, strake placement, transom angle, ect, have been addressed with the length of the changes we’ve made. So this is Sunsation as far as innovative, creative styling, fit and finish, world class laminate schedules, and so on. Having a platform to start with was intuitive and practical when all avenues were considered. With Wayne & Dave Moriarty teaming up on this and exhausting the other avenues we were considering, rest assured this new flagship for us will follow the path we’ve laid in “exceeding expectations” and building powerboats we feel are “worth owning”. Thank you all for following, investigating and commenting, we listen very intently to all of you.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Guess it is time to jump into the frey here. I will be the proud owner of the first 409 out of the factory. I have been working with David, Joe and Wayne for quite sometime on this project (like about 2 years). And have openly shared my opinions with them.

I think they made a great decision going with a proven hull. When I orginally found that they were talking to PowerPlay, I did quite a bit of research on that hull since I had skin in the game. What I found out was it is reportedly by many one of the very best hulls out there. If you haven't researched PowerPlay I think you will be happy with what you find about the 33 and the 38 sport decks. Their customers remind me of Sunsation customers. Other boat enthusiasts such as the ones at HotBoat also agree that it is one of the best hulls out there.

I'm excited about the changes they are making. If you look at the PowerPlay hull, the nose comes up rather abruptly, much like a Formula. Not a bad thing, just a styling thing. By putting the Innovator nose on it, you get an aggressive look that is much more like the dominator. I was at the plant the day they put the nose up to it, and it made a huge difference in appearance.

They orginally talked about an aluminum swim platform, like lots of Florida boats used, but finally decided on an integrated fiberglass swim platform, again much like the dominator. I was also please they made that decision, although I have not seen that addition yet. (Hint Dave)

The boat is incredibly deep, a whole different feeling sitting in the cockpit that in the dominator cockpit.

As far as partnering with PowerPlay versus starting from scratch, and paying someone tons of $ to architect an unproven hull, I think they went the right way. Not to mention they went the direction that would bring the boat to market sooner, which was a concern of mine.

I've talked at length with Frank (owner of the first Innovator) and he can give you a perspective on frustration of trying to invent a new hull from scratch. :(

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Great stuff, thanks for sharing. Are there any sketches/graphics of the boats looks that are different than the one in the brochure the past year? With the wider cockpit, what is the beam expected to be and will there be chance to order an optional straight transom with the bolt-on platform?

Also, what about the 366 or 377 or whatever it will turn out to be? What differences are we talking sans the length?

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

I know Dave plans to put some pictures out at some point, but I believe they have a lot of body finishing to do before that. The beam is supposed to remain 8'6". But if you look at a PowerPlay they have a walkway around the side, much like a Sonic. When you take that off and smooth those sides to look like a dominator, it allowed them to split the cockpit mold down the middle, and widen it 4 inches. They had already done that when I was there a couple weeks ago. The mold for the cokpit is really deep, similar to an Active Thunder 37AVH, but I believe even a bit deeper. I am 6'2" and could stand up right where you enter the cabin. Once you walk in to where the windscreen meets the deck, I had to start ducking. I didn't measure it but my guess is it was still near 5 1/2 feet. My wife is only 5'3" and I believe she will be able to walk all the way to the front V-birth without ducking down. But there was a lot of bracing in the boat under the deck so I really couldn't tell for sure. But one thing for sure - it is one deep boat.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Great information. Thanks for sharing!!

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

O.K. that information is great, and welcome Mentalpause. It's great to hear an outsiders opinion. Dave, I'm sure once this boat is finished it will be a sensational boat! I don't think Sunsation would let it leave the plant if it wasn't. That was never a concern of mine.

Sounds like alot of changes out side of the running surface of the hull. This makes sense.

I guess I'll just have to wait till you guys unveil her!

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Jeff, you asked about the materials used. PowerPlay uses a foam coring versus a bulsa coring. Last time I talked to Wayne I asked the same question you are asking, and Wayne was planning to use the Sunsation laminate schedule.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Rick,

The 366 will come about much like the 288 Sunsation did out of the 32 Dominator. Once the 409 is completed we'll cut one up and make the 366, that will take a while to get to, gotta build a bunch of the 409's first and move to the new facility, then we'll start on that.

DaveSunsation

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Jesh, you know I've owned mine for over three years now, and I don't know the hull lay up! Even toured the factory last summer, and seen them build first hand. But forget. What is it?

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

I can't give you specific details on laminate schedule, but I believe they use a balsa coring, 1/2 inch in the hull sides and deck, and 3/4 inch for the running surface. Dave certainly can provide more details, or you can go to their web site, www.sunsationboats.com, go to the news articles link, and some of those hotboat and powerboat articles will have laminate schedule information in them.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

DaveSunsation...Please explain to us what you mean, when you say the PP 38' is a "proven" hull. I have not seen the 38's race history anywhere & very few have been delivered. Thank-you. Ed

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Ed,

Sorry if I was vague; I wasn't necessarily speaking about racing, we spoke with a number of owners, magazine test drivers, other manufactures, engine builders and of course Wayne spending much test time behind the wheel of one. Not one person had a negative comment on that hull bottom. We found everything “we” wanted in a hull bottom as the platform to build from. Hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding but please feel free to contact us anytime.

Sorry it took a couple days to get back with you, I left for Florida Wednesday morning and wont get back till next Wednesday and getting online where I'm staying is a chore, I'm checking when I can.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Thanks Dave and Mentalpause for sharing these little tid-bits. There's a bunch of us that can't wait to get our sights on the real deal. If it's gonna look like a Dominator on steroids then I'm hooked already.

Not sure if I'll be leaping to the 40' level just yet, but the 366 definitely is peaking my interest in the interim. I'll settle for my 32' for now, and lay in wait... :cool:

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

The boat continues to grow. Now it is getting built to accomodate staggered engines. In order to leave the cockpit room as is, another 10 inches got added to the engine compartment. So we are up to almost 43 feet. Also added a couple more inches of headroom in the cabin, so it will have tons of headroom. I believe the first one (mine) is coming out with a staggered setup. We may need to figure out a new logo instead of SS409. I believe SS427 might fit the bill, and I'm sure I can find some old Chevy flagged logos to put in the boat.

If I could only make winter go by faster.....

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Geez, sounds like it's morphing into a monster :D

What motors are you having put in? 1075's? What is the anticipated performance with your engine package of choice? Expected dry weight? Picked out any graphics yet?

And the $10k question....When do we get to see the build pics? :drool:

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Sounds like a great project. The headroom over 6'2" at the cabin bottom of step to 5'6" to beginning of V berth is what typically is found in a few of the the competitions boats. The beam is anywhere from 8'6" to 9'2". The extra inches in the engine compartment will accomodate staggerd motors and a gen set, which is all good news. Can't wait to see the finished product, sounds like a winner. :D Jeff

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

I am going with 525s to start. If I want to do something in the future it will be a good platform to build on. In the PowerPlay they are getting around 86mph in a fully loaded boat, including gen set. I'm realistically looking for 80mph, probably on a good day. My guess is the boat is coming in around 10,000 lbs, that is what Wayne is trying to keep it under.

Pictures - Dave, did you hear pictures?

As far as graphics, I think I an going with red/orange yellow, but not sure the exact graphic package. Saw this Cig on boatrader I really liked the color scheme on. Need to talk to Mitcher T more on graphics.

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Renameing shouldn't be a problem, if they don't mind the name not being a chevy engine!

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

I bet a box of donuts that at 10,000 pounds they will be lucky to hit 80 mph, let alone 86 mph... any takers?

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

And what were you told the PP weighed, to acheive that 86 m.p.h. speed? Considering that fuel weighs about 6 pounds per gallon X 250 gallons, or so... That alone is 1500 pounds. Just curious. Thanks, Ed

Re: When will the new 38 be ready
 

I could maybe understand 86 mph if the boat was 8500 pounds or less, but at 10K+ it may do well in the rough stuff, but I would think 76-80 tops with a pair of HOT 525s.

Unless you are like a certain builder that tests on the Mississippi River, where there is a 6-8 mile per hour current, real world is different. This builder will show a GPS of 75 mph, but then can never duplicate the results in other waters. It is a shame that so many builders play games with the #s. Real world versus dealer hype is always different.

This is not an attack on Sunsation, but a general statement towards the industry.

I think the new Sunsation will be a hot looking boat!!!