APBA P-Class National Points System
 

What do you guys think? I say acquire points all year long just like the Factory Classes , etc! BH

you should have to race 2 races in your own region and then race Tampa for the National Championship. It's way to expensive to race the whole tour. If someone wants to race the whole tour they should build a national class boat. Remember just a few years ago that is how the factory classes were too.

I think that you should have to win points over the entire season. It doesn't make sense to me that you can race 2 times (last year), win one race, and be crowned a National Champion. I went to New Orleans for SBI Worlds last year, and ended up winning the Divisional National Championship in P5 without even racing SBI before. I'll take it I guess, but I almost feel guilty about it.

Having to win points at all the different races sites, in a variety of water conditions, is the best way to determine a winner. If you have a fast boat in very smooth water, and Tampa is dead calm (like Cleveland last year), the water conditions would have more of a bearing on who wins. Very rough water would have the same effect, only with a different winner. Over the course of an entire season, you would encounter all types of water. Also, 1 mechanical failure would not put you out of the running. Just my $.02

I have to agree with Ryan, "P" class (I hate that name) should be kept as divisional points.
If boat racing were to follow the format of car racing, "Sportman Series" or "P" classes, should race for divisional points. If someone wants to spend the time and money, step up to "Pro Series" classes.
I think boatracing should follow the lead of car racing on this.
Bob G.

RB is correct...i think they should have only 4 classes, at the most, on the pro tour...WAY easier for spectators to figure it out and sell it for that matter...i think this maybe the first steps toward that goal?? i don't like that we have to run 2 regionals on top of the pro series. they want to better the numbers at regional events...again, part of a larger plan i think, to have regional racers feed into the pro series. again, i really don't look at this like a hobby nor does the APBA.

ps. i have not looked at any rules that only apply to the p-class boat,,,so i'm only going on your statement and put'n my .02 in...cya at the races!

you can't make the points divisional only, there all in Fla. other than TX the bahamas and Georgia (which is close to Fla) and Milwaukee,Wisconsin . so for any one in the N.E. it is going to be expensive. that would make it fair. southern racer go to more races (better show for the fan's) and the northeners have to spend the money if they want it.

if you only want to run one or two races that's fine but the teams that put in the effort and time to follow the pro series should also get rewarded with the national points championship.

more on this later.

MRV8,
I agree with you to an extent-wouldn't it be nice if we could get OPA to become an APBA divisional affiliate. If it was run as a club, then the members would have a say.......

I'm with the Stickerdude here. Remember, "P class" is supposed to be an entry level class that people can race with minimal expense. While P-X, P-1 and P-2 have some expensive equipment competeing in them, P class is still a class where a low budget can compete against a big checkbook. As an example, If someone can make a start in two pro races, &/or 3 divisional races, then that should qualify them for a shot at the big title.
Just my opinion.

P3 - Entry Level?
 

Gordo:

C'mon P-3 ain't entry level. Tell Dirty Cash , Miklos and The Sutphen guy's they're entry level. Our 38 Top Gun ain't cheap either ! The only reason we ran P-3 was so we could have a dual purpose boat , and 13,000 lbs- 38 ft long and running almost 90 mph is a blast racing , plus I have a boat to use on the weekend now! I also didn't see any other race boats making the pass to The Bahamas or leaving Key West Monday morning after The Worlds, heading North - ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh I feel better - BH

P-class entry level.... mabey to some , but most are old A,B.
,C and D boats that no longer fit into the new pro classes. this does not mean entry level. Alot of these boat are faster than F-1 but don't fit the class.

Entry level is in one's ability not in the equipment. if you have the cash to buy a super cat , after one race it's ball's to the wall if you got em.

more later

I agree with just browsing,make the teams earn the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.The present format luck is a BIG part of the race.Just my thoughts.

the idea in p class is show up and run what you got...see if you like it,,,get some seat time, and buy a race boat. you have everything from small cats to a huge v in the same class.

"Entry level is in one's ability not in the equipment".....i think entry level is defined by the organization. if they say it is...it is. just look at bacardi,,,,THE bad ass boat at the APBA events!...F1's get WAY MORE media coverage and they should!

Hey BH,how is everything? Just a FAST note,The Jersey Boyz were told WE could not race in Key West as WE didn't run any APBA throughout the year which we understood but were disappointed, then when we arrived in Key West and went to the APBA Trailer to discuss the upcoming year everyone there was asking where our boats were so there was a little lack of communication there.What APBA meant was WE could race but not for a flag and that would have been fine with myself , Eddie Smith of WAZZUP and Bruce of Simply Awesome as well as the rest of the crew that didn't show up because they were told they couldn't race, but we will be there this year GOD willing and the engines hold up. We'll see you in Daytona and good luck on your upcoming season. Regards Augie.

i don't think you can use the combined divisional and national points to tabulate national champion because not all divisions have races.

if you want to stay close to home and or race just two races just to qualify wouldn't be fair . maybe make the winner at tampa's race "NORTH AMERICAN OUTLAW CHAMPION" which is similar to what they are doing for the bahama's race. but the highest national points is the national champion.

the next topic would be the worlds, to qualify for that you should have to do more than for the nationals. either one more race (meaning three) or the top in your division.

teams need to be rewarded for there participation as well. putting more boats into each race site p-class or pro is only going to help the show for the fans. that means participation is the key.

just some of my thoughts...... fyi

Well said,MRV8.

yep well said
 

MRV you are correct - I give you the vote - BH

P class for rookies and old timers
 

If you can afford it then move up! If you want to run for a national championship, then buy a boat that has a national circuit. I know a guy who has 5 world championships in the larger classes but last year he raced in P class for fun.(?) Bottom line is there are to many classes already. My.01 cents, recession you know.

to a point i agree. but to have your equipment moved out of a
certin class , or removing a class is not one pesons fault. as for too many classes , you could get rid of p-classes and have no racing on saturday,give more money to the big guy's. but two days of racing has worked out good for the fans and the sport. the more boat at a venue the bigger and better the show. now of we look at the total number of registered equipment in a perticular class you will find larger numbers in the smaller classes.
just because some one has deeper pockets than the next guy doesn't mean you can't run for national points if you put the time and effort in just like every one else. if you ran a national class , attented every event , showed up at the national championships with the most points , got second place behind a boat that raced only two races in his back yard you wouldn't think that was unfair ? so a that point were is the incentive to move up let alone go to more than two races a season ?

the year we won the world,national,and the northeast championships was because we were at every race , finished , and in the top three. hard work, but nothing good comes easy.

more on this later.

After getting somewhat flamed previously in this thread, You'd think I would be smart enough to stay out of it,
but I've never been accused of being that smart.
There are some great points listed here, and a good arguement could be made on both sides.
While I don't think the P classes should be considered pro classes, I certainly don't consider P-class teams "rookies or old timers". My point is, remember that "P" class originally started as "Local" class. A class where any boat that met the safety requirements could race and have a fair chance at a win. This class was supposed to be a feeder class for people to race a few races and get some experience in racing conditions before jumping into a larger class. Or a chance for a local guy to be part of the big show and try an offshore race just for fun. With boats like a full dress 38 Top Gun, a 140mph Outer Limits, and a 200mph Skater, and some of the best racing of the year in P-4 and P-5, P class has become one hell of a show. It's obvious to see how much this class have grown with racers and fans alike. Still, while there are some really serious race teams competiting in the P classes, we still have to remember that last year, by popular demand, entry fees were reduced drastically so they would be more affordable for the "small teams" that wanted to get a start. And even though P class does not compete for prize money, they still got some great TV time last year.
Bottom line is, At a time when everybody wants APBA to streamline, and have fewer pro classes, you guys want to turn P class into Pro Series Bracket racing. Cool. I have no problem with that. Just remember that this will probably mean much higher entry fees and other added expenses. Are you sure you want to do that?

ya know
 

Gordo - ya know me and you see eye to eye on most of this racing stuff. I here ya running P-4 in the Corsa. Now that should be fun - damn you went from a professional class to a entry level class - hahahahaha - I had to say that - kidding bro - BH

<LOL>
 

Hollis, dude, you're killin me here with the "entry level" thing. Ok, bad choice of words. How about "Sportsman level" racing? :cool:
Ben and I had a lot of fun last year at Marathon, and didn't do too bad considering we had a pleasure boat with way too much fuel. This year should be a blast.
Who knows, that old gal might get fast enough to run P3 someday. If it does, you and Louise better run & hide cause I'm commin after your title. :eek:

last year , Dee said it was easier to post the points just like the pro series. other than that there wouldn't't be much more effort in making the point tabulate for national rater than divisional. at that point i don't see the added expense.

Why dosent offshore powerboat racing follow the structure that other forms of motorsports utilize for divisional and national racing classes.NASCAR,NHRA , SCCA and other motorsports sanctioning bodies have certain classes or series that are national, and others that are divisional, regional or local.For instance, in NASCAR there are three national touring series(classes):Winston Cup,Busch and Craftsman Truck that compete on a national circut for national points championships.There are numerous other series(classes)that compete on a divisional, regional or local basis for divisional,regional or local points championships such as the NASCAR Modifieds, Busch Grand National North and Winston West.In NHRA, its Top Fuel, Funny Car and Pro-Stock on a national basis, and numerous Sportsman classes on a divisional, regional or local basis.The purpose of the divisional series or classes is to provide a place for racers who race for fun...or a proving ground for racers looking to move up to a national pro class or series.These classes are supposed to be a feeder system to the national pro classes.SCCA does the same thing with their regional club classes with the national champions being determined at a winner take all race at the end of the season.The original APBA Sportsman A,B,C & D classes were set up this way, and that the way it should be now in my opinion.I also would like to see P-Class changed to "Sportsman" and use the A,B,C,D & E designations.....and do away with the PX/PV classes.If want to race for a national championship, build a boat for SC, SCL, SV, SVL or F.Just my opinion.

I think that is where the APBA is going waterboy2...I think that is why they are making the racers on the pro tour compete in two regional this year...I think they want to build the fan base at the local level first. they do have a master plan to grow this motorsport...and have made the statements to the effect of removing the 'hobby' from the offshore pro tour. i hear from racers all the time, they want this sport to grow. but many of the same racers are holding it back.

it's really hard as a fan to figure out who's racing who out there!...when you have a bat boats, cats, and big OL in the same class...

hmmmmmm
 

I won't tell the boss you said that , she's a pretty fiesty gal ya know - haha - BH

:confused:

don't get it...what gal?

why then do they have p-classes at national events? if this is such a problem then don't have them at national events.
now how many boats would you have racing? would you like going to any other motor sport event if you knew the field was cut in half. we/apba need numbers to sell,more boats at a race more sponcer decals, more fans,bigger is better.
this is about national points for p-class. if you put the effort into being at national races and supporting the sport by being there putting on the show then recognize that effort with national points. if you decide to run two races in your division then so be it.

more to follow....

throttle gal
 

Many people don't know we're throttled by a chick - she's the real deal - BH

i don't think the boat numbers are the answer. the size of the class and how close the racing is more important. quality not quanity. bigger is not always better. right now p class is a filler class from a standpoint of the APBA's actions. look,, randy and BJ got more coverage in F1 than even the bacardi silver boat did in p class! and they should, they are the real deal!

Well stated. You should have to prove yourself in all types of water, and there are only 7 pro races up to that point.

national points
 

It has allready been said but I think if a team chooses to run the national circuit then they should be rewarded with a national title , why not? the P-classes allow teams to try the national circuit and as has been pointed out it is a place to run boats that maybe don't fit todays current class rules . I used to run local races and apreciate being able to go nationally I feel we have come far why would you want to take us backward? I mean I know " pro" teams that only hit a few races a year or miss a few depending on your point of view but they make two so they can run in the worlds so I don't see the difference! As far as the " stepping up to a pro class " I've been told that before and it pisses me off the people that have said that to me and I mean no offense to the racers in those classes run in low classes that I would feel like I was going bacwards so I don't get the steping up thing , the funny thing is over the years I have gotten to be friends with several of the top teams in supercat etc. and they have never said anything like that but have been supportive and helpful to our program

Just Browsing.....

Couldn't have said it any better !!!

Dave

now just get apba-offshore to accept it. they are posted as national points already.

After running P-5 in Daytona, I have alot of respect for all P-Class racers. I have ran F1 - F2 - SVL- P4- P3 and now P5 and I think throttling my 28 Joker in P5 was some of the best racing I've been involved in. You don't have to move up through the P-Classes , stay there and have fun! Run what ya brung and have a blast doing it - BH

Hey Brian, I'm very glad to see you writing down your thoughts on the P- class and your right, go out and have fun! I get the same RUSH on race day in P-4 as everyone else does so thanks for bringing this to the board.Be safe, Augie.

Well said BH...if your not havin fun , why do it?

Augie, do you have trouble spelling Brian??? every time

just jabbin' ya my brutha.

Done....thank you my brother! What's up!!!!!

Brian,
The P5 race in Daytona was one of the best! Less than 15 seconds separated all boats. It makes one wonder who would have won had there not been a red flag.

Robert,
it probably would not have changed considering Brian and I broke. See ya Saturday