Cat vs. Cummins
 

I have been talking to folks about the new trucks. Does anybody have any expirence with the new 2008 F-650's, is the new Cummings as good as people say? I heard that in 07 the Cat was the only way to go, but in 2008 the Cummings is just as good or better than the Cat ? Because if you look on line everything has the Cummings in it??

As you may or not know I sell 335 peterbilt 4 doors and cat has stopped supplying engines to pete (C-7) model. The conversion shop has 50 chassis's on the ground and they all have the 8.3 cummins 330hp with 1000lbs torque. They are 2008 models. From what I heard Cat can not meet emissions with this engine model. In talking to friends that run large over the road trucks the cummins engine seems to be the way to go. I personally was always a cat fan but I may have to change. What will you be doing with the 650? Will you make a pickup out of it or put a hauler bed on it?

The Pete is a much better truck irrespective of the motor.

Cummins.

They should just change their name- it would be easier.

why, from what I heard it is all emmisions stuff. Also the Cummins gets better gas mileage????

pickup

What exactly did Cummins do to Diesel's motor to make it better?

Cat C7 meets emissions and is offered in other OEM's. Probably a few reasons why Paccar went with Cummins. Price was certainly a consideration. They also wanted their own engine brand so they could access parts direct to their dealer network. Cat wouldn't go there. Take a look at some oil analysises from Cat and Cummins 2007-2008 engines then draw your own conclusions.

All Cat C-series engines utilize ACERT technology and are Tier 3 emmissions compliant.

http://ohe.cat.com/cda/layout?m=9241&x=7

Reliability
Dealer Repair Frequency statistics show Cat engines with ACERT Technology are the most reliable Caterpillar has ever produced.
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Durability
Laboratory tests and engine disassembly analyses indicate that the Cat C7 engine has a B50 life of 450,000 to 500,000 miles.
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Fuel Economy
The 2007 Cat C7 engine is expected to provide a fuel economy improvement of up to 4%
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Total Owning/Operating Costs
The 2007 Cat C7 engine is engineered to offer the same reliability, improved durability, improved fuel economy and similar maintenance costs as the 2004 C7 engines for outstanding overall value.
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Dealer Support
Cat sets the industry standard for support with 2,500 authorized North American service locations and a 24/7 call center.

Good luck in what you are doing., Just remember that you will be spending alot more money for the 650 and still getting a one ton interior as far as space goes. Most of the 650's that I have ridden in ride pretty stiff even with air suspension. The 4 door petes go down the road as smooth as a town car. Also check that most ford stores do not have a service department that can work on the driveline. good luck

You're going to be hard-pressed to beat Cat serviceability. There are 24/7 Cat distributors/service centers everywhere across the country, plus every truck dealer out there can work on them.

If you have a problem on the road, nothing is going to get back running faster than the Cat. Their parts prices are STEEP though.

yes my current truck is a cat and when I have a problem there are cat stores everywhere. But Cat is very proud of the color yellow and the prices reflect that

I heard that they have already had 16 recalls on the new 08 stuff??? from what I have heard they are having a hard time with the emmisions??? anybody else hear that???

I can't speak to the recalls but seriuously doubt 16 have occurred in '08.

I can say that your source on the emmissions is incorrect at this time. All the Cat on highway are Tier 3 compliant and most off highway. Now Tier 4 is coming up in the not to distant future and all diesel engine manufacturers are struggling with Tier 4. Many manufacturers are still buying credits for Tier 3 compliance.

Most engine manufacturers used EGR to meet Tier 3 which is an inefficient bandaid and will create total redesign for tier 4. Cat developed ACERT for Tier 3 which is leaps and bounds above other manufacturers.

so what you are saying is that someone is trying to sell me the Cummings because they have them in stock?? LOL

even though I am a cat person in the larger truck engines, for the medium duty segment for now I would go with cummins

why?

When 25 yr veteran Cat tech's say they would not buy one currently, I'll listen.

If you are going to use it for personal use only the cat would be ok. If you are going to use the truck for commercial use go with the cummins. Cat is having lots of problems with the emissions and the new smog devices cause lots of heat. On the big trucks, some of them have caught fire due to the high heat (1700 degrees) for the exuaust temp

cummins

Cat has not had 16 recalls. They have had updates and some minor improvements. Every, I mean every diesel engine manufacturer has challenges with the new technology. A major carrier just put into service first of Feb (10) Cat C13's/Columbia's, (15) ISX's/Pro Stars and 25 DDC series 60's/Columbia's. All new emission product. Same drivelines. Cat is hitting 6.2 mpg, no issues. ISX's 6.0, regen/egr cooler issues, DDC 5.7 regen issues. Trucks will clock 130-150K/yr. On the smaller end, Mercedes hasn't been able to produce 2007-08 MB 900 over 250 hp yet. Cummins B has had some regen issues, but nothing major that I have heard of. Cat does not have a whole bunch of C7 product out there as the only users are Ford, some motorhomes and Blue Bird Bus. GM really hasn't put many C7's out at all due to their own chassis issues with engineering. If you are staying on the highway and don't spend allot of time idling, you stand a better chance of keeping your problrms to a minimum with the new technology.

so to sum it up if just persional use the Cummins will be fine for 2008??

Keep the wheels rolling and idle time down you should be good:D

Cummins, not cummings.

none of the new engines with the particulate filter mufflers like to idle. They will clog up. If you need to idle more than a couple of minuites than bump up the idle to 800 or 900rpm

Bob let me put you in a pete, same 26,000lbs rating as the ford but alot more truck, and the ride is like a caddy. I can do either a 4 door like the 650 or a 4 door with three rows of seats for when you take your friends to the poker run. Both chassis and cab are on air ride. You can sit in the back sofa and be 7 feet tall and have leg room. I can get them financed for up to 10 years to keep the payment normal. I can do either a 335 pete or a 300 kenworth

where can I look for inventory/models???

call me on my cell today 909-********* and I can send you photo's. All trucks are built to your spec's as far as color of paint and interior

335 pete
 

Here are three picures of the 2008 335 pete with the 7 seat config. If you don't need as many seats you just eliminate the bay window. the wheelbase stays the same no matter what.

Paccar product generally speaking is definetly a step above the rest from both a quality and a price perspective. The old get what ya pay for deal. Makes a bunch of sense in many apps. Personally I would think a crew cab 335 with air ride and 300-330 hp would be real nice:D

Actually Cat does incorporate the ability to help the engine generate heat for the DPF without doing a regen. They are alone with that ability. Adds just enough heat to allow many hours of continuous idle time and not add restriction to the flow through the DPF. Really nice for refuse, utility and city delivery apps. We have a refuse co in NJ that is having to do three regens a day with a competitors product and they are freakin out. Takes 1-1.5hrs of productivity away per day.

is that on the C-7 or the larger C-13?

I have looked at the pictures do they have any with just a pick-up bed like the ones at the OSS race in LOTO last year???

unfortunatly he will not build with a pickup bed. I asked him to do it and he refuses saying that the frame moves to much and when you mount a pickup bed on it you get cracks at the mounting points.

thats cool realy didn't want a semi, just an XL pick-up

be the first one on your block. my 7 and 10 year old love to have me take them to school

All On-Highway engines utilize essentially the same strategy for 07-08. Minor diffs but the C7 also uses what Cat calls their "enhanced passive" regen which is turned on when the system cannot do a normal regen and the ECM determines the DPF needs additional help in generating heat.

I have a 2009 pete 384 with a C-13 470hp chassis sitting at the conversion shop. I was given the choice of that or one with a cummins ISM 410hp. I chose the cat. 13speed ultrashift with a 307 ring and pinion. On the computer it should do 115 but I geared it for that so at 70 I should be about 1300rpm which should be good for fuel and since I never will have it over 35,000 including truck and boat I think the engine will be idling down the highway with no strain