|
Originally Posted by BillR
(Post 2635395)
By charging over retail, dealers screw themselves AND the mfg. When Ford brought out the GT, dealer greed set in and they wanted $20K - $50K over retail. Well the cars didn't sell well. So they slowed and then stopped production because demand wasn't there. Demand wasn't there because the dealers inflated the price so much, no one with a brain would buy one.
Look @ Challengers right now. Dealers are doing same thing and they have cars ready to drive off right now. Yes the economy is playing a big part, even more reason to not be greedy. Put them at retail and the inventory will move. |
Originally Posted by Hot Knots
(Post 2640438)
More towing power, better fuel mileage, bulletproof motor, exhaust brake(on the 6.7)...what's not to like??
|
I try to refrain from commenting on all of the dealer ripping people off comments on this board but sometimes I can't help myself. You guys would never think of asking the manager at Best Buy to display his cost on that new big screen and proceed to tell him that based on your research you are willing to give him fifty dollars over his cost. They would laugh you out of the store. If some of you guys gave your broker 40k to invest and six maybe eight months or sometimes even a year later he said I think your going to be really happy, I made you three hundred on the 40K. Would you keep your money with him? The point is that dealers work on smaller margins than most businesses in the world. Is it just by chance that they are going out of business at an alarming rate? The bottom line is that, yes the Chargers will be under MSRP in the near future, but some people want one now and that is the current market. The 2008 models are also a numbered limited run vs. the 2009 which will more than likely have three times the production numbers of the 08's. Bottom line, the 08 will always be worth more than that discounted 09 that you waited for the great deal on.
P.S. I am not a new car dealer!!!! |
That car looks great in 1/4 views, but the profile is fugly.
IMHO. Now, the Camaro on the other hand. :cool: |
Originally Posted by Chuck
(Post 2640543)
I try to refrain from commenting on all of the dealer ripping people off comments on this board but sometimes I can't help myself. You guys would never think of asking the manager at Best Buy to display his cost on that new big screen and proceed to tell him that based on your research you are willing to give him fifty dollars over his cost. They would laugh you out of the store. If some of you guys gave your broker 40k to invest and six maybe eight months or sometimes even a year later he said I think your going to be really happy, I made you three hundred on the 40K. Would you keep your money with him? The point is that dealers work on smaller margins than most businesses in the world. Is it just by chance that they are going out of business at an alarming rate? The bottom line is that, yes the Chargers will be under MSRP in the near future, but some people want one now and that is the current market. The 2008 models are also a numbered limited run vs. the 2009 which will more than likely have three times the production numbers of the 08's. Bottom line, the 08 will always be worth more than that discounted 09 that you waited for the great deal on.
P.S. I am not a new car dealer!!!! I respect what you are saying..the point is times are tough at the moment..The dealers here are trying to sell them for 7-10k over and still has 3 on the lot..His comment to me is I thought these were so hot..My point is..yes..if you have to have it now and are willing to pay X over msrp..so be it..the problem is they are not moving like expected..so lower the price to x over msrp or even msrp which is still a great profit and move on to the next one. Thats all some of us are saying. Mine is ordered, and I did pay less than msrp, and Im thankful for that. |
Originally Posted by Chuck
(Post 2640543)
I try to refrain from commenting on all of the dealer ripping people off comments on this board but sometimes I can't help myself. You guys would never think of asking the manager at Best Buy to display his cost on that new big screen and proceed to tell him that based on your research you are willing to give him fifty dollars over his cost. They would laugh you out of the store. If some of you guys gave your broker 40k to invest and six maybe eight months or sometimes even a year later he said I think your going to be really happy, I made you three hundred on the 40K. Would you keep your money with him? The point is that dealers work on smaller margins than most businesses in the world. Is it just by chance that they are going out of business at an alarming rate? The bottom line is that, yes the Chargers will be under MSRP in the near future, but some people want one now and that is the current market. The 2008 models are also a numbered limited run vs. the 2009 which will more than likely have three times the production numbers of the 08's. Bottom line, the 08 will always be worth more than that discounted 09 that you waited for the great deal on.
P.S. I am not a new car dealer!!!! As far as car dealers folding, a very large Chevy store just closed its doors after 25+ years. Owner is a multi-franchise dealer and wants to sell the land for a bigger profit than car business would have generated. New dealerships have massive overhead and floorplans forced on them by the manufacturers so if sales volume drops they can get real expensive to operate. |
I am not ssaying that charging over MSRP is a good idea, but I am saying that I don't think there is anything wrong with that. How many times do we see some guy whining on here that everyone is lowballing him on his boat, and everyone chimes in and says.... its only worth what someone is willing to write a check for. It does work both ways guys.
As far as the tv comparison goes, there is no federal law required to post an MSRP. The tv is marked up according to what the market will pay as determined by the current market conditions. |
Chuck, I'm with you all the way in your posts and I couldn't have said it any better. Most of you know that I'm not a new car dealer either, but I do work with them on a daily basis as a wholesaler and broker and I'll tell you this, they are getting their azzes beat right now.
The manufacturers have cut their profit margins so slim that they can't make any money on a new car. There's also the dealer down the street that will sell it for $100 less. Then, you have people wanting to trade in their trucks and SUV's and can't believe what the dealer is offering them. Hell, what dealer wants to throw the dice on these babies that are dropping everyday in price. I rep a lot of vehicles at different auctions for dealers and let me say this, some are taking a beating on vehicles that they traded 3 or 4 weeks ago, if in fact, I can sell them. The one thing that always pissed me off was that the new car manufacturers give their dealer invoice prices to everyone. WTF?? They're everywhere, newsprint, magazines, internet, public restrooms, just seeing if you're paying attention. Anyway, this is pure stupidity and always has been. Try and find out the invoice on that Cig, Nor-Tech, Searay, etc. or a washer, refrigerator or a freakin' mattress. Now this one kills me. I sold a car to a guy who works for a major mattress chain. We got to talking and got around to what a mattress cost, because I was saying that I sometimes see 3 different stores right in a row. How can they make any money when their on top of each other. He tells me that some of the mattress sets that he sells for $3000 cost the store about $800(depending on the manufacturer). Nice profit. A car dealer makes nowhere near that much on a new car. AND compare the investment in their showrooms. Back to the over list prices. Hey, if something is in demand and you can get a ton of money for it RIGHT NOW.....then You, Me, the Dealer are all going to take it. But I also agree that if a dealer has these cars sitting and is not moving them at over list, he better wise up. Because like all the others that were being sold over list at one time ALL COME DOWN eventually. |
Invoices are public info but there is hold back, and the profit centers in F&I and parts and service. Your argument seems to indicate that when times are good, the dealers won't use the ADMs which we all know is not the case.
The biggest and most successful dealers up here are the ones that have a consistent mark-up over invoice on their entire line whether that is 3,5, 700 or 1500 (or whatever)over invoice. People tend to hate the haggling and the trade-off tag teaming. I am with Jupiter. I either wait, pre-order or make a few calls. GT 500s were $30,000 over MSRP up here. A day on the internet found the one I wanted for MSRP. I have a hard time feeling sympathy for dealers who do ADMs. As I said you can shear a sheep over and over but cut him only once. |
Originally Posted by 2112
(Post 2640442)
Its a Dodge?:party-smiley-004:
|
Originally Posted by 2112
(Post 2641624)
Invoices are public info but there is hold back, and the profit centers in F&I and parts and service. Your argument seems to indicate that when times are good, the dealers won't use the ADMs which we all know is not the case.
The biggest and most successful dealers up here are the ones that have a consistent mark-up over invoice on their entire line whether that is 3,5, 700 or 1500 (or whatever)over invoice. People tend to hate the haggling and the trade-off tag teaming. I am with Jupiter. I either wait, pre-order or make a few calls. GT 500s were $30,000 over MSRP up here. A day on the internet found the one I wanted for MSRP. I have a hard time feeling sympathy for dealers who do ADMs. As I said you can shear a sheep over and over but cut him only once. Come on and think about it. Anything that is sold today cars, boats, tv's, washers, air conditioning units, heaters, snowmobiles, you name it, they all need service, replacement parts and sometimes financing. Get a plumber, HVAC guy or TV repairman to come to your house. You have a freakin' service charge just to get him there. And guess what .... YOU STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT ITEM INVOICED FOR or WHAT MSRP WAS, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU MSRP. If auto manufacturers didn't have to put MSRP labels on their new vehicles, we wouldn't be having this exchange. One more thing, try going to a used car lot or boat dealer and ask the dealer how much he paid for the item and offer him $100 over his cost. First of all, he's not going to tell you, secondly he's selling that item for what the market will bear. And that's my point. If you want something bad enough and HAVE to have it today, then it should be sold at current market value, whether it's invoice, below invoice or over MSRP. |
Originally Posted by Rocky Dell
(Post 2641475)
Chuck, I'm with you all the way in your posts and I couldn't have said it any better. Most of you know that I'm not a new car dealer either, but I do work with them on a daily basis as a wholesaler and broker and I'll tell you this, they are getting their azzes beat right now.
The manufacturers have cut their profit margins so slim that they can't make any money on a new car. There's also the dealer down the street that will sell it for $100 less. Then, you have people wanting to trade in their trucks and SUV's and can't believe what the dealer is offering them. Hell, what dealer wants to throw the dice on these babies that are dropping everyday in price. I rep a lot of vehicles at different auctions for dealers and let me say this, some are taking a beating on vehicles that they traded 3 or 4 weeks ago, if in fact, I can sell them. The one thing that always pissed me off was that the new car manufacturers give their dealer invoice prices to everyone. WTF?? They're everywhere, newsprint, magazines, internet, public restrooms, just seeing if you're paying attention. Anyway, this is pure stupidity and always has been. Try and find out the invoice on that Cig, Nor-Tech, Searay, etc. or a washer, refrigerator or a freakin' mattress. Now this one kills me. I sold a car to a guy who works for a major mattress chain. We got to talking and got around to what a mattress cost, because I was saying that I sometimes see 3 different stores right in a row. How can they make any money when their on top of each other. He tells me that some of the mattress sets that he sells for $3000 cost the store about $800(depending on the manufacturer). Nice profit. A car dealer makes nowhere near that much on a new car. AND compare the investment in their showrooms. Back to the over list prices. Hey, if something is in demand and you can get a ton of money for it RIGHT NOW.....then You, Me, the Dealer are all going to take it. But I also agree that if a dealer has these cars sitting and is not moving them at over list, he better wise up. Because like all the others that were being sold over list at one time ALL COME DOWN eventually. Like I said in the last sentence above, which was only 9 days ago, "ALL COME DOWN eventually." Challengers were selling wholesale at $48k-$49k. Thursday's sale, they weren't breaking $45k. An Orange one sold for $44,750 and there were a few No Sales that I observed. So, if anyone is looking to buy one of these Challengers, hold off a little longer, they will come down much more. |
Originally Posted by Rocky Dell
(Post 2641724)
Yes, you are right. Invoice is public knowledge and why should it be? There's no other manufacturers that come to mind right now, that tell the public what they sell their product to their dealers for. That's complete Bull$h#t. Holdback, the same thing, not the publics business. F&I, parts, service, I guess all of us boaters don't pay for this stuff, it's free right? You don't think that a boat dealer sets up financing for free, do you or sells parts at his cost and oh yeah, the mechanics fix your boats for free.
Come on and think about it. Anything that is sold today cars, boats, tv's, washers, air conditioning units, heaters, snowmobiles, you name it, they all need service, replacement parts and sometimes financing. Get a plumber, HVAC guy or TV repairman to come to your house. You have a freakin' service charge just to get him there. And guess what .... YOU STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT ITEM INVOICED FOR or WHAT MSRP WAS, BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU MSRP. If auto manufacturers didn't have to put MSRP labels on their new vehicles, we wouldn't be having this exchange. One more thing, try going to a used car lot or boat dealer and ask the dealer how much he paid for the item and offer him $100 over his cost. First of all, he's not going to tell you, secondly he's selling that item for what the market will bear. And that's my point. If you want something bad enough and HAVE to have it today, then it should be sold at current market value, whether it's invoice, below invoice or over MSRP. |
Well in the electronics business you have the internet. There you can find product "fill in blank
" for less than real dealer cost. trouble is, most people then think: A) They are buying factory sealed, first rate goods B) LOTS of mark up in electronics C) Local guys are ripping everyone off D) They have a factory warranty E) They can call the local guy to set up & service his purchase (esp after he picked the local salesman for info - then took that info and bought on-line) Well, in every situation, you don't get something for nothing. Those cheapo sites sell refurbed / returns / or whatever. The mfg warranty is void, and if you get a UL approved item (this costs mfg's LOTS) you'll be lucky. MFG's set up internet dealers that are "approved" by the mfg - meaning they are selling you good stuff. Their prices are same as local guys because THERE ISN'T THAT MUCH PROFIT in the stuff. But like cars, the info you can glean on-line make people think they can get the stuff SO cheap. My advise to on line shoppers - Good luck. Your gonna need it. I've seen SO many people get bad internet deals; it make one wonder why you risk so much $$ to save 2 to 3 hundred. |
I used to be in the car business and it would crack you up the way people would come in and haggle on prices. But I would try to think, when was the last time I went to the market and threw $300.00 worth of groceries on the counter and told them I would offer $150.00. Internet shoppers screwed up alot of businesses too, along with the automotive. Shoppers are alot smarter now but sometimes they are too smart for their own good.
|
Originally Posted by Rocky Dell
(Post 2648973)
Like I said in the last sentence above, which was only 9 days ago, "ALL COME DOWN eventually." Challengers were selling wholesale at $48k-$49k. Thursday's sale, they weren't breaking $45k. An Orange one sold for $44,750 and there were a few No Sales that I observed. So, if anyone is looking to buy one of these Challengers, hold off a little longer, they will come down much more.
Or Dodge decides to cancel the whole Challenger Line.... How does that sound ? Now tell me a single american car with performance to speak of after the gas crisis on 1973... does the history look familiar to todays situation? A recession, oil skyhigh and muscle car wars raging too... Remember after all US automakers needs desperately US buyers because the rest of the world in general do not wan´t those gas guzzlers the big three makes. Never has never will... |
Originally Posted by MikeyFIN
(Post 2649204)
Or Dodge decides to cancel the whole Challenger Line....
How does that sound ? Now tell me a single american car with performance to speak of after the gas crisis on 1973... does the history look familiar to todays situation? A recession, oil skyhigh and muscle car wars raging too... Remember after all US automakers needs desperately US buyers because the rest of the world in general do not wan´t those gas guzzlers the big three makes. Never has never will... It's pretty funny when you go to the port in Calif. The parking lots are still full of American Muscle Cars being shipped out all over the world even in todays market. |
Originally Posted by Speedpro1
(Post 2649286)
And what was the last car Finland manufactured? I seem to forget. Oh, thats right, they don't have one.
It's pretty funny when you go to the port in Calif. The parking lots are still full of American Muscle Cars being shipped out all over the world even in todays market. |
Originally Posted by Rocky Dell
(Post 2641475)
He tells me that some of the mattress sets that he sells for $3000 cost the store about $800(depending on the manufacturer). Nice profit.
|
Originally Posted by t500hps
(Post 2634995)
Getting back to Mopar....the stock vette isn't all that, it can't out-run my SRT Charger (a buddy has one).......I did add a CAI and a Programmer/tuner but that's it. I've only been to the track once in my life and it was recently in the Charger.
4,445 lbs with me sitting in it 20 inch wheels, stock tires but lowered air pressure 4 door sedan :) ran a 1.96 60ft, 12.9 @ 110 mph (with someone behind the wheel that has NEVER been to the track before) Now the BMW 3's are sweet cars but the Charger/Challenger just LOOK like beasts. |
Originally Posted by Jupiter Sunsation
(Post 2634918)
I love the 335 with a chip/exhaust/wheels for 20K less.
The other thing is the dual mode exhaust stock vette is 424 HP for 45K new vs the 505 HP Z06 for 75K. 30K is a lot for 71 HP. Z06 is cooler looking but 30K can buy a lot of extras. I have seen a lot of guys daily driving Z06's since the car is soon to be obsolete with the ZR1 coming back with 6?? HP. |
mt. clemens dodge in michigan is selling for sticker. All colors in stock, picked mine up tues. Ask for paul 586 246 8122. Tell him Ronnie from the flight club sent ya!
|
Chuuuuuuuuuuuckie !!!!!!! whats happenin bro ? Rocky are you and Chuck giving us bottom feeding car guys a bad rep again...lmfao. Unless your in the car biz as the 3 of us are (Chuck, Rocky and myself) they just dont know. I've been in it for lil over 20 years, started with the franchised dealers, worked every facet...detailing, parts, service then into sales, sales mgmt, finance etc...left the new car biz 8 years ago and have been running a 30 year old family owned independent lot since. Wholesale and retail month in and month out we move 85-110 units...retail usually runs between 20-30 and wholesale makes up the difference. The thing that cracks me up still is the guy thats been to your place looking at a specific car 3-4 times, has done all of his research then says whats my trade worth, you ask him what he wants for it and he says well BLUE BOOK VALUE is XXXX...ok Mr Professional Shopper so Kelly Blue Trade for your car is XXX and what was Kelly Blue Book for mine. Then the silence...WELL I DONT KNOW I DIDNT LOOK. THEN THE GAMES BEGIN !!! Because when i pull up Kelly Blue Book on my vehicle and its thousands more then im asking he turns into rainman.
|
i've been trying to find someone at Kelly Blue Book or Edmunds to write me checks for the 60+ vehicles i have in inventory for a looooooooooooong time but cant seem to find anyone willing to do so. So as said above an item is worth what someones willing to pay. The new car dealers are in a heap of trouble right now due to the current market conditions. They have one of the smallest ROI's (return on investment) of any other product on the market. I have a friend of mine that owns an appliance store. He makes more on a washer and dryer then dealers have made on a $30,000 vehicle. BUT THATS OK RIGHT ?!?! John Q Public is finally realizing that it just doesnt pay to buy new cars!! There are plenty of current model pre-owned's available and you can save thousands on those. But for those that HAVE TO HAVE NEW or HAVE TO BE THE FIRST KID ON THE BLOCK godbless ya...im just glad im not one of those. I sat with a guy the other day who buys a NEW car every 3 years...had he purchased a 1 year old car every 3 years his 4th one almost would have been FREE...do the math its not rocket science
|
Hey Bern what's going on? Where you been? Chuck & I could have used you in here. Nah, just messin' with you.
Anyway, we were basically just stating some facts on the slim profit margins on new vehicles. Then the Challengers came out and dealers were getting over list for them, because you know how it is, there's always those people who have to be the first to get one and pay tons of money for them. I exported an Orange Challenger to Canada for $50k a couple of weeks ago. Now, 2 weeks later, I can sell the same car for $46k. As I said, they all come down eventually. |
Forget the Challenger......
3 Attachment(s)
How about this one?
|
Originally Posted by Rocky Dell
(Post 2656747)
How about this one?
On it's way to Raleigh, NC |
Originally Posted by berns29scarab
(Post 2655498)
i've been trying to find someone at Kelly Blue Book or Edmunds to write me checks for the 60+ vehicles i have in inventory for a looooooooooooong time but cant seem to find anyone willing to do so. So as said above an item is worth what someones willing to pay. The new car dealers are in a heap of trouble right now due to the current market conditions. They have one of the smallest ROI's (return on investment) of any other product on the market. I have a friend of mine that owns an appliance store. He makes more on a washer and dryer then dealers have made on a $30,000 vehicle. BUT THATS OK RIGHT ?!?! John Q Public is finally realizing that it just doesnt pay to buy new cars!! There are plenty of current model pre-owned's available and you can save thousands on those. But for those that HAVE TO HAVE NEW or HAVE TO BE THE FIRST KID ON THE BLOCK godbless ya...im just glad im not one of those. I sat with a guy the other day who buys a NEW car every 3 years...had he purchased a 1 year old car every 3 years his 4th one almost would have been FREE...do the math its not rocket science
I sell Nissans... 8 years in the biz. If you want the latest, greatest, now... You pay. Period. If you are willing to wait, fine. Wait. That's the nice thing about shopping for a car, you don't have to buy it. It's not GREED. If you guys that aren't in the business saw how many people come in here trying to buy GTR's for list so they can flip 'em and make $15000 cuz that's what the market is, your heads would spin. :food-smiley-007: |
Let me just say from personal experience (this morning no less) these hemi challengers are quick....time to up the HP on the old LS1 camaro! :drink:
|
Originally Posted by flight club
(Post 2655396)
mt. clemens dodge in michigan is selling for sticker. All colors in stock, picked mine up tues. Ask for paul 586 246 8122. Tell him Ronnie from the flight club sent ya!
Ronnie - which one you get? Drove by on my way to the boat the other day and saw four out front...the graphite looks sick. Bring it on over to Champion one day and I'll break it in for ya! :drink: |
Originally Posted by fantastixvoyage
(Post 2684039)
Ronnie - which one you get? Drove by on my way to the boat the other day and saw four out front...the graphite looks sick.
Bring it on over to Champion one day and I'll break it in for ya! :drink: |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:53 PM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.