Trailer Upgrades...I have questions
 

I have a late 80's Quickload trailer that I am wanting to do some upgrades on. I have the boat and trailer indoors and supported with the tires pulled. The trailer is supported with 5 ton jacks and the boat is supported with boat jacks. I am moving around underneath and wanted the boat to be secure, plus I can lower the trailer away from the boat for adjustments.

Here is what I want to do and I need some input from those that have done these upgrades.

Add forward bunks, bow stop, and upgrade the rollers. I would like some input on the best way to add the bunks, are the rollers pictured good enough or should I use something else?


keel roller

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_1233.jpg

Forward bow support

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_1232.jpg

I also want to upgrade the brakes. Right now it only has a hydrolic surge brake with the front axle drum. I would like to go to a disk brakes and was curius if just one axle is enough braking power behind my 3500 Duramax with allison tranny.

Actuator

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_1234.jpg

The front axle only has one spring..Should I upgrade this?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_1231.jpg

The other two axles do not have a mounting flange, can I have one welded on?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_1230.jpg

Only other concern is the Net capacity of the trailer its rated at 9660 lbs, I think the boat is just over that weight. I cannot find any info on the axles to see what they are rated at. Any good suggestions on that?

I am sure I will have more questions about updating after I pull the hubs and check the races and bearings.

I appreciate any help you can give.

Steven

I would also like to build a drive gaurd on the rear of the trailer, has anyone added a guard to an I-beam trailer?

What do you mean by "net" capacity? I would guess the weight of your boat and trailer is at least 12,500# maybe more.

I would want brakes on all three axles.

I assume they are meaning the carry capacity of the trailer. Gross capacity on the trailer is 10.5K pounds.

You're not going to want to hear this, but approx dry weight is 9650lbs straight off Formula's tech sheet. And back then they had a tendency to be a little light in their estimate.

I'd bet each axle is rated at 3500lbs each - x3 = 10500lbs gross. Subtract weight of trailer gets to 9660lbs net cap. Even staying within that range should have at least two axles worth of brakes; everybody will most likely push you to put brakes on all 3 given how much weight you're actually pulling around and the fact they'd be under rated in that size. I'd say skip the disc upgrade and stick with drums. Discs require a different actuator.

By the time you buy all the stuff you need to make all your upgrades, you'll be more than 50% of the cost of a brand new one. Consider shopping for a used trailer built the way you want it. But all the stuff you want can be ordered out of a catalog or supplied by a local trailer parts warehouse.

Scrap that trailer and just order a new one. Tri axle with eletric over hyd disc. Led lighting. Done..................

I would love to order a new trailer, but thats out of the question right now. I will keep an eye out for replacement axles. I dont have to have the project done for some time. I did trailer the boat from Austin,Tx to Oklahoma City with no problems. I just felt I was right at the limit and dont want to do much distance traveling with it.

disc on all 3 axels --- electric over hydraulic brakes and you will never have anything else

Unfortunately there's not a single component on that trailer that's up to the task you're asking it to do. There's just no way around that. And getting lucky a couple of times isn't a very good measure of suitability. Just about anything will work OK on a smooth, level road on a dry day with no traffic. But if any one of a number of common possibilioties occurs, you could have big problems- including questions from your insurance company why you were using an unsuitable trailer to issues with law enforcement and such if someone is hurt. "I wasn't going very far" isn't something I'd try to use to bail myself out if I did get in a jam.

Somewhere a month or so there was a thread about a Formula on a trailer that was just a little bit smaller than it should have been. It had plenty of pics of the trailer twisted like a pretzel and the boat augered into the turf of the interstate's median. I believe it was in Oklahoma. You should look.

You don't have to buy a new one. Lots of good used one's for right around what those mods you're describing are going to cost. And a proper trailer is much more crucial than a drive guard.

I may know of an aluminum I beam trailer that is like 33' or so and would probably work perfect for you. I will see what I can find out for you.

33 is too short. The boat is 35'7" The trailer itself is fine, its the axles and brake system that concern me. I have some buddies in the trailer manufacturing business that I will check with on axles, granted they build semi vans but have a full fabrication shop.

Thanks for the insight and help.

Someone told me these are good trailers.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...ormula_201.jpg

Hi Sir: I follow trailer related threads very closely as I am a proponet of correct towing. Throughout my Highway Patrol career, I have seen my share of towing boo-boos that often lead to catastrophic events. As I read your thread, my first thought was to encourage you to order/build a fresh trailer to fit your needs. You mentioned that idea is not feasible at this time. With that said, perhaps you could scope in on improving your running gear and stopping ability. I offer two suggestions:
1. Look into improving your axle/suspension system. The manufacturing industry offers both leaf springs and torsion systems to match higher capacity axle/wheel/tire combinations.
2. Give sincere thought to converting to electric/hydraulic brakes on all your axles. There is no better feeling as you are moving that large boat down the roadway that you can stop/slow quickly when the "jerk" moves out in front of you!! An added benefit to the e/h system is that you actually have brakes as you back down the boat ramp. You do not have this feature with your current system. As you convert your brake system, don't forget your breakaway system. I noticed your trailer bears Texas registration. If you are a Texas resident, I would be honored to share Texas requirements with you via e-mail.

I personally move a Formula 353 on a tri-axle Magnum trailer. I designed it with torsion suspension on 16" wheels/tires. My axle choice gives me a GVWR of 15,000. I also have e/h brakes on all axles. Your last question mentioned drive guard on a I-beam. I have that feature. I would be happy to send you photos of how we built the trailer. Can you tell....I am pretty proud of it, because it performs so well....barryd

Barry,

That would be great. I will PM You

Barry knows his stuff--you'll be far ahead of the game to listen to his suggestions.
Jay

Thanks Jay. He is sending me some info by email.

I would have kidnapped his trailer long ago if it would have worked with my boat:ernaehrung004:
Jay

BUY A MYCO!! your trailer needs a ton of work. i am a trailer mechanic and i would recommend a new trailer. the amount of work need to upgrade yours is more than it is worth. good luck.

Thanks for the pics Barry. The Dexter axle tech is taking care of me on the load part of the trailer. I will definately be putting your designs on this trailer.

Thanks again.

Any time, sir, correct trailering leads to a fun day on the water.....and that's what this is all about!!!

I've owned a number of Myco trailers and they're undoubtedly the best- both in terms of construction quality, quality of componentry and how solid thet tow.

But, you don't need a premium trailer to solve this problem, you don't even need a new one. You just need one with the pieces substantial enough to do the job. Bigger axles, springs and brakes under that frame will help, but it still is going to be on the marginal side. Especially if ever called upon to do anything other than roll down the pavement- like a panic maneuver at speed or an attempt to regain control and get back on the road and out of the grass.

Chris,

Is your concern the flex of an I-beam trailer? or do you not believe the beams on this trailer are adequate for the weight. As far as emergency manuevers I have proper training in emergency services vehicles including large fire equipment and heavy trailers, along with all the fun LE training I recieved as an officer...I do miss those times.

I would love to have a Myco by all means but financially it wont happen any time soon.

i recently rebuilt a myco. new everything but the frame. brakes,lights,tires,wiring,and plumbing. brakes on all 3 axles. 7000 lb axles and led lighting. i am giving a rough estimate but i guess we had 4000 dollars in material. this trailer is used for commercial use. you can get a nextrail, owens, loadmaster, or comparable trailer for just a little more money. good luck.

No- the I beam trailers work just as well as any other. It's just they look like they're sized for the average 7500 lb trailer. The size of rails you'd see on a trailer with 5-lug axles The one's used on the next step up are somewhat larger. I could be wrong and the photo could be misleading but at a bare minimum I'd look at some similar trailers with the kind of weight rating that would accommodate your boat.

I've had two significan accidents with trailers and in both cases I didn't have enough equipment. Once was a "just adequate" trailer and the other was a truck "right at the limit".

A trailer with more capacity than you need is worth every penny. They tow better and more smoothly. They're solid enough that they don't flex. bounce & jerk, tugging your truck around. And if you do get a little out of shape, that extra beef definitely comes in handy if you have to muscle it.

I'd just hate to see you dump a bunch of $$ into a trailer and still not have what you need, and I'd hate to see you have an avoidable mishap. Do the numbers on a fix-up and keep watching Ebay. I think you'll see you can do OK, considering your trailer has some value and is a popular size. I would think you could trade up with selling your trailer and the cost of springs, axles, brakes, bunks, etc added to yours.

Picked up the new axles yesterday. Three Dexter EZ Lube 6000lb capacity axles and springs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_1264.jpg

if ya go with the Kodiak disk breaks, I would up grade to the ones thats not suppose to rust I bought the sliver/cad coated calipers ,three years now I'm redoing again,they started to rust,even between the rubber slider and caliper [floaters] .it made mine wear uneven were the slider wasn't sliding anymore.i also just redid my md20 actuator ,they came out with some stiffer shocks,so when the breaks arnt working ya don't get that banging.The new pads are ceramic now.

someone suggested to me stainless rotors,I'm not sure about them,haven't heard good or bad??

Also the caliper rear seals I seen 3 different styles,the regular style single lip ,and double lip are easy to get the Myco viton seal is proprietary and the stainless spindle race you can only get from Myco,I change mine over and theres no seal probs anymore,the old design would rust on the seal surface and start leaking . I just keep Myco spares in the boat box, broke down out of town,,the bad thing is if ya don't have a spare seal for that stainless sleeve/collar you cant get a seal anywere.the parts counter seal want fit over the stainless sleeve.I'm not sure how Kodiak does theres now?

If your changing the actuator go hyd over electric!!!! Wish I did

just rambling
Rob:ernaehrung004:

Prater,
I am interested in following you lead with my trailer. Where did you buy your axles? Cost? Does Dexter offer 4000 or 4500 lbs. axles? Why did you decide to go to 6000 lbs? What is your plan for brakes (# axles, type and brand) What is your plan for the hydraulic system?

If you wouldn't mind, the cost per upgrade item/system would be helpful. Keep the pictures coming!
Ben

Ben,

I have a friend that is in the trailer business for Semi Trucks. He hooked me up with the parts through them as a favor.

I chose the 6K pound axles instead of the 5200 to give me a bit extra. The boat conservatively weights about 10K pounds empty. I like to load the boat at home before I pull it to the lake so I chose to go over capacity on the running gear. The trailer is a 7" Ibeam so I have plenty of weight bearing structure. I plan on using the Dexter Performance brake system but have not completely decided on the Electric/Hydraulic pump or dash controler yet. I am taking my time and spreading out the cost as I sell a few things off from the garage. Promised the wife I would not dip into family funds for my winter projects with the economy the ay it is.

I like your approach and I understand your pricing connection. I am interested in upgrading as my trailer is also a 7" beam but only has (3) 3500 lbs axles. Do you know what the the average boater would expect to pay for new Dexter axles for ratings from 4000-6000 lbs thru a Dexter dealer? Are the axle spec's are the same for disc and/or drum brakes?
Barry, assuming that Prater will now have an upgraded trailer rig that can now support his intended load, how would you go about getting the trailer ID tag, licensing, etc to align with the new capacity?
Most of us would rather meet you boating vs. along the side of the road:drink:

Ben,

Southwestwheel.com is a Dexter dealer. You can measure your current axles and give them the specs. You will need hub face to hub face and spring center to spring center for the axle replacements.

Thanks for the lead on Southwest Trailer. As the are in Dallas, I will drive over and get an education!

I installed one of the axles this afternoon. Bolts right up, but I am going to replace the shackles. I have new bolts for the axles but after looking at the old ones I am going to replace all the bolts in the suspension, they are just $1 each locally at Commercial Trialer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...a/IMG_0044.jpg

Hi BenPerfected...I will chime in and answer your questions:

The VIN will remain unchanged as the manufacturer stamped and labeled the trailer during its original manufacturing process. What needs to be addressed at this point in time is the current registration. After completing the rebuild project, load up the boat, gear, fuel, water, etc. and tow the fully loaded trailer to a nearby public scale. Ask the scale master to weigh your trailer and give you a scale ticket for your records. That number will reflect your gross weight for the trailer. Your Texas title and currect registration receipt will reflect the empty weight of your trailer. Subtract the empty weight from the gross weight. That number will indicate your current carrying capacity. Compare your new gross weight to your current registered gross weight. If the numbers are different, a trip to tax assessors office is necessary. If your new gross weight is higher than the old, ask the tax assessor to raise your registered gross weight. This will result in a slightly higher annual registration fee.....If the new gross weight is lower than the old, your annual fee can be reduced as you are purchasing to much registration. It is important for the actual gross weight to be similar to the registered gross weight while pulling the trailer on a public highway. If the registered weight is lower than actual, the operator is committing the offense known as "over registered weight". The offense is a Class C misdemeanor ($1-200 fine plus court costs) in Texas. The trailer is subject to immediate registration and penalty.

I hope this information is helpful to you....let me know if you have additional questions.

Also, remember, in Texas, an actual, registered or a manufacturer's gross weight rating above 4500 lbs will require an annual MVI inspection certificate. There are some exceptions to MVI, but a boat trailer is not one of them....barryd

How about a resurection of the thread...

Since taking on the project I had a few things that stood in the way, buying a new home and the Sea Ray that we used while the Formula took a back seat. I just started back on the project and ran into a few things of concern. I noticed some broken welds on the spring hangers after moving the boat to my new home and raising it back in the air. The hangers were welded onto an angle iron and bolted to one side of the bottom flange of the I-beam. I have read several I-beam failures over the past several months due to flange failure from improper crossbeam mounts. I dont have any flange damage, but I decided to make a stronger hanger for the axles. New 6 inch c-channel with the new hangers welded on and 5/8 grade 8 bolts will hold the new running gear.

Here is the old angle brackets and the new c-channel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_0414.jpg

Test fitting the axles.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_0417.jpg

Now its time to sandblast the parts and either galvanize or get a good undercoat paint on them. I also have a new hitch at the welders and triple axle fenders that I got cheap because of surface rust from being left outside. Hopefully this will keep on the front burner and nothing else pop up on the honeydo list...

The new axles are hanging, just need the hitch so I can square up the axles and start the brake install. Hitch should be done tomorrow...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_0423.jpg

All six Kodiaks arrived today...

Time to get the trailer tongue finished and the axles square. I was looking at the directions on the Kodiaks and it looks like they recomend the calipers mounted towards the rear of the trailer. I always thought it was more efficient to mount disk brakes in front of the axle centerline. Am I looking at the directions wrong or is there something I am missing out on???

I had the tongue welded with some new additions. The old tongue had a 12K pound surge brake actuator bolted on. With the new EOH ssystem I wanted rid of the actuator. I know some have just welded and pinned the surge but I really did not like that route. I had an adjustable bracket welded on and added an 8K pound Fulton drop jack and a couple of tie down loops for the chain. I used a zinc primer and then used rubberized coating. The first coat of the Bondo brand undercoat did not stick so I sanded it all off and used the Rustoleum brand undercoating and it stuck good. I will be drilling new holes to mount the I-Beams and using 5/8 grade 8 bolts to keep it together.

the old tongue

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_1234.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2207.jpg

The new one drying with a few coats of undercoating for protection.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2230.jpg

The new Bulldog coupler

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2229.jpg

I had some help today so it was time to install the new tongue and get the axles bolted to the frame. All the axle hanger bolts were tightened and seated then we took measurements from the front and rear axle centerline to the centerline of the new tongue and bolted down the hanger brackets. It started getting late but I wanted to get at least one Kodiak installed to make sure it was correct for the axles. Fit like a glove...now I will pack all the bearings and prepare the spindles for installation tomorrow.

The new tongue installed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2245.jpg

Installing the Kodiaks

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2248.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2249.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2250.jpg

I want tomorrows installation to go a bit quicker, so I packed the rear bearings and installed the rear seals on the rotor hubs. Pretty easy, I did have to cut open a cartridge of synthetic bearing lube since I could not find a tub...

Better on the benchtop than on the garage floor

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2251.jpg

ready to go

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_2252.jpg

Got any clamps? :)