I can't believe you would sell more "gassers" over a diesel/allison combo. The fuel economy alone would be enough, let alone the power and torque that the combination would provide. Finally, the longevity of the truck would be, I would have to say, at least 5 times as much!

I have noticed a lack of honesty sometimes with DP. I like Diesel World, they seem like an honest mag and they have good info and projects.

No suprises here:drink:

Duramax has been out pulling Ford and Dodge since 06.

This isn't the thoughts for HD's, just half tons

Think more along the lines of the fuel efficient specific half tons we sell now, but better.

sounds like you work at a gm dealership:grinser010:

Really?? Ever been to the Hill Country? I guarandamTEE you Dodges outnumber Fords and Chevys there. Those guys haul livestock and everything else and they prefer the Cummins seven out of ten trucks by my reckoning.

Go to www.ltlhotshot.myfreeforum.org and note how may Dodge owners are members there and how few Ford and Chevy owners are members.

Chevy won this test but in the real world of heavy towing the Duramax will not last. Not to mention the weak front suspension compared to the Ford and Dodge Dana solid axles.

I am happy for GM. I can say that any truck that is superior to my 2011 Ford is a great truck. Almost unbelievably better than my 06 Ford. We all will have more fun getting to the lake. American companies are buiding some great products. For those who haven't driven the latest trucks, have some fun and test drive one. You'll be surprised.

Also mention the Dodges are the cheapest and to a rancher/farmer that makes a difference when your truck is essentially a farm tool......

I have gasser 1500 pickups and I like the way they drive. The 5.3 motor hauls azz and gets 14 mpg working whereas my duramax gets 12's. Longevity means nothing to a soccer mom, she wants a new car whenever her friends/neighbors get one not when the old one wears out. GM 4.3/4.8/5.3 gas motors are all 300K+ motors if maintained.

Also mention the most reliable engine in its class, able to go 500,000 miles between overhauls.

So then you're comparing two completely different engines. What the heck are you saying? Not making a lot of sense to me.

You said you worked there and you "knew" or "could find out". That info is really pretty useless.

Posting on a truck forum, common sense would suggest that everyone is talking about the engine that they can buy... Not some secret product that employees are privileged to.

I fail to see your point. I was simply asking for help or really asking for some factual info.

This changes the subject.

I know how you feel but I think the fuel savings of the Duramax Package over a gas package is a little over rated.

It works but you'd have to keep the truck for a long time. Lots of people don't but some do.

Duramax upgrade - 7K
Allison upgrade (no option) close to 3K

Even when I was driving 30K - 40K miles per year it takes a LOT of driving to spend that 10K in fuel alone and that same 10K obviously has to be over and above the same miles in gas.

I don't know; the diesel is way nicer than gas but I don't think the consumption is the best piece to debate.

However, If I could have bought a Yukon with the Duramax in 2004, I think I probably would have.

I don't have strong facts to back this but I'm told that the LB7 injectors have been modified and if you have them replaced now or in the recent past, you are getting a "fixed" part that should not fail the same as it has in the past.

Best thing to do is keep an eye on your balance rates about every 50K miles.

So you assume he knows less than you about the 6.6 because it's not his specific program.....which I clearly was going to check on?

I don't have to ask him anything or tell you squat. You're welcome then.

I never assumed anyone knows less than me about this truck. I don't know much at all to be honest. Never claimed to either.

I wanted info on the 6.6 and your wording wasn't exactly clear so no offense.

Sure can tell when winter hits around here.

PS - you don't have to tell me anything you don't want to.

Thanks anyway -

:kiss:

No,

I was a 7.3 fan, still am. My 06 Max has seen the dealer once in 120k miles for a sticky egr valve, best vehicle I have ever owned.

Accountant wants me to go buy a new truck to get the section 179, I am not ready to be done with this truck yet.

Not a good business decision:drink:

Haha, I'm in a pissy mood due to reading some GM nonsense by the tea-party types out there I guess.

I'll ask him the deal, on the 6.6 injectors. He works in Pontiac with durability testing, etc so I expect some good insight from him.

Agreed, I have a Duramax and like it but there is no savings over a gas truck with diesel priced where its been. Unless you tow a lot of heavy loads it is a net loss. I get around 15-16 daily driving empty, got about 14-15 with the last gas truck I owned. With diesel 20 cents higher than gas here you will never make up the difference much less the extra cost of the diesel package. I love it for towing, and will keep it for that and truck use but for now I drive the car daily.

i drive in the hill country and mountains in my big truck (cummins equiped 2010 pete with a 13spd), out east/west/north/south/hot/cold/rain/shine/etc etc, i have NEVER had a dodge keep up with me when pulling grades. Dmaxs and powerstrokes only. Im not biast (although I own a LBZ 4x4 dually) all 3 have their good and bad. get your head out of diamlers azz and open your eyes dude. The reason they buy dodges are because they are cheap trucks. Why pay more for something your going to abuse. same reason people buy freightliner (which dodge and frieghtliner are owned by the same people), its a cheap truck that will get the job done. just sayn

Yes but you have a Cummins right? And it's probly bigger than the light duty 5.9 right? 8.3L or thereabouts? What's your hp/tq rating, something like 500-550/1200-1400?

You are way behind the times with Daimler. They haven't been involved with Chrysler/Dodge in five years or so, so it looks like you're the one with your head up your ass.

Yes Rams are cheaper and they will get the job done. They also have the best diesel for long-term heavy hauling. Just sayin'.

And the one thing you absolutely can't seem to understand is that everything you read on the internet is not necessarily true just because someone put it there. There is no assurance that because you were able to find a link that it somehow makes it factual.

Respectfully, how many trucks have you owned? Driven? Towed with for long distance? How many repairs have you endured? How may sets of tires have you personally bought after extensive consideration and comparison based on actually using and wearing them out?

You defend your ideas (most that I've read) based solely on what you read and you base your opinion of a truck on the idea that you owned one at some point.

Have you ever owned or towed any trailer that could max out the vehicles ability? Have you ever towed anything across the country more than once? Have you ever owned a truck like what you're talking about long enough to see "major" repairs come due?

You always do the majority of the talking but respectfully I never see, hear, or read where you've done much "doing".

All 3 of those trucks in question have some pretty serious issues when you crunch the purchase prices, maintenance and failures. Yeah, believe it or not, Dodge/Cummins pickups actually have some pretty big caveats. One that comes to mind is the fact that unless you buy the standard, you're gonna put a pretty expensive transmission in that thing if you're doing any "REAL" towing. So what did you tow and for how long?

Hey no one is perfect but it's frustrating to have people like you always running the pie hole and you've never really done much of anything except get enjoyment out of using a keyboard to stir people up.

I've engaged you several times to debate a topic but you never really finish anything. As soon as it gets down to facts or experienced based discussion, you're gone because you apparently have none.

So what's the deal? You owned a truck and you liked it so it's more powerful than anything else?

Personal feelings aside, over the last two to three years, you've destroyed any credibility you ever had with anything but you keep coming back as if to imply that anyone who reads your posts would ever care about anything you say.

Everyone here already knows that you think the Dodge is the best truck ever. No problem. Why keep up with the reminders? No one cares. It's a lonely world.

Aren't you old enough by now to be able to share experience rather than repeating what you read or what someone told you?

I don't know man. Just sayin'.

Now feel free to come back on the attack and call me to the carpet. I'll be honest.

Fwiw
 

Just going to point out some incorrect information, depending on your definition of expensive :

Dodge's dont need an expensive fully built transmission to pull heavy, in most cases a beefier triple disk torque converter ($1000-$1300) and a valve body with higher line pressure ($500-$700) is all you need. This goes for old and new models.

I'm sure you are right about what you've listed.

However, my comment is based on what I've seen up close and personal after many of those automatics actually failed.

Of course, circumstances will vary by quite a bit but i know of at least 6 Dodges that I can remember where the repairs were a lot more than $1,800.

Obviously, it could have been abuse, neglect, etc and in some cases a shop could be charging more than they should to drive up ticket cost especially when they think the customer can't or won't find out.

I've seen some Allisons like the one in my truck go bang too and that is costly as well.

Money is relative ain't it?

You realize his automatic response is "Cummins/Dodge" no matter what the question. There doesn't seem to be any point debating.

We all have our biases here, but some seem a bit beyond reason.......

Shops will take the path of least resisitance, especially if they have someone who doesnt know better. I've had 3 Dodge/Cummins now ( 95/02/05 ), and I added what I listed to them. I've never had a transmission failure, and my GWR's have all been between 23,000 to 26,000. I'll gladly spend 2Gish to have a near bullet-proof set-up when it comes to a powertrain.

Anyway, I do still like the stats and the look's of the '11 GMC dually's...may have to stop down and take a closer look at one.

I checked out the 2011 in South Bay. I think the Chevy's are having a lot of trouble with the new emmision stuff on it.

Be sure to ask about if you are interested at all. Under that hood is pretty busy.

I did see the urea tank for the exhaust. Crazy.

:coolcowboy: I understand

my opinion, buy what you think looks good and you like...fix the known problems before they happen as to not leave you stranded. Every truck/engine/body has its own set of problems. With forums, such as OSO, you can find out what the weak links are for your vehicle and fix it. with the help of tuners, aftermarket transmission kits etc etc, any of the 3 will get you up a MOUNTAIN (not hill) with ease. just sayn

Wow I don't know what brought that on. :eek: Let me see if I can respond...

1. I've used the Internet as just one tool among others to find out the best truck for my needs. I went to the Big Three diesel websites to read what they say. I talked to lots of guys and drove the Big Three diesels. I kept coming back to Dodge so I bought them.

The best TRUCK for long hauling is the Ford(however, the 2010 Ram has been greatly improved). The best ENGINE is the Cummins. You'll see Cummins swaps in Ford and GM trucks, but I've never heard of a Dmax or Powerstroke put into a Dodge.

2. I have owned four trucks; a 1987 Ford F250 SC 6.9L IDI 4 speed manual, a 1998 Ford Ranger SC 5 speed auto, a 2003 Dodge 3500 quad cab SRW 4 speed auto and a 2006 Dodge quad cab dually 6 speed manual. I hauled construction materials with the F250 for 6 years, ran hot shot for four years and towed my boat with the Ranger, gave it to my oldest son and bought the 03 Dodge to tow my boat, hauled cars with the 06 for three years.

3. As for trannies, the F250 and the dually had the best ones. I didn't like the 4 speed auto in the 03 because it was a "lazy shifter". I felt like anything over about 10,000lbs would put a big strain on it. I never had a problem with the Ranger's tranny, even hauling a 600lb pallet in the bed for 20 miles. As Jamie B. said, Dodge automatics are cheap and easy to upgrade. Ford probly has the strongest auto of the Big Three. I've heard of 500hp Powerstrokes with stock transmissions doing very well, but throw enough power at them and they will all fail, even the vaunted Allison.

4. My favorite truck is a tie between the old Ford and the 03 Dodge. Each of my trucks had its strengths and weaknesses but for comfort and convenience, those two were the best. I wish they were in my driveway right now.

5. For tires the best I've had were Michelins, Goodyears and Bridgestones in that order.

It's late I'm done.

I just bought 2011 3500 hd dually and have no problems with emmisions, yes need to put urea under the hood no big deal. I got rid of my 3500 ford , chevy much nicer truck IMO and i am a ford guy having owned many.

What year was the Ford...you are comparing old platform, motor and tranny vs new...and when the new Dodge comes out they have the new Ford and GM as a benchmark to improve..

What do you hear about the 2012 Rams as far as hp/tq upgrades? They can't let Ford and GM get too far ahead in those areas. They've probly lost sales already because of their lower numbers...

[Yep looks like more power and tq for 2012, plus a new 6.4 Hemi]

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/11...s-in-2012.html

Im hearing 380hp and 770-775 torque.. They are the lightest as of now of the three, so that it puts it right there on the perf. end. Supposedely they are beefing up their frame with new material that is lighter and stronger so weight will only go up slightly. Interior has been freshened in 10 so that will remain the same, a few tire and wheel changes, larger brakes, and a beefier grill

may ford is/was 2008,, fuel milage on it was poor it took me 10 stops to fuel pulling the founain 34 cc from detroit to fort myers every 2 hours stop, with the 2011 chevy is took 5 stops. chevy pulled it great the jake brake on the gm was awsome through the mountains.. the new fords and rams are great but i am now a chevy guy... btw the brakes on the ford suck...

Again your comparing the 6.4 Ford against what you have now which is a great truck..and a new platform and new generation diesel..,,the 08 6.6 Duramax was slightly better by .5mpg vs the 6.4 Ford.. I had both 08 Ford and Gmc diesels, traded in for 11 250, 350 Ford and 2500Gmc. The new diesels from both Ford and GM are vastly improved in all areas, from mileage, towing and comfort.

Does Dodge and GM offer something like the F450?

Yes they do. The Ram 4500-5500 comes in cab and chassis only so you would have to buy an aftermarket bed.

http://www.allpar.com/trucks/chassis-cab.html

Ferd!

there is no substitute.....



never mind.. that was Porsche':grinser010:

gas vs. diesel
 

Just thought that I'd repeat what I read in a diesel mag (don't remember which one) debating the need for a diesel vs. gas. The article read "calculating all costs, from the higher purchase price to the higher registration fees, higher fuel prices, etc., the purchase of a diesel over a gas engine is unwarranted unless you pull a minimum of 15,000 lbs at least 7,500 miles per year". Don't know if there is a lot of truth to this, I don't tow that much weight or nearly that far yearly but I did buy a diesel mainly for the incredible pulling power and also the "cool" factor.

Yeah well who gives a rat's patootie what the diesel mag pundits have to say. Diesel fanatics know why they buy them.

I grew up in the town where they started the test from (Silverthorne). Been over that pass like 10k times. It is a pretty narly grade, i mostly tow snowmobiles over it. The next pass is Vail an that is steeper on the west side. My parents used to pull our 24 searay over with a 6 cylinder f150 at around 20mph. Cool test.