Chevy Dominates Ford in Tow Test - pickuptrucks.com
 

My title is slightly paraphrased, but read the comparison.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/11...e-rockies.html

They originally (first test) picked the GM trucks because they rode better and towed better, turns out in the real world they flat kill the Ford when doing what they're built to do. Towed up a long past much faster, and the exhaust brake was FAR more effective.

Let me say it for the Ford fanboys, government motors is ran by Obama, Ford is approved by the tea party so it is the only choice. ;)

Disclaimer: I'm a GM employee. I also think both these trucks are awesome, and will more than perform up to what 99% of the public could throw at them.

Whatever the circumstances, both Ford and GM, and I guess even Dodge, are making much better trucks and engines than just two years ago. Competition is nice, competency is even better.

I've made a ton of money on Ford options, GM I just don;t know. But pretty soon, at least three truck companies will be publicly owned.

A few points I will agree with, and only cause I own both and drive them regulary. The exhaust brake on the Ford is not nearly as good as the GM's...and actually the new Dodge I feel is even better.. after doing some research I feel after re-reading the article and looking at the results. Ford's tune on the 6.7 needs work on fuel calibrations for altitude or the Duramax turbo is a better match to the engine at altitude. Both trucks are evenly matched down at 5200 ft. in Denver where they were dyno'd.
Note that as the altitude increased, the gap in speed between the GM and Ford also increased. Competition is great and will make all these trucks get better, that helps us all in the long run.

I like both trucks. I do get a kick out of the new Chevy commercials showing the new PS as a baby girl.

Now if Gm could make their own engine or trans they may have something. Gm heads, cranks, rods all come from Japan. :eek: Not to mention Isuzu, who designed the engine is a 40% owner in the duramax plant. :eek: So Obama and Japan have their part in you new chevy. Congrats!!!

But those GD injectors. I much prefer the older dmax compared to the new ones with all that smog stuff they are fighting with... water injection etc..

But man, been through 3 tear downs for injectors and I don't think they've made any changes to the part so that it doesn't keep happening after swapping out.

For GM, I'd have to say you certainly want the LLY (2006).

Slightly better engine and the 6th gear in the Allison is enabled.

But after the LLY, things go the "other" way. There really isn't a perfect 3/4 ton pickup without some pretty big caveats.

I've kept my truck bone stock except for one size bigger tires. Can't imagine all the issues I'd have with tuners and I came real close to buying one.

2004 - 152K miles. for the price of the LB7 injectors and labor you could buy a real decent used car! I like the truck but it's frustrating to keep dealing with this.

Do any of you know whether or not you can change the tire setting for the LB7 using the Tech II ?

The LBZ was the best DMax motor IMO.

The above is not accurate.....

DMAX of Moraine, Ohio is a manufacturer of Diesel engines for trucks.Originally A joint venture between General Motors and Isuzu Motors, the formation of DMAX was announced in December 1998. General Motors acquired a majority stake of the venture in 2003, including all engine designs. The company's Duramax V8 engine has been extremely successful for GM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMAX_%28engines%29

The Duramax is a great motor!

Thanks for clarifying what was clearly a pathetic attempt at trolling, or else just a painfully misinformed tea party nut job. I'd love to see the source that this motor has those parts from Japan.....

GM employees develop and work on all D-max programs.

This has been the reaction from most the Ford fanboy camp. Somehow doing it in the mountains is "rigging" it for GM. Here's why I feel that's nonsense:
-Both are turbos and therefore less impacted by atmospheric pressure.
-The GM trucks were better in the first tests at sea level.
-Where else but "the mountains" will you see the worst conditions this comparison emulates......making it quite relevant.

Best yet, Ford themselves actually pulled that trick in running a comparo for the MKS w/ ecoboost to a 550i and other non turbo competition in the mountains (and still didn't win).

The peak numbers, that Ford is tweaked for and advertising mean nothing. The area under the power curve is what matters. As explained by a GM engineer to me who works on Dmax programs (in Pontiac - not Japan or Isuzu for the misinformed out there) our total power curve blows them away. GM obviously knew this, hence the reason for the challenge. Ford knows this too, which is why the declined to participate in the challenge.

So, you out tow, get better mileage, ride better, get way better exhaust brakes and look like a purposeful truck in a proven and dependable combination. I'm guessing it's back to the drawing board already for the 6.7 guys!

No problem.....I love GM products and will always defend them against this type of attack.

Hmm

Is that worse than a Dodge made in Mexico?

All Dodge 2500/3500's are made in Santillo, Mexico......:eek:

My 03 was covered under the "extended" powertrain warranty, GM extended the warranty on injectors to 200K miles or 7 years. Original injectors were changed at 145K miles, 163K now with no issues.

Check out the current issue of Diesel Power for yourself as they tour the Duramax plant. This info is straight out of their magazine. December 2010 pg. 60-69. I don't just throw random B.S. out for fun. :grinser010:

They said Isuzu designed the engine.......?

What exactly did they say, who is this mystery supplier in Japan of the internals? Hell, give me the part numbers and I'll check for myself exactly where they come from tomorrow.

Allison Transmission is an American company;

Allison began in 1909 when James A. Allison, along with three business partners, helped found and build the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. In 1911, Allison’s new track held the first Indianapolis 500 mile race. In addition to funding several race teams, Jim Allison established his own racing team in 1915 and quickly gained a reputation for his work on race cars and automotive technology in general.[2]

When World War I began, Allison suspended racing and his company began machining parts, tools and masters for the Liberty airplane engine — the main power plant used in the U.S. war effort. After the war, Allison entered a car in the 1919 Indy 500 and won. It was the last race Allison’s team ever entered. Instead, he turned his company’s attention to aviation engineering. The company’s expertise in aviation was the major factor in General Motors decision to buy the company following Jim Allison’s death in 1928.[3][4][5]

Shortly after the sale to General Motors in 1929, Allison engineers began work on a 12-cylinder engine to replace the aging Liberty engines. The result was the V1710 12-cylinder aircraft engine and it made the company, now known as the Allison Engine Company, a major force in aviation.[6]

Toward the end of World War II, General Motors formed Allison Transmission to put the engineers’ expertise to work in a new field — power transmissions for tracked military vehicles. The new division developed a transmission combining range change, steering and braking.[7][8]

After World War II, Allison Transmission turned its attention to powering the civilian transportation market. Allison designed, developed and manufactured the first-ever automatic transmissions for heavy-duty vehicles like delivery trucks, city buses and even locomotives. The days of laborious manual shifting were over and a new, modern era of commercial transportation was ushered in.[8][9]

I know Allision is an American Company, I was unaware that GM had anything to do with Allison other than using them as a supplier for transmissions.

Mine says "made in Japan" all over it... And a LOT of the AC/Delco Parts that I have bought says "made in China, Mexico, etc"... We don't seem to make much of anything here anymore except degenerate kids and degenerate politicians.

But I don't care. I think the japs make good stuff. It's not a good thing for our country I suppose but they still make good stuff. Just consider a Kubota compared to????? Night and day.

However, the Duramax is an Isuzu Engine. GM owns Allison for a while now.

I used to have a 1978 bright yellow Chevy "Luv" mini truck with an Isuzu Engine in it. It gave me fewer problems than my 2004.

Truth is: I was a fool for buying a 1st generation product with a price point that high. I tried not to but there were NO used Chevy Diesels when I purchased. I took a chance and it has not been the best decision I ever made. It's still a good truck but it will take a LOT of selling for any of the big 3 to have me get off that kinda dough again.

If you have such close ties to GM, would you be willing to find out if the injectors have in fact, been upgraded or modified?

And is there a reason why they can't or won't provide "new" injectors instead of "re-mans"? Money is usually the driver of such decisions but damn....

The GM Book pays/bills out something like 18+ hours to change 8 fuel injectors @ 120 per hour NOT INCLUDING THE PRICE OF THE INJECTORS ($235 each after core return).

Flippin' crazy.

Yeah I figured you knew. I checked Wiki and decided to post that interesting information about Allison's history.

"The forged-steel crankshafts begin life at a Sumitomo plant in Japan. They arrive at the DMAX plant in this raw state and are machined, balanced, and nitrided (case hardened) onsite."
"Isuzu casts the aluminum heads in Japan, and they arrive in Ohio in this unfinished form."
"The forged-steel connecting rods also come from Japan, and they're machined at the DMAX plant."
All info from the current issue of Diesel Power.

You chevy guys sure are sensitive. :grinser010:

Gimme a small Caterpillar or Cummins with an Allison in a Chevy Body with Ford box and rear springs.

But why bother? With the price of the new pickukps, just move up a class and have a real truck for a lot less money per power, weight, options, etc..

My guy is taking good care of me but I wanted to keep this thing for a long time.

At this rate, I'll need another injector job right at about 200K. My warranty expires next month.

I am however, shocked by how well they made the braking system on my truck. 152k miles on original brakes and they are about 20% worn.

I'm 3/4 of the way through my second set of tires.

Unbelievable!

But those Bosh Injectors are crap and nothing will shorten the life of an engine like dumping fuel in the oil all the time...

Ok, got my tissue. I'm done complaining.

Brakes are great.....got 134K out of the first set only because a wheel bearing went bad. I told my guy to change the pads rather than put it back together w/ old parts. My LTX Michelins are good for 60K a set in S. FL, that is a milestone.

Thanks for the details. Sounds like the origin is Japan w/ quite a bit of value add done in Ohio.

with truck assembled in Flint! :D

I don't have "ties to GM", I work there.:drink:

The guy I know who works D Max stuff isn't involved in the 6.6......:party-smiley-004: I'll ask him next time we hang out though about the injectors as he'll likely know.

Parts are sourced globally, but the majority are still US based. Luckily a lot of parts are too big/heavy to ship economically so it keeps some jobs here. I am hopeful (and have reason to believe) more parts will be coming back here in the future.

Well,,,,,,, which Duramax are you talking? Every single version of it in the light trucks are all 6.6 Litre.

While you're at it, about the injectors, why don't you find out why they won't even offer a DMAX/Allison combo in the Suburban/Yukon XL? Even if you had to order the damn combo, maybe the morons at GM would finally get their heads out of their asses, and build a useful SUV! I mean as far as I know, the Presidents Fleet of Secret Service vehicles has this combo, now why can't we?

1) The Allison won't fit between the SUV's frame rails as built by GM.
2) They don't. They drive 6.2L 2500s. (They had the 8.1L versions before that.)
3) Google "duraburb"

burbcummins are popular too.

Couldn't agree more. I've owned 3 and definately love my LBZ. I'll avoid the new model with all the emissions. Not a fan of having to put urea in a engine.

you will only be able to avoid it so long....it's not that bad, just costly. Actually, we drive 35-40k a year per truck, and previous years I was changing oil at 5k..now with the new motors it lets you know when its time to change depending on use..more highway, city and or pulling. Its been averaging 7k miles on both trucks, GMC and Ford...so when you throw that into the cost equation, its about the same.

It is not a production engine.....about all I'll say. ;)

edit: actually I believe the 4.5 is common knowledge, just can't talk about the status.

This has been studied. The cost to make it work kills the business case, as the demographic that would buy these (although diehards) isn't big enough to recoup the investments.

It isn't quite just drop it in and sell it unfortunately. I think it would be a bad ass setup.

Diesel Power ??
 

Diesel Power ? That magazine has stated things as fact on more than one occassion that have not been true.

I'm not saying this particular acticle is littered with misinformation, but I'd certainly not believe what you read in that magazine as gospel.

Back on topic : I really like the look and stats of the 2011 GMC dually's, which is hard for me to say since I've been a Cummins/Dodge guy.

Dodge has something coming out in about 9 mos..and I think they have the best looking truck of the 3.. and Im a Ford and GM man.

Too late now! :D

Glad a clean balance sheet will bring the cobwebs off. And when they bolt a 6L90 behind it, it'll fit in the SUVs.

The Allison might be great, but I see no reason why a mild Dmax wouldn't work with a nicely prepped 4L85. That's my plan at least...

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about production happening for anything just yet.:eek:

I'm hoping the right decisions are made and finalized.

However, fuel economy is the name of the game in the future, and the US gov is pushing hybrids and setting up the regulations in that manner.......