Ram 1500 Diesel
02-15-2013 | 05:56 PM
#21
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From: Royal Oak, MI
Im not sure as to why you would think that toyota just introducing an gd tundra that they are all of the sudden going to challenge a market that is completely dominated by the big 3. One thing and the only thing that thing that the big 3 has never relinquished dominance of is the full size truck market. Also its well documented that toyota and nissan serverly underestimated the owner loyalty among truck buyers. I would also like to add that ford sells roughly 50k f series truck monthly. Chevy 35k and dodge 25k. Toyota doesn't crack 10k on a monthly basis. So how do you figure that toyota will now put a huge dent in a class that they are dominated more then 10-1?
GM was pretty far down the 4.5 d-max path but decided the new gen V is actually a better solution making it unnecessary. I don't know exactly what that entails unfortunately.
02-15-2013 | 10:07 PM
#22
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From: Baltimore md
The diesel vs gas debate is interesting for sure.... you can make a great arguement for both. The ecoboost was revolutionary to the 1/2 ton market and its nice to see someone do something like this. Good for dodge.
02-16-2013 | 10:36 AM
#23
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From: Royal Oak, MI
Have they announced the price? If it is a huge option cost that will really make the numbers tough to pan out. Their hemi isn't exactly weak so it would have to save a lot of gas if it's an expensive option. I don't know how it wouldn't be seeing all the emissions equipment etc.
02-16-2013 | 12:09 PM
#24
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From: Perry Lake, KS Lake of Ozarks
Im not sure as to why you would think that toyota just introducing an gd tundra that they are all of the sudden going to challenge a market that is completely dominated by the big 3. One thing and the only thing that thing that the big 3 has never relinquished dominance of is the full size truck market. Also its well documented that toyota and nissan serverly underestimated the owner loyalty among truck buyers. I would also like to add that ford sells roughly 50k f series truck monthly. Chevy 35k and dodge 25k. Toyota doesn't crack 10k on a monthly basis. So how do you figure that toyota will now put a huge dent in a class that they are dominated more then 10-1?
Agree, Tundra's frame is a weakness in extreme circumstances but lets face it, few 1500 and 2500 owners come anywhere close to taxing the ability of thier truck. (There will always be darwin award segment that clearly push the limits)
Agree, it is unlikely Toyota will overtake the Big 3 in the near future in the 1500+ market as it sits today. Big 3 are very heavy into fleet sales that Toyota has historically not discounted prices in exchange for volume. Truck sales are also skewed by the heavy influences of union, trade and male brand ignorance (loyalty).
Tundra has also not added a frame capable of an 8' bed Crew cab. Important for fleet sales but less in the higher profit consumer market.
Better check the sales stats.
January 2013 - http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/02...uck-sales.html
Ford 46,800.
GM 48,300 (Chevy 35,400. GMC 12,900)
Dodge 20,500
Toyota 18,600* Tundra 7,000. Tacoma 11,600. *None of the big 3 produced a soild "Midsized" product so the market was abandoned (also helping drive total 1/2ton sales higher) Tacoma is close in capability to 1/2ton's of old.
Note Ford with its "revolutionary" Eco only saw a small "boost" but is now lagging with sales increases of only 20% while GM and Toyota are enjoying over 30% increases YOY.
Dodge is also down but if buzz holds, they should see late year increases with the new tooling.
Ford barely out sold GM in 2012. 645,300 to 644,900. (a stastically insignificant diffence that could have been a last minute fleet dump with hopes to gain advertising bragging for another year)
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/t...s-figures.html
Last edited by ChargeIt; 02-16-2013 at 12:19 PM.
02-16-2013 | 02:32 PM
#25
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 420
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From: Baltimore md
Understand my post. Challenge dominance does not mean dominate. Toyota taking a couple points from the Big 3 will cause ripples though the trade pubs and investement markets.
Agree, Tundra's frame is a weakness in extreme circumstances but lets face it, few 1500 and 2500 owners come anywhere close to taxing the ability of thier truck. (There will always be darwin award segment that clearly push the limits)
Agree, it is unlikely Toyota will overtake the Big 3 in the near future in the 1500+ market as it sits today. Big 3 are very heavy into fleet sales that Toyota has historically not discounted prices in exchange for volume. Truck sales are also skewed by the heavy influences of union, trade and male brand ignorance (loyalty).
Tundra has also not added a frame capable of an 8' bed Crew cab. Important for fleet sales but less in the higher profit consumer market.
I agree with you on many points, but you proved my statistical data for me. And not sure why the tacoma would be added to this equation when you are tal
Better check the sales stats.
January 2013 - http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/02...uck-sales.html
Ford 46,800.
GM 48,300 (Chevy 35,400. GMC 12,900)
Dodge 20,500
Toyota 18,600* Tundra 7,000. Tacoma 11,600. *None of the big 3 produced a soild "Midsized" product so the market was abandoned (also helping drive total 1/2ton sales higher) Tacoma is close in capability to 1/2ton's of old.
Note Ford with its "revolutionary" Eco only saw a small "boost" but is now lagging with sales increases of only 20% while GM and Toyota are enjoying over 30% increases YOY.
Dodge is also down but if buzz holds, they should see late year increases with the new tooling.
Ford barely out sold GM in 2012. 645,300 to 644,900. (a stastically insignificant diffence that could have been a last minute fleet dump with hopes to gain advertising bragging for another year)
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/t...s-figures.html
Agree, Tundra's frame is a weakness in extreme circumstances but lets face it, few 1500 and 2500 owners come anywhere close to taxing the ability of thier truck. (There will always be darwin award segment that clearly push the limits)
Agree, it is unlikely Toyota will overtake the Big 3 in the near future in the 1500+ market as it sits today. Big 3 are very heavy into fleet sales that Toyota has historically not discounted prices in exchange for volume. Truck sales are also skewed by the heavy influences of union, trade and male brand ignorance (loyalty).
Tundra has also not added a frame capable of an 8' bed Crew cab. Important for fleet sales but less in the higher profit consumer market.
I agree with you on many points, but you proved my statistical data for me. And not sure why the tacoma would be added to this equation when you are tal
Better check the sales stats.
January 2013 - http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2013/02...uck-sales.html
Ford 46,800.
GM 48,300 (Chevy 35,400. GMC 12,900)
Dodge 20,500
Toyota 18,600* Tundra 7,000. Tacoma 11,600. *None of the big 3 produced a soild "Midsized" product so the market was abandoned (also helping drive total 1/2ton sales higher) Tacoma is close in capability to 1/2ton's of old.
Note Ford with its "revolutionary" Eco only saw a small "boost" but is now lagging with sales increases of only 20% while GM and Toyota are enjoying over 30% increases YOY.
Dodge is also down but if buzz holds, they should see late year increases with the new tooling.
Ford barely out sold GM in 2012. 645,300 to 644,900. (a stastically insignificant diffence that could have been a last minute fleet dump with hopes to gain advertising bragging for another year)
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/t...s-figures.html
02-16-2013 | 03:29 PM
#27
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Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Baltimore md
Also in no way shape or form am I stating that toyota doesn't make a quality truck. Just not for me. Also not sure where the union comes into effect when it comes to truck sales. The union loyalty wore off decades ago when it comes to this country.
02-16-2013 | 08:14 PM
#28
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 390
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From: Perry Lake, KS Lake of Ozarks
The data you produced is exactly what I said. And if you combine gmc and chevy then sure there close. My statement was not to detract chevy in any way shape or form. It was to remind you how far behind toyota is in this market and let's all agree to leave the tacoma out of this discussion considering this was a half ton debate.
50k = 47k?
35 does = 35 but only a person looking to skew the numbers does not include identical platform models by the same mfg.
25k = 20k?
Guess those are close enough tolarances for a Ford.
I was originally willing to concede Tacoma but looking at Tacoma's 1350# payload vs several of Ford's f150 offerings from 1360# payload; GM 1500 models as low as 1510#; Dodge 1500 from 1385#; the Taco is right in the mix.
Tacoma's conservative tow rating of 3500# is probably not that far off from the Big 3's notorious over rated figures.
http://assets.forddirect.fordvehicle...872D808A87.pdf
http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado-1..._long_box.html
http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/
http://www.toyota.com/tacoma/feature...7182/7153/7153
When I was with FedEx sales, the reps that covered vehicle mfg plants made sure to drive respective mfg models when calling on the mfg, otherwise they were asked to leave their vehicle in an outside lot and be driven in.
02-17-2013 | 05:40 PM
#29
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 420
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From: Baltimore md
I said ROUGHLY 50,000!!!!!!!!! Which unless im not using the same numerical system you are then 47k is oftly damn close to 50k!!!!!! Also where did you get the payload numbers on the ford f150????? You can get the f150 with a 3k lb payload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And as I stated before I wasn't pushing the FORD product because I don't have to, they sell just fine without me!!!!!! Just simply saying that the big three overwhelmingly dominate the full size truck market and guess what, im pretty freakin proud of that. Also why is it a discredit to the big three for selling a sh!t ton of fleets? Sounds like a great sales strategy to me and maybe toyota should start hitting that area of the market harder?
02-18-2013 | 12:02 PM
#30
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,347
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From: Thousand Islands area
the simple fact of buying a yota is like going to a pizza store to buy chinese food. Just not going to happen. Toyota may or may not make a good truck, but nothing I have seen that makes them better than anybody else, maybe on par. Most toyotas seem to be bought by guys that use them for grocery getters or own a corolla as well.
