Diesel Thoughts???
 

Hey guys...

I am trying to descide what I want to do..

I have a 2004 chevy 2500hd 4x4 6.0 gasser. It has 4.10 gears so pulling is no problem. But the gas mileage sucks! 8-10mpg

I am thinking about getting a diesel. I live in northern mn so 4x4 is a must. But I have heard many different thoughts about 7.3 ford diesel and 6.0. Thoughts on them?

Also I hear Diesels after 2006 have pretty bad mpg because of emissions crap?

Final thought.... Single rear wheel or dually?

I am usually towing my 27 fountain or a 30 enclosed race trailer.

I am chevy guy but I love fords also.. Something about straight axels just means bullet proof!!

I have heard lots of horror stories on the 6.0, I would stay away from them. I have two of the 6.7s and love them. Ave around 13 mpg with them pulling lawn equipment and driving everyday use. If I try I can get ave mpg up to 15.5 but my foot is heavy. When I haul my boat 12.5k to 14k depeneding on fuel I get 9.9-10.2 at 80-85 mph. If you want better fuel mileage you can take a plasma torch and cut off exhaust crap including the filter and place straight exhaust. My dad did this on his 450 and mpg went up 2 mpg.

I have single rear wheel and it handles the 38 with no problems.

My buddy has a couple of the new Duramaxs for his concrete company and said he is getting 15-16 mpg hauling heavy enclosed trailer around town.

Mileage didn't drop as much from emissions as it did from the big 3 jacking up factory hp in the hp wars of who is king and even then we are not talking much drop over earlier ones. As far as dually's go, I see your in Minn, if you plan on towing sleds or driving it much in winter duallys drive like a total POS unless you have tires with 1" of tread on them and are in 4wd, Smitty

I just picked up a 2013 ram and love it. 2500 single axle 4x4. I'm adveraging 20 mpg. It's 850 ft lbs of torque from the factory.

I had a F350 7.3 and it pulled my 33 PowerPlay well. I had no issues with the single axle at all but then again I was careful towing it, nice and easy was the prescription. It was a trailer boat so it saw plenty of town use as well as highway. Without question though, you know you're pulling a big load behind you, I'd probably go dually if it were any larger. I never calculated gas mileage because it's not that I didn't care but worrying about gas mileage while towing a boat that probably burns 50 gals per hour seemed pointless.

As a comparison I have a F250 now with the V10, it pulled the boat fine except on the highway which is when you really notice the difference. The diesel definitely has the big advantage on the highway and hills which there's no shortage of here in CT.

Towing a 27 Fountain will be no issue at all with the single axle...none. Get the block heater if you go diesel though. You should be able to tow with confidence in a F350 7.3 if you can find one in excellent condition.

The only issue I had in 100k miles were the o-rings on the injectors failed and I was blowing more smoke than a coal factory until the block heated up. I got it fixed for about $2500 if I recall correctly. You'll have to be careful with those transmissions mated to the 7.3 though, they were definitely the weak link in the drivetrain. Had to get mine rebuilt with an extreme duty build, never looked back...however that was a nice little tag too...$3k I think for that one. Got sick of pouring good money into an old truck (it was a '99) so I bought the new one.

Dodge ram srw with the cummins...got a friend that has one with a 5 speed,,if he keeps it at 55 mpg he gets 27 mpg,,70 ish 22 mpg,,towing 16 mpg..

I have a feeling the Dodge diesel stick gets about the best mileage. I had a dodge truck before and there was nothing about it that impressed me BUT recently we rebuilt a manual transmission in a 2006 Dodge diesel dually four wheel drive mega cab with 380,000 miles and on a 40 mile test drive saw 26 mpg at 62-65 mph empty, I can squeeze 20-21 out of my 08 Duramax SRW at 58 mph babying it empty but quickly drops to mid 15's once into throttle or start and stop driving, Smitty

I have owned both the 6.0 diesel, a 7.3 diesel now, and my dads got a LBZ duramax. The 6.0, what a pile (mine included with 185k). I know personally about 10 6.0s and they all have issues exceeding $5000. The 7.3 I have now is awesome. Runs great (202k). I absolutley love it. My dads LBZ has been 100% trouble free as well (155k).

05' or 06' Duramax, pre emission crap and the 06 or 07 classic has the 6 speed Allison. Tranny shifts like a TRS drive nice and smooth. Get efi live and up you mpg. I'd go with srw too. I had a 02' 2500hd silverado with the 6.0 and I love my 06' duramax the Allison is great while towing. It will help you slow down while towing.

My 13 ram came with a factory exhaust brake. It is the best thing I have ever had when towing that I never though of getting. My travel trailer or boats both feel like nothing is behind me stopping or going.

I concur. I saw a little over 16 towing my Nordic today. If I am on the highway with no load, she gets mid 20s. I am deleted and tuned and its not very "hilly' here in Central Texas. Also, exhaust brake, greatest thing EVER! Especially with no exhaust crap to choke out my turbo sounds.

single rears if ya like goin tru automatic car washes...... dwr u r goin to have to doit yourself

We have gone over this several times in the past. There are some very informative threads here on OSO.

Biggest questions:
Is new an option? Or definitely used?
What is the budget?
Given your locale, do you have electrical access where you park the truck in the winter so you can keep it plugged in? (oil heater)

11 Dmax Srw here and love it. Get's 19-22 hwy depending on Speed. Towing gets 15-17 depending on foot. Allison is Awesome and the Turbo Brake is the best
of all the big three.

Are these mpg figures what you are seeing on the computer while going down the road or your average for a tank of fuel?

You know fill it up, reset the trip, then when you refill check how many mpg?

07 was the last year without the DPF and emissions restrictions so it was 08 and later that killed MPG. I had and F250 6.4 and a 07 6.0. 6.4 got 13mpg best don't matter what, and I have heard the new engine on the ford isn't any better. Now my old 6.0 got around 14-15 and that was with bigger wheels.

Might want to look up the weights on what your hauling, and check out the 1/2 market. I tow a 29 fountain with an eco boost and works great and I get an avg of 17mpg, 20 plus HWY.

I am very happy with my 6.4 Ford. Not sure what your budget is but I think one of those deleted will be reliable and make a great truck, with decent mileage and power galore. I still have several months on my warranty so I haven't deleted, and am just running the H&S in Street tune, but am looking forward to this fall when I can rip that emissions crap off.

As for the SRW/DRW debate - that is all personal preference. I like dually because I see NO disadvantage to having it (and I don't count the cost of two extra tires every 75-100k miles to be a disadvantage)

I have a 08 SWR duramax, had cat/dpf delete and egr block off before I got it, I had a EFI live done by duramax tuner and the truck is great, gets about 16 towing, not taking it easy...engine brake done by EFI live is unreal, had a 05 same truck before...like the ride MUCH better with the 08...

You know fill it up, reset the trip, then when you refill check how many mpg?[/QUOTE]

What he^^^ said ! That's the ONLY way to ck mpg. This 18 to 20+ I call WishOmeter--- Maybe on a Flatbed being towed to shop- Maybe!

Here's an objective way to get an idea of what fuel economy trucks are getting. I'd like to see what a few of you guys get using this:

http://www.fuelly.com/car/dodge/ram%...13/diesel%20l6

Looks like 16-18 for a 2013 Cummins is the average.

Edit:

I gotta add, the Eco Boost real world numbers aren't very impressive. I think I'd rather have a Cummins for similar MPG.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-150/2013/gas%20v6

06 or 07 classic GMC or Chevy which has duramax LBZ. The best version of the duramax with no emission crap and fuel injectors for ultra low sulfur diesel. 6 speed Allison.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duramax_V8_engine

What he^^^ said ! That's the ONLY way to ck mpg. This 18 to 20+ I call WishOmeter--- Maybe on a Flatbed being towed to shop- Maybe![/QUOTE]

we used GPS,,paid no attention to the dream meter's!!

Mine is hand calc. The Avg on the computer is off usually by 1mpg or so.

I'm curious what the real market is for new 4x4 Cummins. What are you guys paying new? The last Dodge I bought came down almost 10 Gs

I know I personally with no haggling was able to get a 2500HD Cummins for the price of a decently loaded 1500, however that is with my Cummins discount, though I'm not sure where that actually stacks up to the rest)

I didn't actually buy it, was just looking at new trucks and figured I'd look into it.

Me personally, I'm waiting to hear pricing on the EcoDiesel or the new titan. The half ton with a turbo v8 cummins really has me interested :)

Diesel will pull stronger than gas, but don't get one for the fuel mileage savings. The last time I calculated the break even on buying a diesel truck vs a gas truck, it was around 100,000 miles, and that was years ago when the premium for a diesel engine was only about $4,000. It's more now.

Buy a diesel because you want one, because it pulls stronger, but don't be silly enough to buy one for the mileage savings, cause the numbers don't work. You'll spend dollars to save dimes.

Exactly!! We buy them to pull our big azz chit down the road to the lake so we can burn $500+ worth of fuel in an afternoon.
MPGs !!!? get a Honda

That's the spirit!!!!

I like you have been waiting with fingers crossed and they came out with this http://enr.construction.com/products...ram-trucks.asp

Rams website confirms it. Kind of a let down really. As you can only tow 9200lbs which is less than the silverado, Ram hemi, and F150 Eco boost and 5.0 engines. Has more than 100 less HP than the other three trucks , same torque as the ecobost and only around 40 more torque than the silverado and f150 5.0, and only 13 more torque than the Ram Hemi.

Factor in a 10k mile year in driving. We will use 30 gallon gas tank just to make the numbers nice, we will go with the high numbers for MPG which ram ecodiesel says 25MPG, Chevy, Ford and Ram average to about 22MPG HWY. Gas is $3.7 and diesel is $4 here, which it might be different in other places, but you can assume diesel is 10% or more per gallon wherever you are. Either way this calculation was just using HWY miles the Eco Diesel came in at $1560 a year and the other three would cost you about $1665 so a savings of $95 dollars or a 7% savings but thats assuming diesel is only 10% higher I have seen it cost 40-50 cents higher.

But now we have to figure in the upcharge on the ecodiesel, the eco boost cost an extra $1700 and even more on some packages and people have said the ecodiesel is going to be a 3-4 grand upcharge. So even if you use the low number it would take you 31 years to make up the upcharge with a 7% savings in fuel economy. Then factor in your oil changes will cost more, fuel filter replacement once or twice a year probably no savings a year at all. After breaking it down you get a vehicle that is going to cost you more up front, not going to save on fuel, and cant tow more than the rest, really is a dumb buy if you start looking at it.

To me in order to make sense it would have to be class leading in towing and get about 26/29-30HWY in order to make it worthwile.

Do not even consider a 6.0 Ford. I came from a 03 Escalade with a 6.0 gas and thought it pulled fine until I bought a 2011 Duramax. There is no comparison. I have now traded for a 13 model Duramax 2500 4x4 and would never go back to a gas truck for towing. I have a Bullydog controller on mine and it gets around 20mpg empty and about 13 towing my 28' boat. Pulled this boat from Havasu to Indiana when I bought it and it never downshifted once with the cruise set on 75mph all the way home.

I have the 06 LBZ now and my last truck was the 6.0L gas GMC with 4:10. the gasser did well and I liked it but the LBZ does better in power and mileage. I love the stability of DRW so I would recommend it. The SRW has clearance advantages that some need but when the wind shear gets up there, like it is in your neck of the woods, the SRW is not as stable as the DRW.
The mileage of the diesel VS gas is basically understood that what ever the gasser does the diesel will do at the very minimum 1mpg better. I checked the 8.1L against the LBZ Dmax and at 11,400 lbs the gasser was single digits in the mpg's and the diesel was always in the double digits. In general comparrison each 1mpg increment is about $4K worth in either fuel cost savings or loss over 100K miles. For example if the diesel is only 1mpg better than the gasser then over 100K miles it will cost $4K less to operate. The benefit is usually far better in favor of the diesel than for gas not to mention the power and stability.

The mileage difference from OLD diesel to NEW emission fuel loss is from 1 to 3mpg. The non emission truck will have better mpg's but the new system is not far behind........ STILL behind though. LOL

Good luck and I vote for the LBZ DRW truck; I absolutelly love mine and I don't see a different truck for me for a long time.
P.S. You can tell if a truck is LBZ by the 8th character in the VIN: if it is a "D" as in diesel it is the LBZ engine.

I would never go back to a gasser! I had an 09 2500hd 6.0 gas and the only thing it did well was burn gas. 13mpg empty and 4mpg towing, screaming at 6k rpms on every hill. My last truck was an 07 F250 with the 6.0 tuned,deleted etc. Absolutely awesome truck! I only had one issue the entire time I owned it and it was $40 STC fitting. Just lose the emissions crap and throw on a custom tune and you are good to go. The f250 got about 16 combined driving empty, 20 on the highway and 14.5 pulling my 28' boat. It would do about 11 pulling 15,000. Now I have a '13 ram with a Cummins. Have only put about 7000 miles on it but It does better than the ford empty 22 highway/ 19 everyday driving. Pulling the boat it's not quite as good as the ford, more like 13.5. I think the high gears help empty but hurt the towing.

Diesel resale is MUCH higher than gas tho...

Really???? What year models are you referring to? Cummins was the first to offer a EB and has the best to date...
According to these guys the dmax has the worst.....
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...k/viewall.html

From what I have seen the Allison is awesome....until over 100k miles....

well said and seeing how diesel engines are what a 6-7k up charge the fuel is now 10-20% higher. Back in the day when they were cheaper and diesel was a lot cheaper than gas it worked. But you can do the math all day with newer trucks, including MAINT and you will lose every time

What are you towing to get 4mpg?!

Factor in depreciation and your numbers will lean toward diesel. The diesel I had before this one was 34k out the door. Drove it for 2 years and 35k miles and sold it for 30k....try that with a gasser and see where it gets you....

That depends on what price point your at. A fully chocked King Ranch 4X4 Dually is going to cost you north of 65 and you're going to lose a small fortune on it two years later..........

A 25' gooseneck dump trailer with a mini excavator, a big hydraulic breaker, and an extra skid loader bucket on the trip I was referring to, but it never did better than 5.5-6mpg pulling anything of any real weight.

We just took in on trade a 2006 Dodge 2500 ram crew cab 4x4 diesel Laramie with 54,000 miles
1 owner Black with dove gray leather loaded up in mint condition. It will be on our website next week for sale.