Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I have a 32 with a pair of Mercury blower motors,Rippem knows the boat really well,I have just installed Imco Extereme drives and hardware and we are getting ready to do some testing with Steve and hopefully Joel Ross to see what what we can do to tame the boat down at higher speeds,100 plus she is a handfull.I have spent alot of time on the phone with the factory and we are finding better handling but have not perfected it yet,the Imco drives with there extended length have helped considerably and different props have made huge strides in the wright direction but still there is room for improvement.If you can drive one of these boats at speed you will find all other boats a piece of cake to run this boat is like a over powerd 22 footer on steroids and a whole lot of fun to run,I have not seen a comporable boat of size and power keep up in flat or the rough.I will keep you up on the progress while hoping to fine tune it a little more,and if you want to see if you can drive a 32 foot missle and you see me at one of the runs we will go for a ride to see if you pass the test ,if nothing else we will have a wild ride and most of all put a hurtin on the Fountain and Baja and Cig guys.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Mr Velocity:

Thanks for your input. Mark at Hutchinson's in Alex Bay NY has offered to let me take a look at his own 41 which I will do when the !#@#&*% weather warms up a bit. Will hunt for some pic's in the meantime.

Suprised this thread is still going! Nice to know there are others out there similarly obsessed.

:D

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

It was a big 35'. Mark had a '95 built for him. I have many good pics, I'll have to scan 'em and post 'em. Problem is you can't just dam off a mold, build a boat in it and presume it's going to work right...most often they don't! Just because the 41' descendant of Steve's original big boat works well, is absolutely no guarantee that any other size boat that comes out of that mold will, and they haven't with all the CG to bottom, and pad size/location issues, trying to bring different boats out without some serious R&D.
At some point your better off just laying out a new mold/boat from scratch, using the scale factors/CG layout that you KNOW work instead of using the consumer as tester/guineapig of 1 mold stepchildren (pun intended...I think?).

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

i would like to see the pics what did the boat do or not do?

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Hyper what props are you running? My uncle has been really happy with the B1s from Halls. Although he still needs to drag tabs, just need to find the setup that carries the bow with little trim. The extended length Imco, you mean they're deeper in the water? Anyone ever try Stellings Boxes on a 32, migh give you enough to carry the bow a little better.
Have you talked to Bruce over at Express? He setup a 32 with some monster power a few years ago, not sure if they ever got it handling exactly the way they wanted. I believe this boat also went to the OK. He also powered the 32 plug boat with a single monster motor.
Personally on my 41 I have seen the best results from a pair of Merc Lab B1s that I cust the diffuser ring off. At one point my shed had 8 sets of props in it, down to the 1 set now. It was beginning to look like the back of the race truck, although Bravo props are a lot cheaper than #6 props.

When I went to Steve to build my boat I had all intentions of buying a 35. He said for $10K more he could build the 41, it was a no brainer and the best move I have ever made when it comes to boats. I think the S-glass layup added $12K. I'd have to look at the original paperwork.

292 if you're ever in Jersey and want to take a ride in some big water give me a shout.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I am running 15x30 Hydromotives,also trying some different Merc blades,I am also going to try spinning the props out to see if it will help the back of the boat to stick better,I do believe that the X diminsion that I am running is lower than most of the other 320s that are out there.I would like to try a set of five blades on it also to see what they will do for the all around performance of the hull,also I have the toe set I do belive at 3/16 to 1/8 in,I do believe that is where Steve said they should be.Spring is coming soon unless I can get it to Florida sooner.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I think we measured once and my X was a little higher than your boat 1HYPER1.

I still say "out" will be counter productive, slower, and screw up the pad's running angle to the water.

running more of an ass-in the water attitude at speed will take the CG further aft and cause an unnatural trim and ramping up effect of the pad off a wave instead of the "ski across". Don't launch off anything! I think you'll find the boat "flighty" in a different, and bad way.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

The 360 is a "shortened" 410, and it's a great handling boat. I guess it's just a matter of finding the sweet spot. The difference in length between the 390 and 410 comes from cutting the hull down, and nothing to do with the deck. Both hulls come from the same mold, the 390 is cut at the feature line below the rub rail.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

the 410 hull is cut about 7" and the 390 beck is about 8" shorter than 410 deck. for a total of 15" shorter than the 410 (15" is very close ) .

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I think Pepper started spinning his props out on the 390 and actually like the way it handled. He lost 1 or 2 on the top but overall handling was greatly improved. He was also one of the first, if not the first, to run B1s on the boat. Steve was (is) a huge believer in Hydros. Spinning out will definitely lift the transom a little more and keep the bow down. Not sure why you feel it would move the CG back, if anything it will make the boat feel like the CG is farther forward.
Best thing to do is try.
On the 36 Skater I raced the boat ran the best spinning in until it got rough. Spinning out help keep the bow down in the rough but the boat definitly handled differently. But so many things were changing before a race like drive rotation, drive height, CG, props it was hard to keep track what was affecting the handling. The only way to know thougt is to test. We spent 3 solid weeks at Lake X testing can't say we ever finished.
Personally I like the way my 41 handles with the B1 better than the Hydros. I lost 1 mph on the top with the B1s but I picked up a lot on the midrange. Throttle response has also gotten a lot better.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

your right, I was backwards in that thinking. :D

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Thks for the offer Mr Velocity, sounds like you have your 41 fairly dialed in.

Have to agree with Rippem regarding using one mold for different hull lengths. :eek: I would be concerned if I was looking at a 32! Do other companies do this?

I know its a different animal, but I almost never need tab input on my Formula (certainly not at WOT). Only time I use tabs are at low speed with uneven passenger loads or in bigger water at speed to keep the nose down. My '89 292 is 31 LOA, but stern heavy for its size due to twin Big Blocks.

Having to always drag tabs at higher speeds would indicate a handling flaw to me. :(

Mr Velocity: does the 41 need this much tab input

This site is ADDICTIVE :drink:

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

This is what I was afraid of :(

The 32 being 'black listed'... no doubt others are reading this info and getting overly concerned about the boat and it's handling.

Is this the only size Velocity that requires positive tab???

The boat runs on a rather small running surface at full speed... is that a flaw? Well I guess if you want to look at it that way. Getting some extra speed out of less hull drag makes it a little unstable.
However, somebody, somewhere, must have had some faith in their consumers, that there was'nt going to be unnecessary accidents and injuries because of it.
It may be too agressive... I'll go along with that. But I don't think it was just 'plucked' from the mold without any consideration to it's bottom.

Is it dangerous???

Some people consider stepped-hulls dangerous... "unique" handling characteristics.
Other manufactures put "hooks" on the tail of their hulls so they handle perfectly at (highly under-powered) top speeds without tabs.

The Velocity 32' is a "drivers" boat... that would indicate it is not a "no brainer", you have to be alert and drive it, and adjust on it. It is not a flaw to me... it is challenging and fun.
There are plenty of other perfect handling hulls out there. I would be happy with a wave crushing non-stepped Top Gun. I wouldn't expect it to be challenging to drive at all... but I would expect it to be slow and under-powered... just know what you are buying.

Early in this discussion folks were talking about why they liked Velocity's... the concensus was you needed to "drive them", they were not like other brands.

Why would anybody be surprised you need to use tabs?? :confused:

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Sorry to get off topic again...

But what does the bottom of a VR-1 look like? And can they be driven at full speed without tab? They flat out fly whatever it is.

Props spinning in creates bow lift... which could add to the tab setting... hmmmm. I'll add that to my to-do list, and try turning them out this season sometime, just for giggles.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I don't know about the VR1, but my T-Bred needs no tab input at speed unless it gets a little rough. Then just a little bit of tab helps...

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

People should realize that although the 41 mold was the basis for the 32, Steve did a lot of work on the bottom, it is not even close to the running surface of the 41. You have to start someone where and most companies have streachted or shortened their best running boat.

I spent a fair amout of time dialing in the boat, although it didn't take much. I think the time you spend driving it is just as important. Steve was very helpful with this, the first summer I was on the phone with him quite a bit. His knowledge of the boat and it's handling characteristics are outstanding.

The only time a tab goes down is for strong cross winds. I am probably one of the most conservative on trim angle now, this comes from what I learned racing. In big water the tabs are parallel with the bottom of the boat and I run slightly positive trim though not much. The boat flies perfectly. Even in smaller chop I don't run that much trim, keep the boat on the pad and you won't see much of a speed difference although handling will be like night and day. The tabs are usually pulled all the way up. My tabs are also mounted horizontally, not flat with the bottom.

I have never been in a 39 and only a few times in the 32. I really shouldn't comment on the 32 since you can't compare it to the 41. I don't know any boat that I would compare to the 41, Steve really got it right with this boat. The 41 is the most predictable boat I have ever been in. It always flies predictably, hasn't hooked on re-entry and with a little positive trim it will out turn just about anything out there, except a cat. Hope I don't strart another diversion with that comment. Even now when I look at all the other V bottoms out there I can't find one that I would rather be in. Although if I didn't have the family I would be in a 36 Skater. Probably the best boat ever built, provided it is setup correctly.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

When we get my uncle's boat in the water for the first run I'll make sure the props are turning out. I'll let you know how she handles.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

ran my 26' T-Bred damn close to 90 without any tabs even mounted on the boat. A good hull is sensative and responsive to drive trim.

I never said the 32' was dangerous. It's certianly not. Though it may feel that way to the uninitiated. It just has a personality all it's own...pure Velocity..though requiring the most skill and attention of all of them.

I loved my 32', thats why I kept it twice longer than any of the four boats before it!

That doesn't mean I was ignorant to it's "special needs" almost from day one. Like all Velocity's it holds tenaciously in turns. The only thing that would come around like the Velocity's, was my 22' Pachanga...that bottom would carve.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I've got a VR-1 that some of you may recognize.... the old F1-56 race boat. Although my hull has had extensive blueprinting so it may not been the same as a normal VR-1, it is a BLAST to drive flat out in poker run conditions. (see pics) It doesn't need tabs at all at full bore (low 80's) but you definently have to drive it. Like others have said, it is a drivers boat, and you never get bored perfecting your technique.

I haven't driven a 32, but from my limited time driving both the 36 and 41 they felt very similar (just bigger). I am not sure that I would enjoy a boat that was easy to drive as much as a Velocity.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

The 280/26 and the VR-1 have basically the same running surface the VR-1 is a little wider in the front and has a molded in swim platform and a totally different deck. I have 280 K planes on my 280 and use them only windy conditions and when it is rough. But they are not needed at high speed and I have some pretty unstock power in mine. :D

PS CA boats looking good I will see you in Fort Myers :drink:

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I think it's great that the handling traits being discussed are seen as positives, and require some skill on the part of the driver which only adds to the overall experience of operating the boat. One problem I have with modern cars having traction control and anti-lock brakes is that it takes some of the skill away from driving. What happened to modulating effort on the pedals? I guess the manufacturers have to compensate for the general publics lack of ability.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

No, no, nobody said it was dangerous, that was just a question I threw out there.
And I was also pointing out it's not the only somewhat controversial hull on the market.

Some more .02,
I think putting twins in these size boats creates challenges... not picking on Sonic, but my observation has been they seem to 'nose up' in the rough and not fly level, I've heard of 32 Fountians sinking at the beach from boat wakes because the transom (and those nice little round rearward facing vents?) are so low in the water... point being, I don't think there is enough bow weight to offset all the engine weight. Was the 32' Velocity designed more favorably for a big power single... maybe, but twins are more fun in my book. And if you look at the entire package.... cockpit room, freeboard, closets, storage, usable(!) enclosed head, thru-bolted everything no squeaks or rattles... along with speed potential and passenger comfort and safety... I think it is a real winner. And yes, I am going to defend and stick up for it!

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I think Bruce Baker rigged a big single boat with a #3 or5. We often discussed here locally how well we thought the boat would work with a single. It's just that dependable power thing again. There was a blown single out in Washington at one time also. The yellow big single power 32' won? the English channel challenge or something like that as a back-up boat! I remember reading about it somewhere.

Yea there are a couple of other "big name" boats that have a worse safety record that's for sure! :D

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

The boat Bruce did was #1, the plug boat. The power in that boat was very very big.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Nice pics but you know Velocities like big water too :)

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Velocitys do like big water. I was running some big water in a Poker Run and and would not let off the throttles regardless. Steve Stepp was running beside us and told me later that "you can let off when in big water". My reply was " not in a Velocity" . He just laughed. He knew that I would never let off regardless. I owned a near 100 mph 280 back several years ago and never let off regardless of conditions.
They can and will handle and put up big numbers in big water.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Great comments.

My intent was certainly not to criticize the models discussed as I have not run any of them, but rather to get some input from those that have.

Seems a common thread that if you get some seat time and learn the boats you will be rewarded.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Like Troutly says..."all boats are a compromise"

NONE of them are perfect. Each make/model has a personality and a certian pride of ownership. Velocity included. ;)

I thoroughly enjoyed the two I owned during that time. Much like women, you tend to see a more rounded experience after thier gone. :D

I have offered both the good and bad as has been my experience, as have others.
It's been enjoyable, informative, and maybe the longest thread in the Velocity forum?

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Since the old 30 foot hull will be the basis for the new 322, does anyone have experience with one of those? I'd really like to hear how they perform and handle. I think the most common power in the new boat will be twin 496 mags or HOs.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Glad we could clear the air on that, I've spoke my peace :)


Let me tell ya, the very last run last year... from Alex Bay to Henderson (lake Ontario)... in some pretty nasty waters... I could not believe my eyes. I had heard the VR-1 was fast, but holy crap! (Rippem, ask Dave P. about it) We're running on the verge of 70, into the wind coming around Cape Vincent where we're hitting the open lake and it is really starting to get nasty... waves like 4' brick walls we're smashing thru, I'm running with a Formula 312 on the port side and here is Mark L. in his VR-1 right along side of us on my starboard side :eek: We had long dusted off every other single engine boat on the run.
That was impressive! I did finally get by them... but I thought I was going to break the boat in half doing it!
I think that was a 496HO? VR-1.

There is also a 290SC with a 525EFI around that is fast!
If I ever had to go back to a single engine, that would be my first choice. Or..... maybe a 32 with big power??? :D

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Here's the 12" windshield I cut down, up actually since I just wanted the top. The 6" didn't have the flip on the top like the 12 did, this keep just about all the wind off us.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Just some running shots

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I owned an '80 from '84 to '89. It was Jay Smith's old raceboat Putt Putt. When I bought it it had side-by-side 355" small blocks @ about 350 HP each. Replaced those with 450HP small blocks, then 550Hp 468's the Banks TT 496's. Out of all of them, I preferred the hi-powered small blocks. The original motors just didn't have the guts to keep the nose up and getting on plane was tough. With the bigger small blocks it popped right up. The boat had huge wolverine tabs on it- probably 2' long. It didn't take much tab adjustment to make alot happen. Those motors really made the boat sing. The first set of big blocks really changed the handling of the boat. It didn't turn nearly as crisply and just felt heavy. I wanted to see what 100mph looked like so I put the Banks motors in. What a nightmare that was. Sure, the boat flew- but only when it ran. From 25 to 85 MPH took about two seconds (at least that's what it seemed like!) and I can tell you I was way too "focused" to look at the speedo at top speed. The boat wasn't a handful or anything but it required some work to drive it. Eventually, the boat ended up with the big small blocks before it was sold.

Right before I sold it, I put the small blocks in it. My brother was in the Air Force at the time and stationed overseas. He was in town and we planned to go out for the afternoon. For some unknown reason, I neglected to check the weather report before we left--when we got to the lake (Erie) waves were coming over the breakwall. There wasn't any way we weren't going out so we dumped the boat in and took off. At the mouth of the river at the end of the no-wake zone, we were taking water over the bow... off-plane. I hammered it and turned West, across the wind. I'm guessing the waves were 8' or so. We would lose sight of the shore at the bottoms. We spent about a half-hour beating around until neither of us could take it anymore. At one point, we landed so hard I couldn't stay up and fell to the floor of the cockpit. On another, I thought I was going to stuff rear-first from the bow being so high. The boat would take anything and everything. I replaced the boat with a Cig 35 and was really disappointed. The Cig was slow, lazy and although it rode good, it didn't do anything the Velocity couldn't (other than carry 8 people and have a cabin). I replaced the Cig with an Apache 41. I only wish that I could have afforded the $$$$$ of running that beast but with two babies it wasn't practical.

I've been on some of these new step-hull boats and you can have 'em. I have a buddy with a new Fountain 38 and I'm always wondering what's going to happen first- bow stuff, roll over or break in half. The old 30 Velocity would shame that boat and with modern materials maybe trimming a 1000# or so, I couldn't imagine how it would perform.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Thanks, that's good stuff.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I enjoy lurking in this thread now and then ! I see a lot of really talented Velocity drivers here ! I am the original owner of a 1986 30' with TRS drives ! ( I know its not a real Velocity) Im on my 6th or 7th set of big blocks and I think my 5th set of drives ! I would guess I have over 2500 Hrs. in the boat , 90 % of the time at WO. ",thats were she runs the best "! As for the performance of the 30, I can tell you I regularly out run longer supposedly faster boats in 4' + water on the bay year after year ! I think the new 322 will be a very popular and kick s$$ boat !! I cant wait to see one on the Bay so I can see what shes got !! I am curious if there are any other owners out there with as much time in one Velocity as I ! For that matter did Steve have that time in the 30 before selling to Regal ? Ron Umlandt OPA P4-33 STEELINTIME.

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

280 Throughbred can definitley hang in big water...got a 80+mph one and loved it...selling before I even take it out again or else I know I'll keep it for another season...amazing boat for its size...have heard 100mph is a reality from several other owners...39' one day? absolutely

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Friend of mine ran a 30 called B-fast in the B class back in late 80s, anyone know about it...used to run over 100...boat is still in storage in michigan...has I believe #5s and t-700 power...3 man bolsters...would make a great poker run boat...run Lake St. Clair in a 280 and love it...as far as talent, you do have to throttle these boats but its worth every second of it when you get it right...especially racing 35s and winning in rough water... :evilb: :evilb: :evilb:

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

I have old freeze frame tape of "B-Fast" racing. :cool:

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Have watched that tape I believe...theres alot of radical action in the beginning credits...that boat is still owned by same guy and is being put together again right now...

Re: Info on 39's and 41's
 

Realize this is a different subject, but has anyone seen a 4 bolster setup in a 39 or 41? Not trying to turn it into a station wagon, and I know the added weight is not good.......................but would avoid all the squabbles about who rides shotgun!

Looks like tons of room in the 39 cockpit, not sure about the 41.