low
speed ---------------------------------------------------speed
Quality
HIGH-------------------------------------------------
|-Apache
|---Pantera
|---------Cigarette
|
|---------------------------------Progression
|----Sonic-----Active Thunder-Phantom
|-Baja------------------------Kryptonite
|------------------------------Superboat
|------------------------------------Activator Quality Low This is my understanding of your graph is that correct? I can't seem to make it fit right on the post But the lower on the list the lower the quality

RichM,

Yes, you are right. Now, I am not saying that Activators are bad boats (in fact, it would beone of the first I would buy because it is bare bones and gets the job done for a reaasonable amount of money), but I am really saying that the strength of the boat is in its speed and not so much in its build quality; whereas the strength of a boat like an Apache is not so much speed as it is overall build quality.

Let me see if I got this right According to the graph, although the Baja is much slower it is on the same scale of quality as the kryptonite?

RichM,

Yes, I would say that the Baja, while it is on the slow end of the scale, it is finished fairly nicely.

I've been reading these posts and don't understand what is it that we are comparing? Just Speed and qualty? What kind of boating are you doing? Are you going to stay on the boat? Is cost a factor? Do you have kids? Are you looking to just go fast? Are you concidering a cat? Where will you be boating? I think all these play a big part in the decision of what boat to purchase. We all have different tastes and needs and surely costs always comes into play at some point., How do you chart how a boat looks,or the way it feels? I think if you start looking at all the things that are important to you when you go boating, you will be able to single out the best one for you! Good Luck :D

I'll tell you what...
 

I'm contacting all the mentioned boat builders, and I'm doing the research. Rtaylor, your posts are interesting, but I'll reserve judgement on the accuracy of your scale.

Here's a novel idea: Why don't you all look at the hard facts? What do you know about these boats, other than what you see on the surface? This is insane. Don't worry, when I'm finished, I'm going to lay it all out, in an objective manner.

Bottom line is, the two best made, most advanced boats money can buy are Skater and Progression. This, meaning the layup schedule, materials, process, structural design, and uniformity of the hull.

I've been up close to many Superboats, Bajas, Apaches, Skaters, Progressions, Warlocks, Velocitys, and so on.

Take a 6-foot long level and hold it up to the bottom pad or keel. Won't you be surprised. On the Progression, you'll be lucky if a business card will slide through that level at any point.

What causes this? General resins have a higher shrink rate than AME-series resins, and the result of pulling a boat from the mold too quickly is a wavy bottom and sides.

Progression's molds are 100% balsa cored as well.

Hot tip: There are so many lamination variations and schedules, many of which are company secrets.

How many of the mentioned boats are 100% vacuum bagged, 100% composite, and 100% balsa cored? I won't answer this one - call and find out.

FYI: Progression and Skater have among the highest resale value in the industry.

I'll be back.

Misty

Flylevel,

I appreciate your post. The point of this chart is not to pick out a boat to buy, but simply to rate boats based on 2 criteria. There are many more criteria, as you said, if you were to buy a boat. Maybe one day I can construct a chart with more than 2 dimensions.

Misty,

Skater is not on the chart because they build catamarans. By no means is this chart comprehensive, either. But Misty, I am not looking at cold hard facts. A perceptual map does just that, it measures PERCEPTIONS. I am sure that my perceptions are different than the facts, and I am glad that you picked up on that because the next part of this research is to combine all of the facts and to compare them to my perceptions and the perceptions of everyone else. This way, the builders might have a better clue as to the difference between the merits of their boat and consumers' perceptions. Then they might adjust their marketing to reflect the ACTUAL merits of their boats. We are basically doing free market research for all of the manufacturers in the chart. Please do compile the info you said you would so we can compare. I appreciate your help.

good point, too old.

Fred, you are wise beyond your years....er check that, as wise as your years :D

I dunno, but my 28 Pantera is rigged neater and overall quality is better than my 27 Fountain. The beaker would be faster with the same power, but my P has more room and more hull. Reggie uses some more leather, but Jo did exactly what I asked for with my vinyl and the paint, plus gave me a lifetime warranty, a labbed prop and many others things.

Speed is mid 70's with 3 people, 100 gallons of fuel and 10 hours on the motor and drive. I expect that when I know more about it and get a bit of chop high 70's is where it will fall. I don't think that is bad performance out of a full 28 foot boat with a single 575(no chine walk BTW like the 27 beaker is know to do at 72 or so) with a full cabin, sink, ice chest, shore power and all the normal gear ( vests, anchor blah blah), plus a tool chest that was about 60 pounds.

Now you have my vote.

I'm still not following your lead. If you only base the product on those 2 objectives that might not be the design intentions of the boat. What do you plan to do with the chart? Just gathering information? I think it's fine to do research, but usually the data compiled for something, what I mean is that most people would like that data for future purchase. What is your defination of quality? Materials? layup? molds? racing? years of service? What do you mean by speed? Flat water? 2-3' 3-4' waves? Half tank of gas? 2 people in the boat? It seams that you want to narrow the comparisions done to 2 ojectives, but the 2 objestives are way to broad to narrow down. I can appreciate your efforts but I think the criteria taht you are using is not a true comparision. Just my opinion:D :D :D