Dealer cost on a new 37?
 

Dealer cost on a new 37? 525s, paint

Just thinking
Jeff

I don't think there are any dealers per say, but I will venture a guess at $245k :D

Jeff,

Check your PMs and call me.

Brian - you need to be getting a paycheck from AT! You're doing more sales for them than anyone else... How about it Pat? Does Bri need some business cards?

BTW, my experience having been someone who has ordered a boat from the factory leads me to believe that dealer cost is somewhere in the neighborhood of 40% off MSRP (whatever that number is). Typically a good deal from a dealer is described as one that achieves 25-30% off MSRP based on what I've gleaned from OSO over the years. Since AT sells direct it would be difficult to target their numbers but it's fair to compare their offerings to other boats of the same size/power and do the math to figure out what kind of values can be had.

I do have AT business cards. :D

I have Active Thunder business cards.........they're 7 years old!!!!! lmao!!!

There are no dealers...Factory direct custom built. 245K will not get you 525EFI’s and paint....Upper 200K's minimum...

There are no real Dealers. Pat doesn't need Dealers he has factroy reps in everyone that has ever owened one.::cool: (And why would anybody post dealer costs on line anyway?):confused:

Okay, let's settle in between your number and my number. Call Pat and get this thing going for me :drink:

I know the boating world doesn't like to post dealer cost. And from a selling perspective, i totally understand. That being said, When you buy a car you can go online and find the invoice cost before you go and try to haggle. Why all the secrecy in marine sales? I've always thought that it would be great for a manufacturer to come out with "no haggle" pricing like Saturn does. Build in enough for the manufacturer and the dealer to make an acceptable profit without making the customer guess if he's getting a good deal or buying the very same boat as the guy before him, but for $30k more. Just thinking out loud, not criticizing dealers or manufacturers.

This topic has always made me think that there's gotta be a better way than what is conventionally done.

Cars are built on a PRODUCTION line. There are a few boat builders that also build in this fashion. You buy truck loads of materials and parts, and you build as many as you can with a standard pricing program. The DEALER pays a set price for the vehicle, and you negotiate with the DEALER for a better price. Also, dealer prices vary as well. A 30 units a month dealer does not pay the same price as a 300 units a month dealer. This dealer price may be reflected in the original purchase, or with 'hold-backs' that are done after the sale to the consumer. You don't call up Mr. GM for a better price on your Chevy Silverado. You talk to the Dealership Sales Manager; and the buck stops there. You Dealership Sales Manager has no insight into the cost of the leather on your new truck due to Mad Cow disease or freezing weather in Iowa.

Active Thunder and several other boats are built CUSTOM.
The boat builder buys materials and parts on an AS NEEDED basis, and each boat has so many different options, that its BEST to start with a blank sheet of paper. With Active Thunder, you deal directly with the factory on price. There is no dealer, or middle man mark-up.

Options for parts/accessories/materials bought from other manufacturers vary greatly, and can change on a daily basis. Lamborghini Orange, House of Kolors Orange, and Dupont Orange also have a VERY different price per OUNCE. It also depends on how things are built and installed. AC, Heat, and a hot water system can be packaged together for a better price, rather than priced individually based on HOW and WHEN they get installed.

That being said, a Boat Show Season ONLY price for the
28 Savage w/ 525EFI
and the
33 Evolution w/496HOs
has been established which will give you a starting price for the boat before you start talking about paint and options. Again, the paint and options are priced individually as they are CUSTOM chosen, and material pricing can change on a daily basis.

I am not posting these prices on OSO, but I would happy to discuss them with someone who has genuine interest in purchasing a new AT. Once we agree on what you want on the boat; the pricing can be fine tuned.

I understand that building a custom boat is different than building a production car, but are a lot of similarities. You can buy a base model car, then you can add options. Options from the factory and then there are more options you can add from the dealer. You can also order your car from the factory (through the dealer) and have it built with just the options you want.

I'm not saying i have all the answers, just my thoughts are that if a manufacturer came up with a way to advertise a lower cost than traditional msrp, they would draw a lot more shoppers away from other brands.

This isn't aimed at AT by the way (and i feel they do have some of the best pricing in the industry), i just read the thread and it sparked interest.

At work we deal with reduction of variation in an aviation environment and its benefits. What if the boat manufacturer added (just an example) 10% above build cost. Meaning if the cost of livorsi gauges goes up 2% for the builder, then the cost to the buyer goes up 2% as well. At this point you are taking variation out of the profit margin. The manufacturer would make 10% on every boat it built, no more, no less. Sell more boats, make more money. But you don't have to screw someone today because you gave away a boat yesterday just so you can stay profitable.


Plus we use the term "custom" rather loosely. They aren't designing a new hull for each customer. They are just building them to order and allowing them to pick out options that are manufacturer provided options, or buyer dreamed up options.


i'm not picking on anything here and please don't take it that way. I may very well be wrong, but I always feel that just because its the way its always been done, doesn't mean its the best way. (sometimes it is though)

Point taken.

But, do you want Livorsi Platinum, Standard, Monster Racing, Redline, Carbon Fiber, or SmartCraft? Do you want bezels?
Do you want Livorsi Standard controls or Billet? Arched base? Powdercoat or polished?

And I did not even leave the dash yet.

Agreed. Perhaps you couldn't advertise a "no haggle" price since there are so many variables in the manufacturing process. But you could advertise, 10% over cost pricing standards.

i feel like the reason the marine industry has such a high msrp markup is because of the occassional customer who comes through, looks at the sticker price and says "i'll take it".

It would be interesting to see the effects of a more unconventional advertising campaign in the marine industry.

it would probably be an experiment best suited for a large company like brunswick though.

How bout just starting at the basics? The haul is all petrol products and the prices change on all that stuff on a daily basis. Then you go to just about everything else that goes into the build that is also based off petrol chems and things get outa hand in a hurry through the whole industry. With that said I don't see any way possible to even have a solid base price that isn't going to be changing from week to week. I have talked to Pat and other builders about this and have been told that it is a huge problem.:eek:

Jan 2006, AT orders gauges for Mr Xs boat.
March 2006, AT order same guages for Mr Ys boat, but they are 15% more. No way to figure that in.

Plus a 10% margin wont work when you are selling 15-30 units a year.

BUY YOUR NEXT BOAT HERE... FIXED PRICING AT 40% ABOVE FACTORY COST! damn that sounds attractive. ;)

All that means is that you advertise the cost of a base model boat, based on the raw material costs of that day. You add in a disclaimer that prices are subject to change with the change in raw material costs. But the cost model (x% over manufacturer cost) stays the same. Two guys walk into buy the same boat on the same day, they both pay the same price.

10% was just an arbitrary number thrown out there. Not saying thats THE number.

I think people would be attracted to this way of doing business. I know, when i walk into a dealership (car or boat), i'm already in my head, distrusting what the salesman is telling me because he is being incentivized to take as much of my money as he can. Take that incentive away, and he can do his job of selling you on the quality of the product rather than on what he can do about the MSRP.

I personally think for the kind of money boats cost today, that the buyer is educated enough to know what it costs, or doesn't care, cuz it doesn't matter.
And for this kind of money, you buy what you want cause its what you WANT, not because of the deal. you might walk cuz of a deal, but if you WANT A 39 CIG TG, you'll go to the dealer you like and/or pay for great service.
These boats are HI ROLLERS toys (bought new) not to be compared to buying a saturn... more like a Ferrari.

I think that is true in some cases. However, i believe that most people buying these boats are not multimillionaires who are willing to throw money at things. I can almost garuantee that most of the clientelle are successful middle and upper middle class citizens who know the value of a dollar and would not want to throw 50g's or even 10g's down the drain.

One of the draws of AT is that they sell a boat comparable in quality to some of the real big dollar manufacturers, but for a much more fair price.

If all the buyers were "high rollers" and didn't care about money, AT would raise their prices today and i wouldn't blame them.

Maybe we should consider asking for a recent paystub/LES before quoting a price. :D :D

Interesting thread.

Controversial but interesting.

I just don't get it:confused: And I'm just staying out of it for now:(

A company build 7-8 boats (of one model) a year and we want menu pricing???? I LOVE the 37 AT and have a pretty good idea what it would take to buy one. I also know I don't have that kinda money right now but that's another issue to be corrected by the next lottery drawing!!! :D

most of the guys laying out 200-300k for a new boat are middle to upper middle class? :eek:

First, this is all theoretical. I'm not saying that AT should do this. I'm just throwing ideas out there for the purpose of conversation.

In my idea, this wouldn't be "menu pricing". The price would change on a day to day basis as the cost of doing business changes.

i'm simply saying that it would be interesting to see someone come out with a pricing model that had their profit built in without asking the huge msrp as an initial haggle starting point. It would be a no haggle price and could be shown to the buyer. "We are paying this to build your boat, We tack on X% to cover our expenses and make a fair profit. This IS the price, non-negotiable".

And yes, i think that a lot of people buying 200-300k boats are making 150-200ish a year...upper middle class.

obviously, i don't know that by any study. but i've lived on the water for 28 years and have known probably hundreds of people with these boats. Very very few have been multimillionaires.

Someone mentioned Brunswick doing this and I remember that several builders have. Bayliner did it with the 17 ft runabout. Had a 135hp outboard and a trailer for $9,995 just a couple years ago. Yamaha did it with a 15 jetboat too, can't remember the price. A buddy sold them at a dealership and was a little miff'ed because the published price cut them to about 10%. He said they couldn't stay in business ifthey sold all their boats at that percentage and epople came in the door expecting to negotiate that price that they saw on TV.

I agree that it would be VERY hard to break people of habit of trying to negotiate on the price.

The bayliner thing is a little different though. They advertised a price. What i'm talking about is advertising a percentage.

"There's no standard definition of "middle class," so we looked at households with pre-tax income of between $25,000 and $75,000 -- a group occupying roughly the middle half of the Census income distribution tables."

"The professional middle class, also called the upper middle class, consists mostly of white collar professionals most of whom are well-paid salaried employees--highly educated salaried professionals whose work is largely self-directed. Many have graduate degrees with educational attainment serving as the main distinguishing feature of this class. Household incomes commonly may exceed $100,000, with some smaller one-income earners household having incomes in the high 5-figure range,[2][12][13] and hold college, often graduate degrees, and earn salaries considerably above the national median."

Housing prices may range all over the country, but I just can't see how someone who makes $150k a year affords a 200+ boat.
Owning a 350k house and a 250k boat? I just dont see it.
That doesn't seem to make sense or be a good financial plan.

I posted a thread in the GD forum to get an idea, but i don't think it'll get alot of attention.

If the auto industry won't adapt to that standard, where they are selling hundreds of thousands of units, how can the boating industry, where they are selling 100s of units.

I think if Saturn took off, and became an industry leader, other auto companies would follow, then maybe there could be some trickle down.

But no one will like to advertise their margins...
Walmart won't even do it.

You by a pair of jeans at Banana Republic... you wouldn't be happy seeing the sign that says "The markup on these jeans is only 125%".

I see what you are trying to say

[QUOTE=Stormrider;2048201]
Housing prices may range all over the country, but I just can't see how someone who makes $150k a year affords a 200+ boat.
Owning a 350k house and a 250k boat? I just dont see it.
That doesn't seem to make sense or be a good financial plan.
QUOTE]

I didn't say it was the wisest financial decision. But it happens all the time. thats why there are 10 and 20 year loans for boats. Most people making 150k plus a year are also living in houses much more expensive the 350k. Debt, its the american way!

But like i said, this is all theoretical and easy for me to just type out here. In reality there would be a LOT of details that would have to be worked out and researched prior to even considering a price model like this.

Just because something has yet to flesh itself out in the market place doesn't mean it can't work. In my job we do business process improvement for naval aviation (has nothing to do with price models, just business and maintenance processes). But when we walk into an F-18 squadron, 90% of the time they feel that the way they are doing business is the best way. Afterall they have been doing it for the last 50 years. In reality, they are too close to the situation, and when you step back you are able to see alternatives that make good business sense.

remember, im not saying it would work. i'm saying it would be interesting to look into.

Trust me, i know all about debt... I'm house poor. :(

Had to sell my 24pantera cuz it was costing more than $10,000 a year to keep(not financed).

I feel your pain man, everytime you turn around there's another bill. Had to build a new engine because my mercruiser sh!t the bed last september when one of my gils corroded and let some water leak in.

Boat sales is very much like auto sales whereas the dealer makes his money off the margin on options sold such as difference in actual motor/drive cost and MSRP; AC; vacu-flsuh; generators; etc. etc. There in lies the wiggle room. Also building in the accessorial costs of shipping, admin fees processing paperwork, kind of like the BS a mortgage company gouges you on. Dealer wise floor plan plays big in terms of overhead compared to sales volume (aka debt to income ratio) which determines how much off a MSRP the dealer can afford. Good volume w/ low overhead equates to coming off stout prices on accessories.

I'm sure AT has very little overhead invested in materials or man hours as reflected by their low annual build numbers which equates to straight from the factory decent numbers on the price tags as it should be. Other mfr's are getting a little to proud of their products price-wise. If you didn't know better at some prices you'd think they were selling space shuttles...:rolleyes:

All I want is a price:D

Ahhhhhhhhh, come on... you know you always get more than you bargain for from OSO.

One Million Dollars! (in my best Austin Powers voice) :D

All you gotta do is call. I know the price will be attractive.

Please let us know when the other manufacturers start posting dealer pricing on OSO. :evilb:

Hmmm... I've got my popcorn and watching with great interest as the authorities of the manufacturing world/OSO tell us how it really works.