Pat build a 39 & they will come
04-06-2008 | 06:45 PM
#121
VIP Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1
From: Aspen, CO
I am a little confused why you posted this when you don’t give me the courtesy of a phone call first. I guess it’s really my bad for not staying in touch with what we had going on.
Kathy,
The Silver Carbono tests we have done so far show damage to the vinyl either by a harsh cleaner or a stiff bristle brush. When it is put under a strong microscope you can see on the top and side areas the vinyl is worn down but on the bottom where it would not have been cleaned the fibers are in tack ,the thickness of the cleaned areas are less then on the bottom unclean area, suggesting scrubbing to hard we are still running test so I don’t have an answer yet , for now it looks like it is not a vinyl failure , Sorry I will get back with the rest of the test
Hope the Baby is doing fine
Darlene Welchance
Global Product Solutions
Customer Service
Our response:
Darlene,
As far as the Carbono is concerned, I feel fairly confident that we can rule out the use of a harsh cleaner. The customer is meticulous and very knowledgeable about vinyl care. To clean, he only wipes the upholstery with a damp cloth, and then applies 303 Protectant. Also, the boat is always covered and stored indoors when not in use.
With respect to the scrubbing, the long sides of the piece we sent to you are not exposed (see attached picture; the piece missing is the one I sent you), and therefore impossible to scrub. Only the front (the face that I labeled) and top are exposed. The curious thing is that I only noticed significant fading on the front, but not on the top. I would presume that any serious cleaning would have been done more so on the top which is the primary seating surface.
I just want to make sure that Corporate has a full understanding of the above as they continue their assessment.
Please let me know if you have any questions, or require further information.
Thanks,
Rich de la Rosa
Kathy,
The Silver Carbono tests we have done so far show damage to the vinyl either by a harsh cleaner or a stiff bristle brush. When it is put under a strong microscope you can see on the top and side areas the vinyl is worn down but on the bottom where it would not have been cleaned the fibers are in tack ,the thickness of the cleaned areas are less then on the bottom unclean area, suggesting scrubbing to hard we are still running test so I don’t have an answer yet , for now it looks like it is not a vinyl failure , Sorry I will get back with the rest of the test
Hope the Baby is doing fine
Darlene Welchance
Global Product Solutions
Customer Service
Our response:
Darlene,
As far as the Carbono is concerned, I feel fairly confident that we can rule out the use of a harsh cleaner. The customer is meticulous and very knowledgeable about vinyl care. To clean, he only wipes the upholstery with a damp cloth, and then applies 303 Protectant. Also, the boat is always covered and stored indoors when not in use.
With respect to the scrubbing, the long sides of the piece we sent to you are not exposed (see attached picture; the piece missing is the one I sent you), and therefore impossible to scrub. Only the front (the face that I labeled) and top are exposed. The curious thing is that I only noticed significant fading on the front, but not on the top. I would presume that any serious cleaning would have been done more so on the top which is the primary seating surface.
I just want to make sure that Corporate has a full understanding of the above as they continue their assessment.
Please let me know if you have any questions, or require further information.
Thanks,
Rich de la Rosa
Last edited by ACTIVESHACK; 04-06-2008 at 06:49 PM.
04-06-2008 | 06:46 PM
#122
Platinum Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,398
Likes: 33
Hey guys..I believe Nortech had 5 boats with this type or similiar carbon material problems..they had to sue the material manufacturer for not making good on the material. They replaced the 5 customers cockpits with the new carbon fiber and all has been great to date. I love the stuff personally, but elected to not go that route and take a chance. Good Luck. Jeff
04-06-2008 | 07:05 PM
#124
Registered
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,951
Likes: 3
From: Syracuse N.Y.
Pat, I was not commenting to make you look poorly at all. I said the "industry as a whole" actually to direct it away from you personaly. Sorry if it looked that way. But I believe it to be true that for what boats cost there should be alot more accountability than there is for the most part. There isn't another bis/industry whatever you want to call it that gets away with some of the crap that is loaded on customers. I think (hope) you know that I support you and Active Thunder above all others. You are right I don't have ALL the facts but I am not totaly clueless here. This isn't the first time I have voiced my thoughts openly and honestly and I am sure it won't be the last time I get myself into chit for it. As I said I am sure you have done and are doing everything you can to take care of it and it will be resolved. I wish you and Mark all the best in hopes that it all works out and everybody is happy.
04-06-2008 | 08:22 PM
#125
VIP Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1
From: Aspen, CO
04-06-2008 | 09:57 PM
#126
chuckbeecher
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 1
From: Anywhere from the Laguna Madre to JAX and beyond
Isn't there an old manufacturer and now there is a new company and the new stuff is holding up better.
Although on the FPC BoatShow Run I thought the silver in "Where's Eilleen" was doing the same thing and isn't that a relative new boat. Correct me if I'm wrong.
When we had the fishboat built we wanted carbon fiber and Glasstream got samples and were not impressed and refused to put it in the boat. But I guess with the new company they now are using it.
But I believe that whatever a builder uses and no matter what the customer thinks he wants it should hold up. If it will not or could be questionable then don't use. Sun protection for humans, salt/sweat, the sun, rubbing on it , walking on it and most of all WATER..jesus it's a BOAT..it's suppose to take this !!
But also my belief that the boat owner should not have to pay for correcting the problem..unless you have video of him abusing it with chemicals and such.
BUT THIS PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAPPEN IF IT WAS EXACTLY 39'
And staggers would cause you to have to shrink the cockpit and therefore there would be less open space for less direct sunlight and water to be directed to the carbon fiber
Although on the FPC BoatShow Run I thought the silver in "Where's Eilleen" was doing the same thing and isn't that a relative new boat. Correct me if I'm wrong.
When we had the fishboat built we wanted carbon fiber and Glasstream got samples and were not impressed and refused to put it in the boat. But I guess with the new company they now are using it.
But I believe that whatever a builder uses and no matter what the customer thinks he wants it should hold up. If it will not or could be questionable then don't use. Sun protection for humans, salt/sweat, the sun, rubbing on it , walking on it and most of all WATER..jesus it's a BOAT..it's suppose to take this !!
But also my belief that the boat owner should not have to pay for correcting the problem..unless you have video of him abusing it with chemicals and such.
BUT THIS PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAPPEN IF IT WAS EXACTLY 39'
And staggers would cause you to have to shrink the cockpit and therefore there would be less open space for less direct sunlight and water to be directed to the carbon fiber
04-06-2008 | 10:20 PM
#127
VIP Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1
From: Aspen, CO
Isn't there an old manufacturer and now there is a new company and the new stuff is holding up better.
Although on the FPC BoatShow Run I thought the silver in "Where's Eilleen" was doing the same thing and isn't that a relative new boat. Correct me if I'm wrong.
When we had the fishboat built we wanted carbon fiber and Glasstream got samples and were not impressed and refused to put it in the boat. But I guess with the new company they now are using it.
But I believe that whatever a builder uses and no matter what the customer thinks he wants it should hold up. If it will not or could be questionable then don't use. Sun protection for humans, salt/sweat, the sun, rubbing on it , walking on it and most of all WATER..jesus it's a BOAT..it's suppose to take this !!
But also my belief that the boat owner should not have to pay for correcting the problem..unless you have video of him abusing it with chemicals and such.
BUT THIS PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAPPEN IF IT WAS EXACTLY 39'
And staggers would cause you to have to shrink the cockpit and therefore there would be less open space for less direct sunlight and water to be directed to the carbon fiber
Although on the FPC BoatShow Run I thought the silver in "Where's Eilleen" was doing the same thing and isn't that a relative new boat. Correct me if I'm wrong.
When we had the fishboat built we wanted carbon fiber and Glasstream got samples and were not impressed and refused to put it in the boat. But I guess with the new company they now are using it.
But I believe that whatever a builder uses and no matter what the customer thinks he wants it should hold up. If it will not or could be questionable then don't use. Sun protection for humans, salt/sweat, the sun, rubbing on it , walking on it and most of all WATER..jesus it's a BOAT..it's suppose to take this !!
But also my belief that the boat owner should not have to pay for correcting the problem..unless you have video of him abusing it with chemicals and such.
BUT THIS PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAPPEN IF IT WAS EXACTLY 39'
And staggers would cause you to have to shrink the cockpit and therefore there would be less open space for less direct sunlight and water to be directed to the carbon fiber
04-06-2008 | 11:09 PM
#128
VIP Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1
From: Aspen, CO
Check there junk out and the conveniant name change last year when all the problems surfaced with there product. www.gtGLOBALPRODUCTSOLUTIONS.COM
04-06-2008 | 11:24 PM
#129
VIP Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 1
From: Aspen, CO
The wife is a little pizzed about me having to spend 4 grand to fix the cockpit because she figures that was a new bigger better b00b job. So before i get a Nor-Tech she wants some new Hi-Tech flare on here bow. I'm going from a 37 to a 39 and she wants to go from a 38 to a 40. You know what I told her "we can afford both" 
Last edited by ACTIVESHACK; 04-06-2008 at 11:27 PM.
