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Originally Posted by Panther
(Post 2850026)
Omar, was that the wide-body 36'???
You've been there and lived it and in my opinion you have the right!!! The rest of us just grew up watching and dreaming from the sidelines! :) BTW, I spoke with Bobby the other day as he was pulling a boat to change some cutlass bearings and getting ready to head out of town. We were chatting about a project I'm working on! :ernaehrung004: Thanks for contributing to the site, it's great to hear your input! :cool: |
Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 2850021)
Omar
I don't see Apache brand loyalty or value destroyed. I think Apache guys are probably the most loyal and used Apache powerboats among the highest priced. Even in a terrible market. I also think that Apache customer satisfaction is very high. I agree with Top Banana about today's buyer, they are really not interested in a offshore powerboat's rough water capability, they want high top speed numbers. That is why other manufacturers went to multiple steps, they give high top speed numbers. But, there are trade off's like in everything, and some of those trade off's deal with personal safety. So, in the end we all have to decide what we want in a powerboat and how we will spend our money. This has been an interesting thread. Good luck in your search. Ed |
Originally Posted by Apache1
(Post 2849988)
What kills me in this whole story and this thread I started is: I love Apache's and I spend all my time looking at other solutions!!!!
If I walked up to Mark he would sell me his designs but could not test a boat we are talking about apart from Cold War or Tsunami...now that to me is bad business judgement, why? Because you built stuff for the people that pay you the most but you destroy your brand value and loyalty along the way because the guy that bought the boat for twice the price will never buy another from Apache because he is most likely disappointed from his boat in the same way we are today and the guys that would have bought more boats for a reasonable price can't afford it at twice the price. Net net, you are left with occasional refits which in my case was also a disappointment with Heritage. If I were Mark, I would put my money where my mouth is, I would build the boats I design, prove they work and sell them (that is what we did with Heritage, the first sit down canopy V bottom in 1991 and won two world titles with it). That is how every factory started and is alive today. I don't know why Apache would escape the "gravity" of market logic, they are after all heavy boats and should therefore obey the same market "gravity" logic unless the business model is about refitting the old hulls at the price of a new one....but that also has limits in time. The hulls will age and the boats aren't worth the hull's residual value so your audience of potential refits will shrink with time and not grow. Maybe the cycle has come for Apache to build new ones again? How many times can you recycle a hull before it is rotten to the bone? The time has come to get real again Apache, else you will be like the American Indians that once ruled this land, sitting in a reserve and slowly abandoned as your refit options will expire. Sorry to all for my frustration, but when it comes to Apache's I get really emotional. As for Marks business plan, I guess it works for him. I would love to see old school looks with todays technology in an apache, like the way spirit of Apache came out or the way quick tempered was redone...Rob oh ans as you well know, the say the best way to make a million in the boat industry it start out with 2 mil. :D |
Originally Posted by Apache1
(Post 2850037)
You have a fair point Ed, but like any tribe it needs to grow to survive else they either get diluted or are extinct thru time.
I agree, every business needs financial input to keep solvent. And everything, including us eventually becomes extinct thru time. The best idea is to enjoy it while we are here. Ed |
Agreed! Boats are by far the best investment I have made in the last two years! run them, enjoy them and get back at least half your money. That's by far a better deal than most of us got in this economy or 401K's got for their money.
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Originally Posted by offshoredrillin
(Post 2850053)
I understand totally, I see and agree with you, thats why with my 20 cig, I see a market for the parts that I am custom designing and having made. Do you still have the 50? I could see a sit down refit on that, and with todays engine technology, a pair of good staggered 1200's that are reliable like tommys turbos and you have a great pkg for rough water.
oh ans as you well know, the say the best way to make a million in the boat industry it start out with 2 mil. :D |
Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 2850021)
Omar
I don't see Apache brand loyalty or value destroyed. I think Apache guys are probably the most loyal and used Apache powerboats among the highest priced. Ed |
Apache1 : Please forgive any oversight as I read through this for the most part but Skimmed a good bit of it..
That being said If you are looking for a new 41 or 47 built rock solid with new materials & not looking for a 750k boat take a few minutes & give Doug Geelhoed a call at Saber... (616-837-6666) It will not say Apache on it but it is the mold & though there are not many around they do build Proven Quality !! I would obviously get nothing as I have no association with them other than owning one of their boats , but a brownie point or two never hurts... So feel free to tell him that Little Dc's Rod Shop sent you & that I said hello... lol...:D Like I said I read a good amount of this thread but by far not every detail so if you are not looking to have a new 41 or 47 built please forgive my oversight.. From what I did get you are not really looking to have McManus build you one & if it helps Saber would build you a Great boat , as would Pantera , or Bannana either one... Again Not in any way tring to get in a pissing match with anybody about anything just thought it was worth a mention !!! |
Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater
(Post 2850185)
I agree, They have and are still to this day the pioneers of the custom boating industry. I'm an avid fan and apache owner, albeit only a 28. I have three guys I can go to to overhaul this old resin bucket if need be - B. Saccenti, M McManus, and Eric Froberg. If I want a new one built McManus can do it. If I need the current one fixed up a bit Froberg is willing to take care of his boat 20 years later........and he doesn't even work for apache anymore. Saccenti is also open to restoration jobs. I've talked with all three of these guys. How many customers can say the same on a 20 year old boat with 3-4 previous owners.
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Ed
I'm glad that's the best you can come up with. It certainly isn't the 80's anymore. However, I would have to agree with Omar. One can only hope that Apache survives on an occasional new boat build and doing refits. I can still remember, some years back, when a couple of friends were standing and bidding on all of the contents of Apache in Hollywood at the government sale. Things have certainly changed since then. Sorry for the delayed response...I had to take time off from this site to go boating. The Desert Storm Poker Run was a BLAST! |
Big Andy
Thanks for your positive comments in this thread. I am sure Apache Powerboats future will be secure under Mark McManus. Glad to hear you had the opportunity to enjoy yourself at the Desert Storm Poker Run. How about posting a pic or 2 of your powerboat, I'm guessing it's a Cigarette from your avatar? Ed |
Originally Posted by Apache1
(Post 2831426)
Does anyone know who owns the trademark Apache and the name? Why don't see any new Apache's?
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Just my 2 c.
Who cares ,who owns the name ,,,they never be like they where back in the day . The same as Cig ,and all the other big names. At this point it does not matter what name is on the side ,,unless its the real thing !!!!! Its like if MC Donald would sell to KFC ,,,do u think its gonna be the same ??????:rolleyes: Maybe better ,maybe not . ITS THE NAME U PAY FOR ,,not the product like back then! |
Originally Posted by Tristar Racing
(Post 2832812)
Pantera has the molds for the Thad Allen boat. Nothing has ever been popped from them though...
Its a shame really, from what I have gathered they are very nice and it was a good design. |
Originally Posted by daredevil
(Post 2856838)
Just my 2 c.
Who cares ,who owns the name ,,,they never be like they where back in the day . The same as Cig ,and all the other big names. At this point it does not matter what name is on the side ,,unless its the real thing !!!!! Its like if MC Donald would sell to KFC ,,,do u think its gonna be the same ??????:rolleyes: Maybe better ,maybe not . ITS THE NAME U PAY FOR ,,not the product like back then! |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 2857040)
You are right DareDevil! You would need the guy that actually built the boats for Apache Powerboats when Ben Kramer owned it to duplicate the product. If you could get that same guy to build them today, then you would have "The real thing" ........I like that. LOL!
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Originally Posted by el indio
(Post 2857388)
try this crew.
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Originally Posted by Apache1
(Post 2848228)
Guys, any day we have a new Bimini Race and I can make it is your day.For now, I am tesing the new 39 Motion with JT from TNT either next wednesday of Thursday, if you want to run with us, please show up at TNT in the afternoon on both these days.
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I still have the 21 scout molds and the 41 popped from the Team Apache banner boat. One day I will build what I want from them just not now.
Beau |
Originally Posted by rbr2328
(Post 2859069)
I still have the 21 scout molds and the 41 popped from the Team Apache banner boat. One day I will build what I want from them just not now.
Beau |
Originally Posted by Tristar Racing
(Post 2838916)
Hmm, just my opinion but Cold War was/is hideous...
How many boats is McManus actually popping these days? It looks like they are mostly just retro fits and reconditions... |
Originally Posted by daredevil
(Post 2859077)
Can i rent the 41 mold ????:party-smiley-004:
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Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 2857411)
That's a great "Offshore Race Team"
So, are you getting the "Comanche" in the water this year?:drink: |
Originally Posted by Panther
(Post 2861079)
You're too much, always stirring the pot......:food-smiley-007:
So, are you getting the "Comanche" in the water this year?:drink: The Comanche won't be in the water for at least a year....maybe longer. |
Best of luck to him in his endeavors.
BTW, did you call a certain builder about your transom a few years ago? ;) I'll see ya on the water when the "Comanche" is ready! :) |
Why can't you Middletown boys get along. Panther you got your project done so fast why don't you help Comanche. It will be good having 2 36's around. To beat up on the Outerlimits
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Originally Posted by BBILL1174
(Post 2861645)
Why can't you Middletown boys get along.
Carry on! Peace! |
Originally Posted by Panther
(Post 2861633)
Best of luck to him in his endeavors.
BTW, did you call a certain builder about your transom a few years ago? ;) I'll see ya on the water when the "Comanche" is ready! :) Fiberglass Plus always gets my glass and paint work, sixes and fresh power when the time comes. Nothing exotic, just reliable. Ed |
Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 2857411)
That's a great "Offshore Race Team"
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Originally Posted by Bigfeather
(Post 2861919)
You have that right. Bet Marc wishes he still had them. Whats up with Cold War. Jorge.
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Originally Posted by Roger 1
(Post 2862339)
Good question Jorge. Haven't heard much about it recently. Anybody?
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Originally Posted by Bigfeather
(Post 2862348)
The owners are so happy with it its being rehulled at OL. Stay tuned for law suit. Rumor has it. Heard it from a friends Rooskie friends mom. Jeebo.
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Originally Posted by Bigfeather
(Post 2862348)
The owners are so happy with it its being rehulled at OL. Stay tuned for law suit. Rumor has it. Heard it from a friends Rooskie friends mom. Jeebo.
This adds fuel to the Apache fire for sure. Im definately interested to hear more... |
Originally Posted by Tristar Racing
(Post 2862365)
Wait, the 50' "Apache" made last year?
This adds fuel to the Apache fire for sure. Im definately interested to hear more... |
1 Attachment(s)
Here's one
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Originally Posted by Comanche3Six
(Post 2862415)
Here's one
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Originally Posted by el indio
(Post 2862416)
A RUMOR FROM CASHBRAIN?
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:cool:
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