Originally Posted by Panther

Omar, was that the wide-body 36'???



You've been there and lived it and in my opinion you have the right!!! The rest of us just grew up watching and dreaming from the sidelines!

BTW, I spoke with Bobby the other day as he was pulling a boat to change some cutlass bearings and getting ready to head out of town. We were chatting about a project I'm working on!

Thanks for contributing to the site, it's great to hear your input!

Originally Posted by Comanche3Six

Omar
I don't see Apache brand loyalty or value destroyed. I think Apache guys are probably the most loyal and used Apache powerboats among the highest priced. Even in a terrible market. I also think that Apache customer satisfaction is very high. I agree with Top Banana about today's buyer, they are really not interested in a offshore powerboat's rough water capability, they want high top speed numbers. That is why other manufacturers went to multiple steps, they give high top speed numbers. But, there are trade off's like in everything, and some of those trade off's deal with personal safety.
So, in the end we all have to decide what we want in a powerboat and how we will spend our money.
This has been an interesting thread. Good luck in your search.
Ed

Originally Posted by Apache1

What kills me in this whole story and this thread I started is: I love Apache's and I spend all my time looking at other solutions!!!!
If I walked up to Mark he would sell me his designs but could not test a boat we are talking about apart from Cold War or Tsunami...now that to me is bad business judgement, why?
Because you built stuff for the people that pay you the most but you destroy your brand value and loyalty along the way because the guy that bought the boat for twice the price will never buy another from Apache because he is most likely disappointed from his boat in the same way we are today and the guys that would have bought more boats for a reasonable price can't afford it at twice the price. Net net, you are left with occasional refits which in my case was also a disappointment with Heritage. If I were Mark, I would put my money where my mouth is, I would build the boats I design, prove they work and sell them (that is what we did with Heritage, the first sit down canopy V bottom in 1991 and won two world titles with it). That is how every factory started and is alive today. I don't know why Apache would escape the "gravity" of market logic, they are after all heavy boats and should therefore obey the same market "gravity" logic unless the business model is about refitting the old hulls at the price of a new one....but that also has limits in time. The hulls will age and the boats aren't worth the hull's residual value so your audience of potential refits will shrink with time and not grow. Maybe the cycle has come for Apache to build new ones again? How many times can you recycle a hull before it is rotten to the bone? The time has come to get real again Apache, else you will be like the American Indians that once ruled this land, sitting in a reserve and slowly abandoned as your refit options will expire. Sorry to all for my frustration, but when it comes to Apache's I get really emotional.

Originally Posted by Apache1

You have a fair point Ed, but like any tribe it needs to grow to survive else they either get diluted or are extinct thru time.

Originally Posted by offshoredrillin

I understand totally, I see and agree with you, thats why with my 20 cig, I see a market for the parts that I am custom designing and having made. Do you still have the 50? I could see a sit down refit on that, and with todays engine technology, a pair of good staggered 1200's that are reliable like tommys turbos and you have a great pkg for rough water.

oh ans as you well know, the say the best way to make a million in the boat industry it start out with 2 mil.

Originally Posted by Comanche3Six

Omar
I don't see Apache brand loyalty or value destroyed. I think Apache guys are probably the most loyal and used Apache powerboats among the highest priced. Ed

Originally Posted by TexomaPowerboater

I agree, They have and are still to this day the pioneers of the custom boating industry. I'm an avid fan and apache owner, albeit only a 28. I have three guys I can go to to overhaul this old resin bucket if need be - B. Saccenti, M McManus, and Eric Froberg. If I want a new one built McManus can do it. If I need the current one fixed up a bit Froberg is willing to take care of his boat 20 years later........and he doesn't even work for apache anymore. Saccenti is also open to restoration jobs. I've talked with all three of these guys. How many customers can say the same on a 20 year old boat with 3-4 previous owners.