Props-Spin in or out ?
 

On our 41' Apache's with #6 or 3a's,do most spin in or spin out ?

whats the X on either this will make a huge difference
many are turing out with high drives...

Rob, in will give you more bow lift, and not as easy to maneuver while docking and maybe a mile an hour or 2 top end. out gives stern lift and makes it more maneuverable while docking. with trans, you have to switch the lowers, with bravo styles you can switch the cable. I've never heard X dim making a difference.

I agree with you offshoredrillin
Mine have always spun out-maneuvers very well at the dock
I did notice that Tatonka spins in with 5-blades

I tried both ways with Star Chaser it drives better and goes faster spinning in. Your x is 3/4 deeper then mine don't think that will make much difference.

If a set of Bravo drives has been spinning outward for 300 hours, would there be a problem with spinning inward in terms of a premature failure? I'm wondering if seals and bearings have formed to the direction. I'd like to try spinning inward, but I'm worried I shouldn't without updating parts.

It shouldn't hurt to try, if it handles better run it for awhile and then check the internals, if it doesn't do better swap it back no longer than it will take to find out you will be fine.

turning the props in will give a hull stern lift not bow lift
reversely, turing the props out will give the boat bow lift

this may be countered however with X on most race apaches the x is already high. if the drives and props are burried, turing in will loose handeling and gain speed with proper trim and stern lift. Turing out will gain handeling and you will have better control but loose mph.

try it out, swap the drives swap the props its nothing a small fork lift cant handle in a days worth of work. we have done it many times

good luck let us know how you make out

This is a quote from Tres Martin on another site about in and out spinning.






and Tres's response.

I would agree here as well, it shouldnt hurt to try it. for just a short run, just switch the props and put in reverse, just be careful docking. if you like it then switch the cables.

great info thanks!

The propshaft hight ( x-dim.) is about 5.1/8 diffrent between a #6 and a #3 or 3a it is the same on a 4 or 5 thogh.
And yes it plays a big roll in turning props !!!!

Also ,,,in is sternlift ,,out is bowlift on a V bottom ,,,not on a cat !!!

On some boats ,,it does not make a diffrents at all thogh.

It also depends on what props ,,,diameter and blades ,,not pitch !

I sometimes wonder why I respond and do the research to find the right answer and help and people dont even take the time to read...:rolleyes:

Maybe if you owned an apache we would listen to you. :party-smiley-004::grinser010:

just for that I'm gonna hit your brother, lol..I didn't make the rules, but I know you have to have read this thread and seen my quotes from a dude that has forgotten more about setups than we will ever know...yet "someone" who "knows it all" still posts that we are wrong...:rolleyes:..See ya at joels this year? how about you doing the bimini run in your 41?:drink:

I am with you on this prop in or out tried it on my boat rides a lot looser spinning in.

exactly, it creates bow lift and brings more out of the water. to quote Robert Duvall in days of Thunder, loose is fast, on the verge of out of control...but hey I'm just a guy with a 42 cig, a cousin of you guys 41...and you never know which Apache I may end up with ;)

Not to change the subject,but when doe's Jelly Fish open ?

Let's all play nice

I'm pretty sure it will be open for memorial kickoff if not before, weather permitting. I still need to get the drives back on the Tiger. The reason I knew about the props is I talked with Tres, very poignantly about the affects of turning them in on the Tiger and what to expect. He gave me some great advice and told me a few things that I would not have expected. Like putting in a spacer for cleaner water, even with a notch. and I'm always nice, just blunt nice :D

Well, i quess u shold believe Tres then .LOL:rolleyes:

For all the rest ,,u better off trying it !!!

Look Scott, I'm sure you want to help, but you have to realize that not everyone does things the same half ass way you do things. As for Tres, he and Brad teach courses in hydro-dynamics in his high speed driving class and is an accredited teacher in how to set up boats as well as his own record of wins on race courses. I have consistently seen you give wrong/bad advice on here and start confrontations and ruin threads. and as for taking advice, Yes, i will listen to the race winner and not the guy that barely can finish a race on setups. if you want to help people try doing the research and posting only abut what you know, not what you think. You do more damage than good. Do yourself a favor and just delete your posts on this thread and really help the people that ask questions.:cool:

Tres gave us good advise with our 97 big power Gun ,1/2" spacers did the trick for us.
The gun was a few mph faster spinning in as well as loose on the top side,I preferred spinning her out.
Our cat only likes turning in as she is like running on ice above 115 mph turning out,very dangerous night and day difference spinning her in!
It only takes a few hrs or less to swith 6 drives I say try it both ways and see how she feels. Unless someone with your exact same boat, drives ,X dimension and prop has real data to share running both ways..
Good Luck!.

I cant wait to see one of your systems, on my 20 cig Im doing a 3.3 whipple and thinking of adding that as well, I hope to see you guys on the bay this year to check one out...

Rob,,,thanks for beeing nice .LOL

Actually if u read your first post and mine ,,the only thing we do not agree on is if X-dim. makes a diffrents.
And it realy does.
Also Tres is refering to steped hulls not apache's with a notch in the post of yours .
Also a boat runs loser with sternlift because u lift the chine's out of the water,,the bow is out anyways at high speed's.
The other thing is,,i never lost or did not finish because of the setup,,only because of the engine . And i never said i was an engine guy.

I wish u luck and fun with your boat this year and happy eastern !!!

Maybe we can get along at the end !!!:party-smiley-004:

I would would be more than happy to show you our set up as well as take you out and show you how she works on the water.
And when the time comes to Whipple charge your 20' Cig Rudy could give you advise as to what to expect from our system on your set up.

We will be out in a month or so, Friday afternoon happy hr,Chesapeake Inn, Jelly Fish runs, Sat,Sun lunch runs to Inner Harbor etc
We have a fun group of boats that run down the Bay every weekend!
Look forward to seeing you out there!
Glen

Scott, this is what you posted and on a V bottom it is wrong...period.
X dim is only a fraction of the whole equation. X dim is only going to matter if the props aren't in good clean water. Everything that tres said is in relation to a straight hull, as my tiger is and a cousin of the 41. Rob knows about Tigers as I believe his old one was the first one made under Craig Barrie. Most people assume, and as Wild Warrior posted that in order to achieve a higher speed raising the X is the only way, They put in a half inch spacer to put the props down in cleaner water and got faster, I was told I may need and inch spacer. depending on each boat and it's testing.turning in carries higher so there fore boat will be more loose.
Now For Robs Apache, it is also a short stagger boat with a notched transom. by spinning in he will carry his bow higher, therefore keeping more of the boat out of the water at the same rpm, thereby increasing speed, A stern lift will push the boat down in the bow making it want to either porpoise of bow steer, neither is good for speed. Tonto has a short stagger as I think Ike's does as well, so they have done some testing and gives him good starting points.

Glen, i look forward to it...Billy (runninghot) called me when his got dynoed, we couldn't get him to shut up, lol! Also I'm in MD as well and dave at MDG will have my motor on the dyno next winter.

Ours is turning in, Warhawk and TONTO I believe are turning out. I think WW and Jerry's 41's are turning out.

this is very interesting please let us know what set ups people are using on a notched fully staggered 41.

really only want to read knowledgeable folks here or owners of a 41 not theorists!

where is magnum mark??!.... ..... ..... . .

C

Most Vees When the prop is on a upswing on the outside of the drive to travel fprward it will raise the bow. The water inthe middle of the drives is in the path of High PSI and several boundry layers face the blade entry making it less affective. Everyone forgets that Drive tow will increase or decrease the benefit Cats are far different/ Many things come into play, How prop is in the tunnel,deadrise,drive tow. Nost Apaches I ran liked drives turning in . but docking was more difficult.

Most Vees When the prop is on a upswing on the outside of the drive to travel fprward it will raise the bow. The water inthe middle of the drives is in the path of High PSI and several boundry layers face the blade entry making it less affective. Everyone forgets that Drive tow will increase or decrease the benefit Cats are far different/ Many things come into play, How prop is in the tunnel,deadrise,drive tow. Nost Apaches I ran liked drives turning in . but docking was more difficult.

thanks, I was writing it all down when we were talking... I cant wait to get The Tiger back together, I will be in touch when I do...:cool:

Personally Rob I like to spin them in but the down side is the docking however if you can get close to the dock shifting the trans in reverse of what you would normally do tends to help it straighten out instead of crab walking!!!!

I've run the drives spinning in and it carried the bow. The result was a 1 mph gain on the top end.

In my opinion the boat suffered in quartering seas. With the props this way the boat would enter the air and want to twist as it became airborne making it land on the chine at times. PS, landing on the chine hurts! ;) In head-on or following seas it carried the bow nicely and wasn't an issue.

I decided to switch back to standard rotation for ease of docking, the quartering sea issue and only a 1 mph gain it wasn't worth it in my experience.

This was a side-by-side set-up but I've seen a lot of staggered boats and most step bottoms turning in so I guess it's best to test!.

I think I will keep them spinning out for now-
Thanks Guys -Have a great summer !!

LOL!

How can I can in touch with Robert Tanner (TONTO)

pm steve nykamp, they talk frequently... or call tommy at chief and he can get him a message.

TONTO is turning in, I was just at Tanner's last week, and I think the last time I drove WARHAWK she was turning in also.

good move. smart. mm.

Why is that a good move. Why not try spinning in?