My only point is I love that every one just forgets the guy was involved in the history. And yes I believe he was involved in the cool ones that alot of people love.

I have dealt with him personally, and he was way more of a gentleman to me than some people I thought were straight up. The ones that I thought were the heros,fair and honorable turned out to be thieves.

Thank you Sean for the whole story, what I was looking for in the first place.

Sean
With a friend up in Boca.

I apologize for earlier post, in one statement it should have read; Thank GOD they did what they did or WE wouldn't have what we have today, which is one DAMN FINE OFFSHORE BOAT.

I just get so sick and tired of the same old BS every time an APACHE thread gets started, it turns into this. If I knew how to work the digital camera I would give ya'll some pics of the redo on TONTO, it is turning out sweet.

Robert

As a close observer, commentator, and chronicler of the Apache glory days.......

If I had to credit people by name regarding the "legendary" Apache hull. I would make the following points.

1. The "legend" boat was actually the 41..... the smaller and larger hulls never did anything remotely resembling "legendary" feats.

2. The PRIMARY characters in terms of making the hull famous and competitive were Ben Kramer and Bobby Saccenti...... for a variety of reasons. There were obviously guys back in the shop doing a variety of things..... Rigging, assembly, molding, fabricating, upholstery...etc...but they didn't get much attention and were , frankly, interchangeable, but talented contributers.

3. If I HAD to pick a #3 name in the "Apache legend" equation...it would be Keith Eickhert. If I had to pick a fourth...... Jack Kramer. If I had to pick a fifth....... Don Aronow, whose name appeared on the hulls as "designer"....... although I don't believe that Don ever "designed" anything himself. The final "front line" personality would have to be James Caan.

4. Many other people including my friend, Bret May, were involved in the Apache Team...... but none of them can claim IMHO any rights to being a "creator" of the boat or the name.

It seems that anybody who ever made a component of the boat or hull is now claiming authorship, and that's a shame. But, in an odd way, given the colorful, wheeler-dealer history of the marque....it's probably an inevitable phenomenon.

T2x........ sick of this tug of warpaint

T2x

I agree, "sick of this tug of warpaint"

Robert

Hey Robert , ya having "fun" sanding on those tabs and drives ? he he he

We're gonna try to slip up to Ft Lauderdale on Friday evening the 31st to see ya for a drink before heading for Tavernier ( notice I said "A" drink, ya right ) or are ya gonna blow us off for " Boca " ?


Sean, I'm serious about the 33's info, anything ??

Tug? Actually just a diehard Bobby Saccenti fan and supporter

1 drink with Robert...ok, you just keep telling yourself that!!!

This will probably start some more **** but the 33 was also a Bobby S boat......makes a great fishing boat but may have left a little bit to be desired for all out performance. I will send you a complete rundown on it sometime later today.

T2x as always you are now the father and wise man of the sport. I am sorry for stirring up the **** today but felt it necessary to enlighten some that may have been out of the loop. My lessons are done for now hopefully not to be used again.

Too Old you too I have the utmost respect for and are truly another gentleman in this sport. I would say you're todays grandfather but can't because you and I both know that you're really only 35 years old.....The Too Old thing is just a great cover bro....oops, was a great cover.

I hope this may open the door for the "Legends" of Apache to maybe post any facts they wish without fear of instilling another Cowboy & Indian scenario to be played out.

Tonto I doubt if I will be there for the show but you never can tell. Hope to see you soon bro.

Zoomnfun as I stated earlier I wasn't singling you out but you asked the question which opened the door I could use to try and explain some of it correctly and truthfully. Your thank you deserves a you're welcome, sir.

Ok I need to get back to concentrating on what I need to which is Jaguar Marine at the moment. We have lots of great stuff in the works and I will keep you posted.

Sean

Oh Yeah?...... you forgot two things

1. I may be older than Fred.

2. Brownie knows more than either of us.

T2x........... Contemplating a trip to Viagra Falls

Little ones WTF are you rolling in Windycity?

Stinson, I know you can rig one hell of a boat, but I have a whole new respect for you being able to type in the middle of the night .(post 233,234,235)

Ok Ok Ok...easy with the compliments, Sean is hard enough to live with as it is, but it gets a lot harder when his ego is so big!!!! LOL. Who knew that his plethera of useless knowledge would come in handy. Just Kidding.

Hey Tonto it's good to see you back on the board. I missed you!!!!Love you!!!!

Terra