Warpaint there is a long long story here.

Steve, i am fully aware of the long story.I have read all of your posts.Including deleted and edited posts

I believe to correct you sir that the first 5 or 6 boats with AP8 prefix starting with Number 1 "Warpath" were built at the 188th ST Factory that was located next to the site where Fort Apache used to stand and that would be Mr. Bobby Saccenti's shop at 3161 N.E. 188th St. N. Miami Beach 33125. Would you like the original phone number or perhaps original photos of the project under construction which I am sure there are not but just a couple of sets floating around. But you should know that if you are truly an Apache Tribe follower. If you have an original it should have a Mr. Ben Kramer and Mr. Bobby Saccenti and also Tom Evans, The Dawg, and Pedro in that same photo. How much are you willing to pay for it? One person that is oddly absent in the photo is Mr. Mark McManus that happened to join the crowd at a later date. I am willing to stand corrected but I would put LONG, LONG MONEY that I can't be. And that's a fact Jack, not to be confused with cashbrain Jack to keep the facts straight.

Sean Stinson
The Illustrious Historic One

Warpaint Yeah I know those early Posts I should write for Professional wrestling..

Sean I beleive Kramer had a office in the Parts room/area there for a while.

You sir are correct but I believe it was up above the offices on the mezzanine level of the stored parts area. This one I have to double check on because frankly I just cant remember as that AD whatever stuff hits now and then.

Sean

Jon :
You are right on the Sailboat Building..One of my Mentors was a sailor & Builder and thats where the Tapered mass came from on my first Cheetah Cat like up and foreward.

Short story here.Years ago I did a Boat with/for Danny at PP it ran very well ((the B1 Powerplay)Kicked Reggie's butt in the old B class and was National Champion! Anyway the boat got sold to I believe Teague and was raced again.

Something happened out west and it fell of a truck and slid down the road far enough to grind windows in the bottom.

I was overseas and Danny did not want to fix it ;from there as the story goes the boat went up for auction Dennis Conner's Builder (the Cat) saw it and bought it. he dissected the thing then he called Dan saying he could not believe the powerboat builders were that advanced and a lot of very nice complements it is his personal boat.. I was very proud of my work when I heard that. Coming from this person..

Hey, By the way. Did all of you see the latest Powerboat Magazine with the full page APACHE add? The picture must have been taken during a snow storm cause there is nothing there. And quite frankly," NO I DON'T GET IT".

Another thing and Sean Stinson help me out here. McManus worked at Holter Marine and then went for a short spin to Cigarette. He then ended up at APACHE which was across the street. He worked in the office for Ben Kramer and Bobby. When the company was disolved, Bobby and Mark hand shook on what models they would keep building. Mark took the '41 and larger, Bobby took '41 and below. That is that. What is so confusing???? Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Bobby Saccenti, Tommy Evans and Ben Kramer got the ball rolling and built the early '41 and raced a number of them. They then started production on the pleasure '41's and the rest is history. This information is pretty accurate and from the most reliable source there is. Figure it out yourself whom that may be..

My name is Little Tommy and I won't hide behind another name.

Close Tommy

Halter is based in New Orleans I think Mark was one of three people they brought when they purchased Cigarette..in the late 70's to help run it..

Well from what I know (of course Rumors) from Halter Don bought back Cigarette then sold it again, this time Mark stayed with Don and was a great project Manager and become well known in the boat circles. Mark then went to the Kramer World after Don sold his new company, of course the deal went bad, and ..............................thus Mark running Hollywood. Bob and Benny started it, the Apache Tribe, Mark was and is a great part of the History, but did not start the 41, 47, 36 etc. It is fact do the research.

I have kept my mouth shut, but the insults flown at some friends and my boat and intellect as well is getting on my nerves. Even though OSO is "not" considered a market for The New Apache by their terms, it seems Steve you are spending some serious time here. I am not a famous builder nor have I won awards for such. I have worked on boats and understand the design. I am not ignorant, nor stupid, I purchased the boat I own after research. I enjoy the look, fell and performance.

I have been around this hobby for too many years, and watched a few too many come and go. I wish everyone well in their endeavors, but this is a forum for everyone and every opinion. Some people enjoy coming here to learn about the boats, their history and even speak with pride on what they own. Do not continue to ruin this for everyone, this is a place to enjoy.

Nobody has the right to continue to cut down other people here. If you love your ride great, that does not mean I have to love it, nor should I bad mouth it as well. Ask my opinion, I will give it, I love to talk boats all day. (I only but in too often when it cones to Too Old) I have been on Race, Pleasure and POS. You may think my ride is a POS, but if you look back, I never asked you. Come up North and let me take you out for a Spin, it is not original and has been straightened and changed a little, but even on a 30 degree day in 8-10's you might even appreciate it's heritage. If you would like to discuss in details or take me up on myoffer you can reach me at my office most days (I do have to work in order to afford all of this) or PM me, I will give you a number to reach me at any particular time.

Audiofn

Do you really want to change a Formula to this ??

Lastly, ever one answers to this Windycitybreeze yet the post are never there for me to read, are the Board Gods deleting them, if so let us know who, when and why.

To the rest of the board, I offer my apology for this post, I promised after the spring of 2001, I would not post and embarrass myself or Jeff again. I do ensure this is my last.