Baja 25 OL whipple??
03-16-2008, 10:20 PM
#25
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When and how do I Supercharge ??
Whipple makes the only supercharger I would use on a NON-STOCK 496. They make a wondeful kit and at 5-7 lbs of boost with a correct ECM program they work well on 91 or better Octane. Whipple is also the only supercharger builder who has taken the time and effort to get their supercharger users proper ECM reprogramming. Anybody who tells you you don't need a different program in your ECM to run a supercharger is blowing Smoke Up Your A**.
It is not possible to go from negative manifold pressure to positive manifold pressure (boost) without serious changes in air fuel ratios and spark timing, and that won't be possible without changes in the ECM program !
The real issue is can supercharging be done reliably on a stock 496 block with stock pistons. My professional and personal expierence is NO, NO, NO!!
Why, because the stock 496 piston and iron cylinder head do not accept boost above 3-4 lbs without knock and most times under continued boost the piston fails in the area right next to the valve relief. I have seen to many more stock 496's that did NOT make it with supercharging,Whipple or otherwise than I have heard of or seen that did. Sure there will be a few here and there that with really good fuel, low boost and LUCK will make it longer, buts its a crap shoot at best. MY guess would be less than 15%. I don't consider those good odds at all !
It was not really the fault of the supercharger, it was a block not equipped for supercharging. Raylar now builds many 496's equipped for supercharging with proper pistons, rods , cams and programming that make well into the 700-800HP range without failure under boost of 5-8 psi.
Will they last as long between freshenings as a normally aspirated engine, my expeirence says NO, but most supercharged engines don't because they extract more power per cubic inch than normally aspirated engines and there is a price to be paid for that power per cubic inch increase. Its called higher stress loads, shorter ring and bearing life and sensitivity to fuel and heat issues that any supercharged engine will face. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING! Quit thinking about it or trying to get it, you won't get there and your boating expierences will be maddening and frustrating!
If you want the bigger power and torque levels of supercharging, start with a correctly equipped and prepared motor and the expense that goes along with that!
Be prepared for shorter overhaul periods and the expense of that and realize that anytime you extend the limits of horsepower per cubic inch you will always be closer to potential engine issues and problems.
If we build normally aspirated engines with supercharged equivalent power levels by kicking the compression up to lets say 12 to 1 or higher even with racing fuel required, the added horsepower per cubic inch will take its toll on the engine and its useful life. Overhaul periods will be sooner and the potential for short life failure will be there.
I am not trying to tell boaters not to use supercharging. Just do it right on the right foundation and be prepared for the costs of higher power levels ! Thats it in a nutshell, Hope you are careful and well thought with your engine plans.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
It is not possible to go from negative manifold pressure to positive manifold pressure (boost) without serious changes in air fuel ratios and spark timing, and that won't be possible without changes in the ECM program !
The real issue is can supercharging be done reliably on a stock 496 block with stock pistons. My professional and personal expierence is NO, NO, NO!!
Why, because the stock 496 piston and iron cylinder head do not accept boost above 3-4 lbs without knock and most times under continued boost the piston fails in the area right next to the valve relief. I have seen to many more stock 496's that did NOT make it with supercharging,Whipple or otherwise than I have heard of or seen that did. Sure there will be a few here and there that with really good fuel, low boost and LUCK will make it longer, buts its a crap shoot at best. MY guess would be less than 15%. I don't consider those good odds at all !
It was not really the fault of the supercharger, it was a block not equipped for supercharging. Raylar now builds many 496's equipped for supercharging with proper pistons, rods , cams and programming that make well into the 700-800HP range without failure under boost of 5-8 psi.
Will they last as long between freshenings as a normally aspirated engine, my expeirence says NO, but most supercharged engines don't because they extract more power per cubic inch than normally aspirated engines and there is a price to be paid for that power per cubic inch increase. Its called higher stress loads, shorter ring and bearing life and sensitivity to fuel and heat issues that any supercharged engine will face. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING! Quit thinking about it or trying to get it, you won't get there and your boating expierences will be maddening and frustrating!
If you want the bigger power and torque levels of supercharging, start with a correctly equipped and prepared motor and the expense that goes along with that!
Be prepared for shorter overhaul periods and the expense of that and realize that anytime you extend the limits of horsepower per cubic inch you will always be closer to potential engine issues and problems.
If we build normally aspirated engines with supercharged equivalent power levels by kicking the compression up to lets say 12 to 1 or higher even with racing fuel required, the added horsepower per cubic inch will take its toll on the engine and its useful life. Overhaul periods will be sooner and the potential for short life failure will be there.
I am not trying to tell boaters not to use supercharging. Just do it right on the right foundation and be prepared for the costs of higher power levels ! Thats it in a nutshell, Hope you are careful and well thought with your engine plans.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Last edited by Raylar; 03-16-2008 at 10:22 PM.
03-17-2008, 11:09 AM
#26
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Whipple makes the only supercharger I would use on a NON-STOCK 496. They make a wondeful kit and at 5-7 lbs of boost with a correct ECM program they work well on 91 or better Octane. Whipple is also the only supercharger builder who has taken the time and effort to get their supercharger users proper ECM reprogramming. Anybody who tells you you don't need a different program in your ECM to run a supercharger is blowing Smoke Up Your A**.
It is not possible to go from negative manifold pressure to positive manifold pressure (boost) without serious changes in air fuel ratios and spark timing, and that won't be possible without changes in the ECM program !
The real issue is can supercharging be done reliably on a stock 496 block with stock pistons. My professional and personal expierence is NO, NO, NO!!
Why, because the stock 496 piston and iron cylinder head do not accept boost above 3-4 lbs without knock and most times under continued boost the piston fails in the area right next to the valve relief. I have seen to many more stock 496's that did NOT make it with supercharging,Whipple or otherwise than I have heard of or seen that did. Sure there will be a few here and there that with really good fuel, low boost and LUCK will make it longer, buts its a crap shoot at best. MY guess would be less than 15%. I don't consider those good odds at all !
It was not really the fault of the supercharger, it was a block not equipped for supercharging. Raylar now builds many 496's equipped for supercharging with proper pistons, rods , cams and programming that make well into the 700-800HP range without failure under boost of 5-8 psi.
Will they last as long between freshenings as a normally aspirated engine, my expeirence says NO, but most supercharged engines don't because they extract more power per cubic inch than normally aspirated engines and there is a price to be paid for that power per cubic inch increase. Its called higher stress loads, shorter ring and bearing life and sensitivity to fuel and heat issues that any supercharged engine will face. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING! Quit thinking about it or trying to get it, you won't get there and your boating expierences will be maddening and frustrating!
If you want the bigger power and torque levels of supercharging, start with a correctly equipped and prepared motor and the expense that goes along with that!
Be prepared for shorter overhaul periods and the expense of that and realize that anytime you extend the limits of horsepower per cubic inch you will always be closer to potential engine issues and problems.
If we build normally aspirated engines with supercharged equivalent power levels by kicking the compression up to lets say 12 to 1 or higher even with racing fuel required, the added horsepower per cubic inch will take its toll on the engine and its useful life. Overhaul periods will be sooner and the potential for short life failure will be there.
I am not trying to tell boaters not to use supercharging. Just do it right on the right foundation and be prepared for the costs of higher power levels ! Thats it in a nutshell, Hope you are careful and well thought with your engine plans.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
It is not possible to go from negative manifold pressure to positive manifold pressure (boost) without serious changes in air fuel ratios and spark timing, and that won't be possible without changes in the ECM program !
The real issue is can supercharging be done reliably on a stock 496 block with stock pistons. My professional and personal expierence is NO, NO, NO!!
Why, because the stock 496 piston and iron cylinder head do not accept boost above 3-4 lbs without knock and most times under continued boost the piston fails in the area right next to the valve relief. I have seen to many more stock 496's that did NOT make it with supercharging,Whipple or otherwise than I have heard of or seen that did. Sure there will be a few here and there that with really good fuel, low boost and LUCK will make it longer, buts its a crap shoot at best. MY guess would be less than 15%. I don't consider those good odds at all !
It was not really the fault of the supercharger, it was a block not equipped for supercharging. Raylar now builds many 496's equipped for supercharging with proper pistons, rods , cams and programming that make well into the 700-800HP range without failure under boost of 5-8 psi.
Will they last as long between freshenings as a normally aspirated engine, my expeirence says NO, but most supercharged engines don't because they extract more power per cubic inch than normally aspirated engines and there is a price to be paid for that power per cubic inch increase. Its called higher stress loads, shorter ring and bearing life and sensitivity to fuel and heat issues that any supercharged engine will face. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING! Quit thinking about it or trying to get it, you won't get there and your boating expierences will be maddening and frustrating!
If you want the bigger power and torque levels of supercharging, start with a correctly equipped and prepared motor and the expense that goes along with that!
Be prepared for shorter overhaul periods and the expense of that and realize that anytime you extend the limits of horsepower per cubic inch you will always be closer to potential engine issues and problems.
If we build normally aspirated engines with supercharged equivalent power levels by kicking the compression up to lets say 12 to 1 or higher even with racing fuel required, the added horsepower per cubic inch will take its toll on the engine and its useful life. Overhaul periods will be sooner and the potential for short life failure will be there.
I am not trying to tell boaters not to use supercharging. Just do it right on the right foundation and be prepared for the costs of higher power levels ! Thats it in a nutshell, Hope you are careful and well thought with your engine plans.
Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
Your 525 package in the above pictures is beautiful. If it works as well as it looks you have a winner.
03-17-2008, 11:23 AM
#27
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03-17-2008, 11:56 AM
#28
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That is a sharp looking boat. The red looks great. Very unique choice.
Perl-
I had a red boat 15+ years ago, it's no harder to keep clean than white.
Only downside was it got HOT in the sun. Was great for early&late season boating though-- you could lay on the deck and absorb sun like a reptile.
Perl-
I had a red boat 15+ years ago, it's no harder to keep clean than white.
Only downside was it got HOT in the sun. Was great for early&late season boating though-- you could lay on the deck and absorb sun like a reptile.
03-17-2008, 02:07 PM
#29
the Flightmaster
Platinum Member
I agree totally with the above comments. Great looking motor going into a hot looking 25 Outlaw. I´m sure you are going to really enjoy it, too!
03-17-2008, 05:20 PM
#30
Registered
[QUOTE=socalstone;2487715 Was great for early&late season boating though-- you could lay on the deck and absorb sun like a reptile.[/QUOTE]
haha. ive always liked solid colored boats. my friend has a boat thats all black on the sides, and half way through july after being in the water for a month or so it looks like crap. thats why i was thinking it would be a biotch to keep clean.
haha. ive always liked solid colored boats. my friend has a boat thats all black on the sides, and half way through july after being in the water for a month or so it looks like crap. thats why i was thinking it would be a biotch to keep clean.
