Why trash talk
 

Why is it that people like to trash talk Baja. I've had a 29 and currently have a 36 and never had any issues. Just had a survey on the 36 for the insurance co and found no stress cracks and no moister on meter anywere, boat was put togethr nice. All tests done in past on the 36 say it's a great boat and crushes waves, won 2001 performance boat mag award. Back in 99 they had the same power as a stock Cig, same gauges, same controls, better Mcleod seats, vacuflush toilet, same hand laid fiberglass process with bolsa core hull and sides, hull and deck were plexus bonded together and threw screwed, plus some other items Cig didn't offer. I know Cig has always had the rep of the best hull and a clean rigging in engine compartment but after that I don't see the diff. I was looking for a 38 top gun last year and found that the 36 OL had more cockpit room, a better cabin layout and some other items the Cig didn't, all which come in handy with Kids on board. I'll always like the top gun and thats what attracted me to performance boats but don't get the trash talk by other boat owners on the forum.:angry-smiley-038:

the same thing as chevy vs ford vs dodge its a guy thing i guess

I have wondered the same thing, I am on my 3rd Baja and I am not a Baja loyalist, it just worked out that way when shopping for the next boat, it just so happened that a Baja was for sale in the size range and year range I was looking for, I was actually looking at fountains before I bought the one I have now, longer boats with more power for similar money or less, it wasn't that the Baja was less money!
I can say I have not had what I would call quality issues, yes I had to do some minor sundeck repairs on one boat 20 years old which I would say was more wear.
One things I have noticed is alot of the Baja's of years past had at the time cool graphics, but become dated looking before long, maybe that is part of it?

Simple, most of the population are idiots.

Yep!
Oh, by the way ED, Hummers suck:poopoo::D

I honestly think a lot of it is a money/ego thing. Some people have a lot of money to throw around and go for a more highly priced boat. Bajas are a hell of a bang for your $$ boat though. I'll always like all go fast boats!

Ive owned three bajas and a fountain. Had a lot more gripes about the fountain than any of my bajas.

I think it has more to do with the fact they sell more boats, if they are outselling other boat builders and they have a certain percentage of problems no higher than other builders, they have more complaints. I think they also sold more of an entry level go fast and a lot of first time buyers who knew very little about boating bought them, so they had more problems due to lack of maintenance, improper storage and abuse.

Because Baja doesn't make cool shirts......

there is not.one Baja out there that's can ride in the big stuff.like a cig or Apache.... its fact...

in my case I had a 86 Baja 320 force and my friends that worked at Baja said its one of the best rough water resin bucket hulls they ever made... that being said.. there are quite a bit more bulkheads and reinforcement in my cig then the Baja and if shows...... your not laying that much more for just a name...sorry.... bajas are not as good as a cig in real rough water conditions...

there is not.one Baja out there that's can ride in the big stuff.like a cig or Apache.... its fact...

in my case I had a 86 Baja 320 force and my friends that worked at Baja said its one of the best rough water resin bucket hulls they ever made... that being said.. there are quite a bit more bulkheads and reinforcement in my cig then the Baja and if shows...... your not laying that much more for just a name...sorry.... bajas are not as good as a cig in real rough water conditions...

Agreed, however when you compare "real world" use I think Baja offers more bang for the buck, really, how many of us spend the majority of our time running offshore in 8 Foot swells?

I have a hard time justifying spending 600K on a boat with a Porta potti and manual bolsters, don't get me wrong, Cigarette builds a HELL of a boat!! And Skip Braver has done a GREAT job, however in my opinion you DO pay a premium for the "Brand" it's not ALL about better quality.

I personally think Outerlimits and Nortech build a boat equal to Cigarette, but, they haven't been around 50 years and aren't marketed quite as well.

Just my .02

With west end of Lake Erie I would say I run my boat in more messed up water then 70% of users on a more then average basis, One of the reasons things are manul on Cigs and some others like bolsters, zipper doors and such is less rattles and less to break, my buddyys 41 Saber had noithing but zipper compartments when built and in no way was there a rattle on that boat, every time I hit a wave on the Baja it sounded like something was gonna break with all the rattles and often it did break something..

Today coming back =from the island I hit the Jet Express wake that was easily 8 ft and I didnt see it till last minute, I was so far in the air that when the boat came down my feet came 5" off the floor of the boat... landed so solid i was shocked..... and my truck keys were still sitting on the storage shelf when I got to the dock... The Baja would not have landed like that....

The Baja has more space, only kinda... I have friends, dogs and kids overnighting many weekends... never a space issue, I use the boat and over night with my girl and I EVERY weekend...the 7 ft v berth rocks!!

Your wrong, look at a 36 outlaw when you can. Compare apples to apples, a late 90's 35 cafe with the same power as the outlaw won't be any faster and handles the same water,but the baja has way more space and creature comforts. A 40 outlaw is every bit as good as a top gun. Compare same size boats of same years and you'll see. As for the newer cigarettes now those are awesome.

if they were the same build and quality they would cost similar, I have seen many..my buddy had a 36 outlaw, now has a 38 Gun, the gun crushes WAY better... sorry...and thats a TS gun over the straight Baja hull... TS never ride as good as straight bottom boats..again, I am also referring to our Lake Erie, not inland lakes or oceans....

This video is my Mistress in 4-6 footers we see regularly on the great lakes, newer cigs run it just as good without beating you up... I never said the Baja cant run it, I just said you will feel it a ton more...

http://youtu.be/RkIdBlNuxMM

And yes, the Baja has a ton more space I agree.. in my case I AM comparing apples to apples... :)


my 86 32 baja to my 85 35 Cig

my buddys 36 outlaw to his 38 TS gun

Seems apples to apples to me....

For the record I also never BASHED Baja....

some of my best memories were in my Baja...

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13441223833191

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13441224119192

I have seen A LOT of big dollar boats with power bolsters and/or foot rests but, the cabin zippers seem to be pretty common though. I guess like most things it comes down to price and intended usage.

I was checking out a Outerlimits 39 Stiletto in Kingston last year, ran WELL over 100MPH, power bolsters, full cabin, and air conditioning, pretty sure it would handle rough water too [-:

But, it did have cabin zippers, which I always thought looked "cheap" on a big dollar boat, I never thought of rattles, I always figured it was for weight.

ANY fan of rough water, regardless of brand loyalty will enjoy this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttN2stWdoeg

damn right!! I get that water next month here... woo!!

they do suck gas :lolhit:

LUCKY YOU!

I LOVE rough water, looks like a blast!

Michael

Awesome videos.

I love that video, and really like it at about 2:46 :poopoo:

I don't think that the problem comes from the boat at all. Baja has been both lucky and unlucky to have become the standard for performance boats. What I mean by this is most people recognize the name and go after it, unfortunately this brings a lot of people into the baja world that are giving the company a bad name. These are the people that are buying the boat for nothing more than a status symbol and not because they enjoy boating.

So, I bought my Cig as a status symbol??? maybe I'm reading this wrong but that is far from the case, I bought mine in my case because it is the STRONGEST 35 ft boat probably made especially for the year (1985) I needed a boat that could take my abuse on Lake Erie, nor can I afford a 100,000 boat of ANY brand...

I didn't see this thread being about or knocking Cigarette at all, quit being so sensitive. I do see that you keep wanting to point out how much better your cigarette is in your opinion than a Baja, I didn't think it was about that either?:confused:

cig is if you look at his post on cig forum... but that's not what I was saying either... I said maybe I read it wrong but it seemed the other poster said people buy cigs for status symbols.. maybe he meant Baja.. if so I'm wrong...

I'm not being sensitive... I dont care that's much... I'm happy with my ride...that's all that's really matters for all of us!

I never once bashed Baja did I? nope

Full force, I never once said anything about you and or your brand of boat. I don't have a clue how you got that from what I had said.

Dude really??
your boat is 27 years old,come on now,,enjoy your boat but dont think you have something you dont..

there nothing wrong with having a older boat ,,the only think you boat has in common with a new cig is the name...

enjoy your boat but please stop telling us how great it is:ernaehrung004:

[QUOTE=1987pachanga22;3747019]Full force, I never once said anything about you and or your brand of boat. I don't have a clue how you got that from what I had satge person who started fge thread posted in the cig thread and then came and staffed this one... that's fine and all good... as far as your post I must have read into it differently and I was just waking up... sorry I do.t mean any harm and just use my experiancss as examples...

my Baja was a great boat... gave me good memories and kinda held up to my abuse... I have nothing horrible to say about any boat or Baja...well maybe bayliners.....

we all love baiting in general and enjoy what we work hard for...

what do I think.it is that it isn't? you tell me? did I say it is fast? nope... did I say it is perfect...nope...I did say that it takes. cig water better then any 35 footer I been on... and until you ride in one you have no idea... do the research on the mistress... just like I also say my 320 Baja took big water great also for a 32 footer...with my 320 I would often get somewhere before many others with similar boats.....

ride on many different boats in lake Erie then report back.... I am not trying to turn it into a pissing match... there is a reason cig is still building boats and it isn't because they suck and bajas are better....

I'm good with all boats so don't make me out to be so bad... my opinions come from all around first hand experiance with boats I have actually been on from bayliners to Apache and. most in between... not what I read they can do.......

its not even a cigarette thing... if I moved into a 357 formula like I was gonna do I would be saying the same thing......

the Baja used as example against me is a 36 outlaw..... who made the hull? Cig....

you dont want to turn this into a pissing match???really???
you come on here and you keep telling us how great your cig is and you dont think people are going to get defensive????

we all know Cig are great ,,,,but in our little world we think we have something worth bragging about as well ,,so please let us fool our selfs by thinking that..

that's funny because the person which started this thread did it over in the cig forum...lol

again...show me where I said Baja sucks...... you won't find that.... I do think they are under rated in some cases...

in your own special way you are ...
everytime you come on here (Baja section)and you tell us what a great wave crusher you have you in your own way are telling us everything else just sucks..

ya ok..... go back a few pages and look for my big water Baja video .... I gave Baja tons of props in that and still do... so take it how.you wanna.... go Wycherley the video..wasn't on a inland boat slop lake... go find.it...its actually a good video and its a BAJA

I have owned a 24,29, and 36. I think the hate comes form a few things.

1. Cig, or other true offshore companies do not make a 212 bow rider islander that you can buy new for $25k with a trailer. Like it or not that little boat IS a Baja, and many will base their opinion on the cheapest one they make.

2. My 36 had all the opitons- Monster gauges, McCleod bolsters, a/c, latham, kiekhaefer k planes HOWEVER, some things were really cheap as well. Fake offshore mounts, wiring and riging was a mess and not thought out, cabin interior was as cheap as they come, headliner was a POS, back seat back was held in with plastic body fastners, lots of cheap plastic that yellowed over a short time, very small wood screws holding important things on that most thru bolt, etc. As nice as that boat looked it didn't hold up in a lot of ways.

I used to tell people it was the difference between a camaro and a corvette compared to most true "offshore" boats.

I miss the cabin room, and the deck room. The 36 has some of the best lines out there IMO. The boat was a great boat for how 90% of the "performance" boaters use their rides.

I was single when I owned the 36, never ever had a problem getting hot chics on it.......guess they don't know Baja is a substandard brand?

Over all I guess they could have did things better, however then they would hit the price point they were after. Bang for buck they are hard to beat, and look better than others that are at the same price point. My 36 in 2003 had a sticker of allmost $300k but was purchased on a clean deal for $200k, there was only a few other options for a 36/38 ft boat new in the price point, and they didn;t look as good as the OL IMO

Side note.......don't try to make them go fast :)

pretty much my point... and btw...don't get me going on the wiring...lol

we all like what we like and have opinions... no big deal.....I'm good.... I still like Baja as any other offshore boat...

I agree, Despite what a lot of boaters will tell you, many people with "offshore" boats spend the majority of there time in calm inland waters, tied to a local pier/sandbar and the occasional poker run. In my opinion its a VERY small percentage of the offshore population that boat the MAJORITY of the time in 8-10ft swells. I have done it aboard friends boats, and, yes its fun...........for 15 minutes, would I want to spend ALL day pounding through that slop getting pounded by waves? Nope. And without stepping on anyone's toes you AREN'T gonna sail off the crest off 10 ft waves and NOT feel it when you land regardless of what 35ft boat you own, its just common physics.

So, would a 36ft Outlaw "handle" HUGE swells the way an Apache or Cig would? probably not, but, as a former owner of one, how often did you actually run in 10ft swells? Probably not real often, which is my point.