Funny, i'd say cigarette is the most mentioned brand. Although that's only because so many people refer to just about any offshore as "one o' dem dere cigarette boats".

Other than that and i'd say Donzi is most mentioned, at least in rollovers I've heard about, and i've heard more complaints about ill handling on Donzi's than any other brand (including on this site). But I really haven't heard of enough rollovers (or ill-handling boats for that matter) to draw any type of conclusion. I'm sure plenty of Fountains get rolled.

I was in Destin for the Emerald Coast PR and saw it in person. As I said before, in this particular incident, yes, a restraint system may have prevented some injuries. The problem is you can't pick and choose what type of incident you are going to be involved in. Suppose that boat rolls to one side or the other and takes on water? Suppose he stuffs it into the next wave and the boat goes under? Suppose it's a cat and he gets the nose in the air like that and it blows over? We are beating this horse to death. Those that are in favor of restraints will remain in favor of them and those opposed will remain opposed. Bottom line on this incident is if the captain is aware of his surroundings, knows his equipment and knows HIS limitations on operating said equipment, the incident never happens and he doesn't need any kind of restraint.

I'd like to bring up another angle.

I wear my seatbelt in my car in part because it holds me in my seat during emergency maneuvers and allows me to maintain contol and avoid a crash.

Perhaps there are cases where a boat operator might be able to make corrections and avoid a roll or a stuff if he is belted into his seat and able to retain control of the steering and throttle, whereas if he were not belted he'd be on the floor or in the water and the boat would be rolling, spinning, or stuffing.

You make some very valid points. My choice to install lap belts was not without much thought. I was a motorcyle road racer and snowcross racer. Both have a common theme, when crashing, get away from the cycle/sled. A broken leg is my testiment to getting away from the mass of metal, or lack of. After that, I still decided to install the belts. Given the fact that I hope to always use what Harry Calahand said: Man's got to know his limitations.

If you are gonna run hard in a high performance boat with open cockpit ( not a race boat ), you need the lap belts. If it is a race boat or a boat that can run over 120, you need the full gear and a enclosed cockpit. I would not consider going on a poker run without em unless I was not gonna go over 40 in calm water! The girl in Destin was tossed at about 70 and has broken pelvis and internal injuries- Think about it. All this Talk about stuffin and rollin and crashin into seawalls ect is not revelant because if you are gonna do that kinda driving, you need to be a professional in a race boat set up to handle these speed induced hazzards- Lapbelts! don't leave home without them!~

I also was a snowcross racer and a motocross racer and also know how to bail off when things are not going well. In a boat I will take may chances. I installed my lap belts and handles today. Here are a couple pictures.

I love this forum becasue it is a place where we can all voice our option. I guess on this subject we will just agree to disagree.

Don

Very nice Don, Are those Tiger poker run belts? Did they supply the material for the nylon grab loops?

Thanks, yes they are Tiger Poker run belts. They are very easy to install, took around an hour to install all three. No they did not suply the material for the nylon handles. The grap handles are made from a tie down strap I bought from home depot. I found a red that was close to the color of the interior and cut the straps to the required length. I secured the nylon with a through bolt and fender washers. They came out really good. Functional and only cost me about 30 bucks.

Next is the rear passenger foot rests. I should have them built and installed theis week.

Don

Thanks Don. Again nice job. I'm off to Home Depot (Tony's Garage) looking for some yellow nylon strap material. Actually might check West Marine too. Richard

You might want to check with Northern Tool and equipment, and/or TSC.


Hope this helps,
Don

WHO wants to manufacture a poker run type belt for the offshore crowd?

Its easy to make them. I think the problem is product liability. The first person to drowned with the belts on will start a lawsuit to sue the air out of you and try to take everything you own.
I understand every ones logic but I believe if you going fast enough to toss people out your going too fast. Why do you think Hi performance insurance is so expensive? There are so many dangerous operators out there. Its kind of like other sports where the intermidiate experience group causes the most accidents. Where the are good enough to have confidence but not experienced enough to have good sense. Well just my old school 2 cents.
Jim

I don't think there is a right answere here. The velcro seat belts will hold you in beter than nothin.You will be able to take a bigger jolt than you would without them but the bottom line is speed kills Used inproperly and carlesly someone is gonna get hurt It's no differant than a car.......run it fast enough....hard enough.......long enough......and be stupid about it someone will pay the price

what would be nice is a restraining system that would release when Submerged ...LIke the Hydrostatic Life Vest ... I wonder what the statistics are for boating injuries .....Striking part of the boat type injuries versus being completely ejected and injuried ? Or even being ejected and the boat races on out of control (see Lanyard) ....

Get tighter bolster seats. They will hold you in place better then a lap belt.


Whats the point, you'd already be dead from hitting the water and the boat falling on top of you.

Having rolled a boat and having to unlatch my belts while under water, I would NEVER strap into an open boat without an on board full time air supply. In the time it took me to unlatch my belts I would have drown. I would rather slow down than die strapped into an open boat

Furthermore, if you have ever seen what is left of most boats that roll, you would not want to be strapped to it without a protective canopy. Having a 10,000 lbs boat land on you at high speed is only gonna have bad things come of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihN6dNUP5Sc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsOvV...eature=related

Vid 1 I cant see the seats.
Vid 2 it looks like they are standing?

lap belts may have kept them in the boat in Vid 1, but if i recall correctly, they both SURVIVED. If it went over and they were strapped in, they'd be DEAD. Thank you for proving my point.