Are Seatbelts Safe For Boaters ????
 

Been seeing all the accident reports where go fast boats lose the operators and passengers suddenly when things go wrong. Seems like the guy in LOTO got ejected with his passengers when they hit a wave at dusk WOT but the boat kept going just fine until impact with boat and dock. Lucky no one in the boat or on the dock... any how, if the driver had his kill switch attached .. end of story? But I was wondering what if he had seatbelts? Would this be more dangerous than ejection ? I guess it the same in a car , sometimes the belt kills you but most of the time it saves you...Any studies about this as pertains to boats as I am thinking about the installing of some belts in my cat boat!

No, but lanyards are !!!!

in an open boat no thanks! closed canopy boat yep!

Reasoning?
 

So far two negatives on the belts in a open boat which is , I believe, the conventonial wisdom on this subject. I am thinking a little out of the box here but wonder why anyone is willing to or wants to get ejected from the boat when there is a chance to stay with the boat and regain control! What is the compelling reason that it is safer for you to be ejected?? Do you know of any logic / reason / argument / fact / studies/ safety laws/ to support this idea? most of the accidents quoted in this forum were not direct, hard impact crashes into a solid object but rather sharp turns or rough water which caused the crew to be ejected.

The issue is that if the boat were to flip or sink, you'd most likely drown- that is, if you weren't already dead from the impact. It's hard to unfasten a seatbelt when you're unconscious.

If you're in a pleasure boat with big, comfy buckets going really fast in rough water, there's a good chance you could get tossed. Now, if you're in a boat made to be doing that kind of running, chances are you'd be in a nice, deep, snug bolster and you'll probably be alright. Now, if the boat you're running is one of those models that has a bottom design that's prone to spinning and/or rolling, your chances for survival are probably much better if you're tossed free. If you're wearing the proper life jacket (i.e. one that won't be torn off in the impact and will float you upright when unconscious) then your chances are pretty good.


If you're strapped into the seat, you'd better have a canopy to prevent the onrush of wanter from breaking your neck and you'd probably want a safety diver in a helicopter to remove your unconscious body from the capsule.




This one is about a week old- if you were belted in, your chances of making it out would be slim.

Chris got to it before I did to answer it fully. But stuffing and being restrained where I couldnt move would not work. A lot of these wreck lately havve been some form of driver error as well. Also if a boat hits hard enough to eject a person that type of shock going into the body with "seatbelt" holding them down it no where to go lot of force for an open boat.

OK, so I get the idea that to belt into the bolsters is not good. Guess I will squeeze my fat ass in as tight as possible and hang on for dear life with laynyards attached to my approved life vest and try not to do anything stupid while rocking along in my canoe!

jpd motorsports, where are you located never heard of you before.

not directed at you,JPD MOTORSPORTS in okc.:chill-pill:

Yeah, I'm not seeing where you asked jbbeard where he was located or who he is. I think he needs a drink :drink:

it takes a lot to make that hull go over.Ive Been in a 31 AO on its side and didnt go over,Driver was doing stupid stuff.


http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3...ortest4sk9.png

its all well:cool-smiley-011:

The only time I have been boat injured happened when I stuffed mt V bottom and was tossed up and over into the cabin door while wearing a full race outfit. Broke my shoulder when I landed upside down in the hole. Was testing my boat in rough water Lake Pochatrain for Halter 200 back in 82. Wish I had a seat belt on then! Stupid but I was young and bulletproof and wanted to race so bad I ignored common since and went out anyway. Now I never take chances and run half throttle unless someone try to Pass me!

I thought 42 Fountain Poker Run comes with 5-point harness.

Open cockpit. Not sure I'd be wearing them.

A 31AO is just a 30 Chris Cat. More than a few have stuffed and rolled. You can F- up in just about anything... if you try hard enough.

If your running your boat so hard you can't stay in the seat your just running foolishly. Its different in a race with safety crews and a contained area. As far as regaining control what have you hit during those 100's of feet you covered with your boat out of control?
Jim

No

Really?
 

I heard that there was no record of the chris cat delaminating or coming apart or doing anything to kill the crew. I also heard its one of the best designs ever for handling and saftey. Which insidents that killed someone do you know about? I never heard of one rolling one- have you? I think its possible to stuff any boat under 500 feet! I am interested cause you are right about the awesome being copy cat of chris cat!

I don't know of any Chris cats coming apart or any fatalities. I have heard of several that have gotten out of shape and tossed the occupants and I stuffed one pretty hard myself. I was going too fast in bigger water than I should have been in and went straight into the face of a big swell.

You are correct that the Chris is very stable boat and they're no lightweights. I don't know that much about the AO but I'm positive they're lighter and not as robust. They're very heavily built and structural failures on any Chris product are rare. Physics is physics though and you can roll anything if you try hard enough.

This is an interesting subject.
1) Fountain has now factory installed a seat/shoulder harness system in their 42 poker run boats with sit down bolster seats.

Any comments on why one of the biggest and most knowledgeable performance boat builders has elected to install such a restraint device in this boat?
IMHO: Reggie may need a new hair piece, but the guy does know racing V hulls and building performance V hull boats. If he (and trust me on this one) does not believe in a product, it is NOT going to be on one of his boats. His, yes his because his name is on the side of the boat.

2) Tiger performance sells poker run seat belts that are attached using velcro.
http://www.tigerperformance.com/catalog.asp?pageno=7

Again, IMHO these would help in keeping a person in the seat if they were to encounter a big wake, etc. But, if a subjected to enough force, the velco would release and the person would exit the boat. Same goes for the quick release if the person wants to exit the seat in an emergency. I know, there are some that will say "what if the person is unconious". I cannot answer that but to say, I have been tossed out at 65 mph. It was no fun (thanks for the lanyard for working) and I would rather take my chances while being in the boat.

Thats only cuz it is safe for Reggie, when you can't see over the windshield and the boat flips, your head is potected by the dash !!:D

Awesome !!!
 

Yep I Agree with you that I would rather stay in the boat than go flying into who knows what. The record of seat belts in autos for instance, does have some inc idents where the seatbelt itself was the direct or indirect cause of injury or even death...However in the vast majority of cases, the belts saved life and or serious injury ( or would have saved if used). I think these ratios would transfer to boating also. If you hit a solid object and the boat comes to a quick halt, you are going to hurt in or out of the boat! Belts might not make much difference in these cases. However, as most of the boating accidents where the crew gets tossed involved hitting a wake or submerged object or just plain centrifugal forces that delivers much less kinetic energy to your body. If you stay in the boat you have a good chance to recover control of the situation. If you hit the water, you have lost control of everything except if you can manage to loat on top of it.

Its no wonder people get hurt boating. Learning respect is usually a hard lesson. I wonder what the people who offer restraints pay for insurance on their products? Do the have some liability release? How many 100s a feet a second are you covering while you collect your self and try to regain control.
God Bless You and those around you.
Jim

In theory, this all sounds good, but have you ever gone over on a Hydro-Slide and have the velcro strap refuse to release? It's quite unnerving if you aren't ready for it. I, personally, don't care to be strapped to a boat period (unless I am in a capsule with an air supply). Yes, it hurts when you hit the water at 65mph. But, with the right PFD and your lanyards on, I still say your odds are much better being thrown clear of the boat. Do I have a book full of stats to back up my opinion? No, just enough personal experience from about 10 years of outboard racing to help me formulate a strong opinion on the subject.

Just my .02

of course everyone is entitled to an opinion on this subject and there are no laws I know of... so if you wanna take your chances in the boat or in the water - good luck. AND-- I nor any one else is advocating reckless behavior while piloting high speed watercraft - so don't go there! I have great respect for all the dangers involved in this sport as have been active in it for forty years now- I truly beleve that I and everyone else would be better off if they stayed in the boat after a indirect impact or centrifugal event than if they were to be tossed into the water-

I like it!
 

YEP! I have ordered the seatbelts from tiger. Gonna put em in every seat. Gonna use my kill switch and hang on tight. Ain't gonna go overboard by hittin a wake ! thanks for info. Do you use em?

I have been debating the same thing now for a few weeks. Take some pictures of your install.

Thanks
Don

will do! gonna post some pictures of my boat soon on the awesone site-

Reggie puts them in because they look "racer cool". This is a guy who targets his product to the "less experienced" boater and sells speed at any cost to these guys. Although I don't have any empirical evidence to back this, I do notice that his boats are the most often mentioned brand in roll-over incidents

I would take some breath-holding lessons.

Under 100mph, thrown-free is way better than trapped unconsious and submerged. Over 100 and without the protection of a canopy, it probably doesn't matter where they find your body, either floating or strapped in. Sort of like getting tossed from your crotch rocket at 140. The helmet just keeps the gray matter in one place.

Pretty good analogy.

You Don't Get It!
 

The few of us who think that staying with the boat is better than getting tossed are not thinking that when you stuff your boat and go underwater upside down or hit a concrete wall at 140MPH seat belts are gonna help! You are gonna get hurt if you hit something hard enough to come to a quick stop no matter what else happens after that . However, if you hit a wake or have a centrifugal event where the boat stays upright you are gonna be better off staying in it. In automobiles , there are times that the seatbelts caused major injury or even death as a result of some unusual circumstances. However, the vast majority of times they saved life. Therefore, the law stipulates that you must wear them. I don't want myself or a passenger thrown overboard if the boat is upright and seaworthy. I think the velcro seatbelts answer most of your concerns and are a good compromise which will make my boat safer. I put my money where my mouth is and bought the five person setup from tiger and will install them next week-

I realy do not understand this!
 

The" hard lesson of learning respect " statement you made implies unawareness of the risk and dangers involved in operating expensive powerboats. This is simply not true. It is the intent of this forum to examine the possibility of reducing the level of risk by use of seatbelts! If the driver is tossed overboard by hitting a wake like in the recent accident at LOTO, the " 100s a feet a second are you covering while you collect your self and try to regain control" part of your argument makes no since as that is precisely what would have prevented this potentially deadly accident! God Bless You Too!

I have previously posted why I would use lap belts in my boat. To be specific and name a real life experience, I was boating with my cat on a day of about 3-5 footers. Hit a good one and launched the boat pretty good. My girl friend has a petite body and does not fit that snug in the McLeod bolster. She shot straight up almost clearing the bolster. I grabbed her and pulled her back in the seat. A lap belt would keep her planted in the seat and hopefully not lying on the cockpit floor or hitting the dash on the rebound.

JBBeard, you seem to be taking this a little too personal. All we are doing here is stating our own opinions and reasons why we would, or wouldn't, choose to go with a restraint system in a boat. You feel strongly about your reasons in favor of, as do those of us that choose not to use a restraint system. We could list endless scenarios that would either prove them helpful or a hindrance, depending on how the individual situation unfolds. Why don't we just agree to disagree? I wish good luck to all of you that choose to install restraint systems. I sincerely hope they work as you intend them to. Personally, I will take my chances without.

Regards

And, BTW, I do "Get IT". You can't pick and choose what type of incident you're going to be involved in while "strapped in", whether it is a "centrifugal" incident, a blow-over or being hit by another boat, you just never know. Interesting side note, I notice the guys in this thread that are in favor of retraints seem to be cat owners in the 30 +/- foot range.

Good discussion in this thread. Looks like there are some serious pros and cons on both sides of the argument.

What about some kind of auto-release on a seatbelt, with the same type of fuse that's used in auto-inflating vests? It'll hold you in place during the impact, but if you're unconscious when the boat goes down, you'll come out.

Ok We Disagree!
 

Hey, if you look at a previous post, I said everyrone has the right to an opinion as to what is best for them. I am not taking this forum personally and am not on a seatbelt crusade. I just respond when i think someone has posted an infelicitous argument. no offense intended.

View this video and post your opinion on whether or not lap belts would have prevented injuries in this boating accident. Yes, there were injuries (serious) on this boat.
http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155180898

I think seatbelts would have saved some folks in that impact... but maybe the next one down the road would have caused him to roll...

Well after reading all this about the +,-'s and what happened to me this sunday, the belts are going to be going in my stinger fo sho, I will take the chance of the boat coming over. Me and my buddy was lets say exit stage right like rite now,thrown out, at 60+ this past sunday, what a great exp it was, but don't want it to happen again, I (we) are all very lucky to be here now, so I will take the chance on putting them in. to each is own, but thats the route I will be taking.

John

Wow!
 

Hey that driver was way over his ability to control his boat in that sea and shudda backed off! Seatbelts would have saved his passengers some pain. I recieved mine today from tiger preformance and hope I never need them but they are gonna be there for all passengers and crew to use. Thanks for a great example of what not to do in a fun boat!