Great thread............brings back alot of good memories when I did my restoration:ernaehrung004:

keep em comin

Ken

ktron
any luck finding lifeline?

Great Work! Like a clean sheet of paper!

I looked in my stash and didn't see it but I will take another look today. I do apologize for not getting back to you sooner.

I looked again for the lifeline but couldn't find it. I have a couple of the grab handles and original fuel fill if anyone wants them.

Nice project - I personally think that we should keep these boats as original as possible with the exception of engine/drive upgrade. I dont want mine looking like a LipShip edition - not saying that they are bad but they are in a class by themselves.

In a 1974 20' Cig that I am having restored, what is the Maximum hp I can put in the boat? I am thinking about an all aluminum small block 450cu. in 550hp. Will I be happy with this? I love speed!

I have a 700hp engine in mine, and the fastest one has over 800hp..... you've got room! :drink:

I guess the best way to go is with a all aluminum big block. I am concerned with the extra weight of a big block. The aluminum 550 hp small block should make this boat go 85-90? I am using 280S K-planes

85 or 90 is got to be pretty dangerous in a 20' boat.

Iv had the luxory of owning two of the fastest v's in their day. One held the record at 129, the other was radared at 115 off the bottle, but never got dialed in before money got tight. Both were 20', but also outboards

OY vey! Are you thinking of changing everything powerwise again on me? .. lol :D Just teasin. :party-smiley-004:

I think as I said from the get go a Big Hp SB will really fit nicely and allow it to handle even better.. I dont know about getting into the 90's with that power, but Im sure it will still fly. I always like to err on the conservative side.

If I had to take a guess I would think that mid 80s is a good guess given the low weight to power ratio with the LSM 550. Although It will be one of the first LSM 550's to get put in a cig 20, so it will be different from the mainstream. Which is cool on its own. Who knows it may even give more kick & speed than we are guessing..

I wouldnt however guess it to get you near triple digits. I would think you will need about 800hp to get there & some nads of steel.. :D lol Also Im not sure you would really want to run that fast all the time even if you could.. But I can understand the desire to know it can be done if you wanted too.. lol :) Jamie

What are you doing on here Jamie? - your suppose to be working on my boat!%$&!!$ :eek: hahahah - just kidding. I`ll probably go with the smallblock but just exploring my options. Can we get more hp out of that smallblock? - Bore it out to the max,port & polish the heads, blower etc. Also, if I can find a Blackhawk case should I buy it or go with the XR shortie with a speedmaster lower? I hear that the internals are still around for the Blackhawk. - Don

If you only knew Don... lol :D Actually I do both.. I aways watch all of the sites & I work all of the time.. Im a true workaholic.. lol :)

I will give you a shout to re-review thing with you and answer any new questions you may have. It's easier to review some of this by phone & I am not the quickest typer & I still have a ton of email to go thru and respond to yet... I also found something else that may interest you over the weekend.. :) Jamie

exactly, with the whipple, I will be close to 900, have fun with it, just set it up right.i know of some new stuff coming out in one of the originals. the only thing a small block does is reduce weight. BUT, that weight also helps keep the ass planted. It's a hydrodynamic trade off. HP vs weight, I would rather have the HP AND the weight,

Just put a FAT CHICK in the back seat :drink:

How much HP can the Black hawk Drive Handle

Rick OSG

I have an ILMOR V-10 625 going in mine. I wanted something a little different. The fit is going to be a little tricky with the firewall but can be done. It should run in the 90's and be very reliable. The block is aluminum as well so the motor all dressed with headers and fluids weighs about 800lbs.

I think we are all going to find out soon enough how much they can handle, fat chicks or not :drink:

My Big block :ernaehrung004:


Rick OSG

Now THATS ballast dude...carry on:evilb:

I would caution you against a small block, expecially if it is lightened with aluminum.

Cig 20's are heavy boats. My Cig 20 was heavier than my 24' Banana boat.

That being said, I feel the weight of a big block, would give you the best center of gravity and center of weight, both very important for stability.

One Cig 20 owner had a small block, lightened the engine up with mods and reported that the boat bow steered after.

Interesting point you brought up about planting the back end. I hate to spend all that money on that aluminum small block and the have steer funny etc. I hope Jamie at Lakeside read your last post

What about a aluminum big block?

if you when with the small block it would also give you the oportunity to add weigh to balance the boat
I am using a 500 HP so I will not have that issue

The only problem I have is it will only be 550-600 HP so I am way down power wise compared to these guys LOL

If using the smallblock - where would I add the extra weight? I think Raylar offers a 750 hp big block with aluminum heads. Thats plenty of hp for me...until someone beats me :eek:

The only bad thing about this restoration project is by the time I spend the $$$ and have this 20' restored, I can probably buy (2) "Top Guns" the way things are going economically.

that would be the question it appears a sbc versus bbc both cast iron is about 200 pounds different you could add that amount of weight in small increments to the bilge area if in fact you got the bow steering affect as someone noted

personally I think you are worrying about nothing, the boat will handle fine with either, they came that way(sbc and bbc) when they were made...so it's really a moot point.

MOOOOO

If you all would just send them to Phill at Lip-Ship he could figure it all out for you.

lol...look it up, you'll see my grammar is correct.

i know, its a joke from a "Friends" episode - you had to have been there, it was funny in my head :D

ding ding ding I think we have a winner

Dont worry, I am here..

Please pardon my little bit of post whoring coming up here.. :D

You are correct.

With the Raylar LSM 550 it is just about a wash in weight change from where he was originally by the time he is done, but he will have a lot more power!.

The boat originally had a SBC with a TRS in it.

Also He will be adding a hydraluic steering & K planes which it did not have before. SO he will be getting 2 plane pumps in the back and his battery(s) as well to help with keeping the balance proportioned nicely.

:) Jamie

You are correct.. & I dont see where 200 #'s difference in the boat is going to create that problem.. Reducing weight is usually a good thing, Besides It's not like there isnt going to be any weight back there. Also many are forgetting that you can remove from a stock Merc engine package about 100#'s alone just by changing out the cast iron exhaust to a SM aluminum set or Headers.. ;) Jamie

They do offer a big hp BBC on the 496 platform with aluminum heads.

That said though you will add over 100 pounds in the engine weight alone over the LSM 550 small block. You will also LOOSE close cooling and you will need a bigger / heavier drive over the bravo if you follow the manufactures recomendations. An IMCO SCX extreme unit or a Konrad Ace set up are recomended if my memory serves correctly. These will also add more weight & noticably more expense than the LSM 550 set up will cost..

I can do this, but you will have to decide if the extra pro's & con's are worth it to you.. :) Jamie

Just a tid bit or info on some current power & weights:

Info below is pulled from referencing Mercury's published/advertised current weights and Raylar's published/advertised current weights.. (these are not obviously shipping weights & weights listed are aproximates)..



350 Mag Mpi / Alpha 1 : with drive, cast iron exhaust, transom assembly, but no closed cooling.. 946 lbs
Engine only approximatley 670 lbs

350 Mag Mpi / Bravo 1 : with drive, cast iron exhaust, transom assembly, but no closed cooling.. 1044 lbs
Engine only approximatley 670 lbs

496 Mag HO / Bravo 1x : with drive, cast iron exhaust, transom assembly, closed cooling.. 1199 lbs
Engine only approximatley 880 lbs

525 Hp Efi / Bravo 1xr : with drive, SS Headers, transom assembly, closed cooling.. 1201 lbs
Engine only approximatley 882 lbs

Alpha drive 85 lbs
Bravo drive 125 lbs
Bravo standard Gimble housing assembly 120 lbs
Bravo inner transom plate assembly 20 lbs
Trim pump assembly approximately 16-20 lbs each
Plane pump assembly approximately 16-20 lbs each
Exhaust Y pipe assembly approximatley 25 lbs
Steering rack assembly approximatley 10 lbs

Raylar LSM 550 is about 543 lbs engine assembly with accessories.

Raylar 750HO is about 643 lbs without the accessories, probably about 8-900 lbs with accessories & trim.


......


That stuff said some other stuff popped into mind.

When people swap out the cast iron exhaust manifolds on standard merc power for headers or aluminum manifolds like Stainless marine it can reduce weight by about 75-120 lbs

The difference in weight between a Merc SBC engine with drive package and the Raylar lsm 550 with drive package is anywhere between approximatley 30lbs heavier & 160 lbs lighter depending on how it is equipped and set up..

The difference in weight between a Merc BBC engine with drive package and the Raylar lsm 550 with drive package is anywhere between approximatley 200-350 lbs lighter depending on how it is equipped and set up..

:) Jamie

The design is off of a bravo 1, so 5-600 depending on driver & conditions, however I am sure some people have put much more than that to them. ;) Jamie