I don't have a bias in either direction, and have only bought parts from Phil on occasion, but a quick look thru the classifieds here and other places for 99 or 00 Guns in "excellent" shape I see a low of about $100K up to $199K. There aren't that many for sale either. Of course, all of these are out of my range, but I do keep an eye on Cigs for sale as much as the next guy.

My point is some have said that Phil's boat is $50-$75K too high?? Double the value? These apparently are the same people that think 99.9% of every boat listed is too high and they are looking only for that distressed "steal" on a boat.

IMHO Phil's boat may be $25K higher than the norm, but I would seriously go down and look at it hard before I would pass on it if I were in the market, because I think it probably IS worth more than a non-Lip Ship.

And does anyone else know of an 80mph Gun with 500's that doesn't have a "F2" on the side?

It's a good question, and is completely answered on an individual basis.

Phil's shop & market identity in some ways could be compared to exotic car tuners that work directly with the factory. He takes it a step further on every project he takes on, to give his boats that extra edge. Whether it's a different pattern for the gauge cluster, a new seat design, a different cabin layout, or just a different material used on the interior parts, it's usually something new or unique, and not found on "every other boat". It clearly has been successful for him, or this question wouldn't come up so often.

Can an owner, or dealer, have Cigarette do whatever their mind can create? Absolutely. Usually however, they know what they like when they see it, not if they have to create it themselves. Painters & boat builders do more "copies" of other designs that their clients have seen, over new ideas. He also checks on your new boat at the factory constantly throughout the build since he's so close. If something isn't right, or needs a change, it can be done right away rather than when the owner finds out at delivery. Not all owners have the time, or location to check on their projects. It's the job of the dealer to keep the job going as planned.

He's always, I mean ALWAYS, is there for his customers, and his small crew of employees worked for Cigarette at different points of the past. They know everything about the construction of any Cigarette dating back decades, so there's no job they can't take on with your boat.

He's been there a LONG time....which is very important to me. He only deals with Cigarettes, and doesn't just drop the line, or pick up others when the market changes. He's completely interested in doing custom stuff to old or new boats, rather than just pushing you into what "everyone else is doing". He's literally "all about" Cigarette, and it's his true passion. It shows.

He won't sell a used or new boat without it being to his standard, and DEFINITELY not something that could come back to haunt him by misrepresenting the product. I"m sure there are FEW exceptions.

All of this is why I think it's worth it to pay more for a boat HE's selling or has always serviced, over one that "seems" to be similar, but less money. I do not apply this to boats he's built, but have had various owners and service history since.

I think Wild's boat was bought from and built by Phil (and the first owner) and I know T-N-T has done all the service on it before he bought it and the first owner even sent it to Lake X to be dialed in when it was new......so that being said I would go for the TS.

Tres Martin rigged it, but yes, TNT did most of the work for Alexander. The boat is definatley priced right...I just think the no paint and history is holding it back from selling. Great boat though as I said...we ran against Alexander a lot when we had our F-2 T/S.

[QUOTE=pm203;2790033]
Right On!!!:ernaehrung004:

If you were logical , I think you would probably lean towards Wild's boat since it is newer and a twin-step. However, buying a Cig is not a logical decision, it's an emotional decision. And you could talk yourself into going either way. I know that I could. However, my decision would have to be the 2000. It has gorgeous paint, complete new cockpit and cabin, new power and drives and needs absolutely nothing! Its practically a new boat. Plus, it looks a 2009, will hit 80 mph all day long, and can turn on a dime. And, since it is based on emotion, if the 2 boats were side by side, I would have to pick the one that is closest to pure sex, and that would have to be the 2000. It has the lust factor, plain and simple :D

If I add to pick I would go for Wild's TS 90mph+, don't think 75mph would do much for me but it is a beautiful boat.

Your right, I would lean towards Wild's boat, but that is based on alot of factors, but by you saying that you would choose Phils boat first just shows that that are buyers out there for a "new" turn key beautiful boat and the bottom or speed is not as important as the style and looks of the boat. There is a buyer for all boats, Just pricing is the only factor !

Thats my biggest factor, I got sick of running 80 wide open to keep up, and I wasnt even keeping up. Although I did throw my ex girlfriend off and picked up 3 MPH :evilb:

and I bet a pocket full of cash too.