Bottom Wedge...
03-15-2012 | 09:32 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Registered
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 595
Likes: 103
From: Ontario
Are you serious? Phils been racing boats since he was a teenager. Guy holds American and international championships and has been "tweaking" cigarettes to get the top MPH for the better part of his life oh, and he still works with cigarette on changes to the overal design, the bottom, the deck etc.
"salesman"? Yes. But if that's all you know of him then you don't know much. Sure, you hear about the large dollar sales he makes on new cigs all the time but these pale in comparisson to all the "offline" deals he does putting people into their dream boats. Wont talk to you unless you spend 200k? Really? I paid 85k for my gun through him, he helped me on financing and became a very good friend. Me and my wife have had countless meals with him, stayed at his house and have been invoted on poker runs with him. But yea, he only caters to the high end customers!
One of, if not thee most knowledgable people in the industry when it comes to Cigarette and the only person that I know of in the industry that has dedicated his life to cigarette.
I'm not trying to start a Phil vs tres argument. Tres is great in his own right and if he says he can do the work and you respect him so highly why are you on here second guessing what he told you?
Knowing Phil the way I do, you asked Phil about screwing with the chines in order to get a few mph. Instead of being a "salesman" and seeing dollar signs telling you to bring it down and start throwing money at it, it sounds to me like he gave you some sound advise. Which was basically, if you're looking to keep pushing a hull that has met its limits why not sell the boat and get into a used twin step that will run those speeds with virtually stock HP?
Don't dog the guy because he gave you his honest assessment just because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. And definately don't disrespect the guys knowledge and heritage. I those are pretty clear from the vast majority of people in the industry and customers alike that respect him. But there's always haters out there. Go figure.
"salesman"? Yes. But if that's all you know of him then you don't know much. Sure, you hear about the large dollar sales he makes on new cigs all the time but these pale in comparisson to all the "offline" deals he does putting people into their dream boats. Wont talk to you unless you spend 200k? Really? I paid 85k for my gun through him, he helped me on financing and became a very good friend. Me and my wife have had countless meals with him, stayed at his house and have been invoted on poker runs with him. But yea, he only caters to the high end customers!
One of, if not thee most knowledgable people in the industry when it comes to Cigarette and the only person that I know of in the industry that has dedicated his life to cigarette.
I'm not trying to start a Phil vs tres argument. Tres is great in his own right and if he says he can do the work and you respect him so highly why are you on here second guessing what he told you?
Knowing Phil the way I do, you asked Phil about screwing with the chines in order to get a few mph. Instead of being a "salesman" and seeing dollar signs telling you to bring it down and start throwing money at it, it sounds to me like he gave you some sound advise. Which was basically, if you're looking to keep pushing a hull that has met its limits why not sell the boat and get into a used twin step that will run those speeds with virtually stock HP?
Don't dog the guy because he gave you his honest assessment just because it wasn't what you wanted to hear. And definately don't disrespect the guys knowledge and heritage. I those are pretty clear from the vast majority of people in the industry and customers alike that respect him. But there's always haters out there. Go figure.
03-15-2012 | 10:23 PM
#23
Registered
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,569
Likes: 4,534
From: Channel Islands, So. Cal.
Either way, I understand your desire to tinker and push your boat further and I respect that. I agree with Darren and think if Tres can Gaurantee 3-5 mph for 3-5 k. Seems to be a no brainier. Look forward to the project.
On a side note (and on topic) I take it you're already turning the props in? I would also think that the stand off boxes are actually slowing you down with the V's considering the push the drive down further thus causing more drag.
Last edited by thisistank; 03-15-2012 at 10:28 PM.
03-16-2012 | 06:32 AM
#24
VIP Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,314
Likes: 1,556
From: Maryland
i have gotten advice from both Phil and Tres, both have been very helpful and gracious with their knowledge. As for your boat, one of the things you have to look at is they all come from the same molds, some run great some dont, that makes one realize that if they are all from the same mold, the only difference would be power and setup. It would make more sense to me to start the changes there and maximize what you can in increments. I dont think any straight bottom would be hurt by having the bottom blueprinted, however I think your issues could more than likely be taken care of with spacing and moving drives and props. just my .02 cents
03-16-2012 | 09:39 AM
#26
Registered
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,474
Likes: 358
From: Mansfield, TX
I think phil gave some good advise, but don't blame you for not wanting to buy another boat.
I think you should consider playing with weight distribution via sandbags before modifying the hull. If you can get under the cockpit floor put some sandbags in and experiment with weight distribution. Try moving weight infront of the engine bulkhead, then maybe under the drive seat, then maybe the cabin, etc. Modifying the hull should be absolute last resort. Look at how these apache's are running with forward tanks, floor tanks, and saddle tanks. In rough water you have to know how to keep that weight distributed just right. It doesn't take much. My boat is so carefully balanced that changing from cast iron to aluminum heads altered the ride negatively.
I think you should consider playing with weight distribution via sandbags before modifying the hull. If you can get under the cockpit floor put some sandbags in and experiment with weight distribution. Try moving weight infront of the engine bulkhead, then maybe under the drive seat, then maybe the cabin, etc. Modifying the hull should be absolute last resort. Look at how these apache's are running with forward tanks, floor tanks, and saddle tanks. In rough water you have to know how to keep that weight distributed just right. It doesn't take much. My boat is so carefully balanced that changing from cast iron to aluminum heads altered the ride negatively.
03-16-2012 | 10:05 AM
#27
Registered
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 32
From: Racine, Wisconsin
I think phil gave some good advise, but don't blame you for not wanting to buy another boat.
I think you should consider playing with weight distribution via sandbags before modifying the hull. If you can get under the cockpit floor put some sandbags in and experiment with weight distribution. Try moving weight infront of the engine bulkhead, then maybe under the drive seat, then maybe the cabin, etc. Modifying the hull should be absolute last resort. Look at how these apache's are running with forward tanks, floor tanks, and saddle tanks. In rough water you have to know how to keep that weight distributed just right. It doesn't take much. My boat is so carefully balanced that changing from cast iron to aluminum heads altered the ride negatively.
I think you should consider playing with weight distribution via sandbags before modifying the hull. If you can get under the cockpit floor put some sandbags in and experiment with weight distribution. Try moving weight infront of the engine bulkhead, then maybe under the drive seat, then maybe the cabin, etc. Modifying the hull should be absolute last resort. Look at how these apache's are running with forward tanks, floor tanks, and saddle tanks. In rough water you have to know how to keep that weight distributed just right. It doesn't take much. My boat is so carefully balanced that changing from cast iron to aluminum heads altered the ride negatively.
03-16-2012 | 01:40 PM
#28
Registered
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,474
Likes: 358
From: Mansfield, TX
Nope. Still running 3 blade mirage props. Props could of helped my problem, but the motor blew first so I just went back to cast iron heads, which fixed the problem. I bought the boat with aluminum heads and changed back to cast iron in the repower.
Last edited by TexomaPowerboater; 03-16-2012 at 01:45 PM.
