No honour for OSO brothers I guess...fw all things happen for a reason...I hope you find the CIG you are looking for...its out there

I don't know any of the parties involved and taking everything at face value, my opnion is that the seller is really the culprit here. A deposit is more than just a goodwill gesture; it should "hold" the boat until the buyer decides to proceed or not and should have given FW the right of first refusal; why else take a deposit. Although by his own admission, duramax said he backed away the first time and then went back, so who knows...

This site is great, there are a lot of great guys on it and I've learned a TON from being part of this community. The one piece of advice I'd give is this. It's great to get opinions in public about things you are considering and picking the collective brains of some very knowledgeable people here, but when it comes to buying a specific boat and you've found "the one", it's in your best interests not to publicize it until you close the deal. While there are a ton of boats for sale, really good ones are harder to come by and anyone who's seriously in the market might make a play for it and there's a good chance it's going to be another member here..remember the old adage... "loose lips sink ships"...

Full Whack, you should probably consider yourself lucky you didn't get this boat and I sincerely hope you get your money back because if you don't that turns this saga from just poor business practice to theft. Hate to hear about this stuff.. good luck with the search..

Seller has boat for sale

Takes a non refundable deposit from buyer 1

Tells buyer 1 the hull is sound because it is a freshwater boat

Buyer 2 shows up with cash and is told seller doesn't want to deal with buyer 1 cause he wants a survey done on it ( things that make you go hmmmm)

Pissing match occurs, buyer 2 goes home with empty hitch

Buyer 2 drives back the 6 hrs a couple days later and makes it work out ($$$$$???), pays cash, goes home with new purchase

Buyer 2 gets boat home and crawls around in it, then out of goodness of his heart, offers to sell it to buyer 1

Seller says the non refundable check is in the mail to buyer 1

Buyer 1 says no check yet (has enough time been given.)


Is that about it in a nut shell? Just putting the time line in order here going by posts given by both buyers

I think I've seen more flags raised at the Winter Olympics, but that's about only place.
You may have dodged a bullet here FW. Is your deposit check one that you could do a stop payment on?

That about sums it up US1.. I don't want the boat anymore, the deposit was made with a credit card, and having been over a week I'm sure it's too late.. They sent the check out Monday, supposedly and said I should have it next day (Tuesday).. As of 11pm last night, nothing had shown up for me. I'll be in touch with the marina tomorrow if I don't receive anything today.. Thanks for all the kind words and support, unfortunately that's the top of my budget and I was going to go through the boat in stages over the course of several years.. I'm looking for
Something to keep, not something to turn a profit on.. Rather than have to finance in the future, I may wait another year and have the cash up front so I don't have to risk losing out on something while I wait.. I found a 35 formula in Connecticut for 18k in similar condition, but I've always wanted a cigarette, it's a bucket list item for me.. If I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it once and get something I really want. I'll keep an open eye and hopefully with some good karma I'll end up with exactly it is that I want.. I'll keep you guys posted with the outcome either way, just ready for this week to be over, the beers I drink tomorrow will be a lot cheaper than the diesel I'd be buying to go to to Long Island anyway! Cheers..

Justin

Good luck Justin. If you really want a cig don't settle. You'll hate it. I really want a fountain and am holding out till I get the right one. Dmax knew about the deposit from an Oso member as he had posted in this thread, so he is just as shady as the seller in my opinion when it comes to the board. Had this never been brought up and no clue of this then bought it is a different story. He wants to show us all that he is Reggie fountain/don aronow/Eddie young/McLeod/Mitcher T all in one.

I have lost all respect for him doing this to another Oso member.

I asked this in the other thread but does anyone know the glass shop he works at? Be interesting to know who is training him.

I found this picture from his shop they use the most advanced vacuum bag technology. :bunnydance:

[IMG]http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3547d0c2.jpg[/IMG]

I would say its a blessing in disguise.

Obviously the seller wanted to dump the boat, as quickly as possible for whatever reason. You wanted to investigate further, buyer number 2 had in cash in hand and wanted to pull it away immediately. Seller knew it probably wouldn't pass a survey and took the easy money. Consider yourself lucky.

The deposit being taken with a credit card is good news. If you do not get your $$ back, dispute it with your credit card company.

If the deposit was with a credit card, it's never too late. You should notify your credit card company ASAP that there might be a dispute. You don't have to file the dispute, but you should notify them anyway. As for the boat, don't settle. If you want a Cig, then wait to find the one you want and can afford or it will haunt you; it's like thinking you should have married the other girl...

Considering he states there is no difference between marine and regular plywood is enough to know this will be a hack job of some sort... poor Cig gonna get ruined....

LOL, like I said, in applicational purposes like transom repair, floors, etc, there is no difference if you use marine ply or reg ply. We've been doing it for years and most boat builders will tell you the same. At least most all the ones I've met

Who's we? Who did you work for to "learn" all this

There is a huge difference in marine ply and reg ply...most importantly the glue used in the bonding process of the layers...put both types in water for a few days and see what happens

"You can B.S. some of the people some of the time but you'll never B.S. all of the people all of the time. "
unknown

Sorry you lost out on buying the boat,,,it sucks how sometimes things work out but at the end it all happens for a reason,,,

I know I will get $hit for this but,,,,I do not think we should be blaming 315duramax,,,did he really do anything wrong? the boat was for sale and he bought it,,
I put blame on the Marina for selling a boat they had a deposit on,,,,
with that been said,,,it does not sound like the deal was handled correctly from the start,,,why put a non refundable deposit on a boat and then try to arrange inspection??if the inspector came back to you and told you the boat needed 30k in repairs you would more than likely walked away from it and lost your deposit or called your credit card and disputed charges,,,
I think you should have paid for the boat in full and worried about conditioned once you had boat in your possesion or inspected boat before deposit was made,,,
Not sure it was clear to the Marina that the deal was 100% done since you still wanted boat surveyed,,,

sorry do not want to upset anyone but ask yourself,,,you got one guy with money ready to take boat of your lot, so do you sale it to him or wait for the other guy to have boat inspected 1st,,,

I know it suck but you learn and move on,,,been there done that,,,

one of the lessons I learned long ago is,,never start a thread about a boat you want to buy before its actually yours.....


I am sure your upset now but I think you will find a boat you could be happy with

Which is why it was probably offered to fullwhack by dmax after he got it home and took a good look at it lol

The FB version is real fun !!!

hes a 19 year old genius!!! nobody else knows anything...

yes but once encapsulated in glass the structure properties are no difference.. thats what i was saying.

that is all.

There's a fb version also?! What's the name I can search? Feeling left out!

315duramax who ever told you there is no difference between reg ply and marine ply especially in a transom repair doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground . You obviously do not understand the structural differences between the two products . The up side you fore warned the potential buyers on the site the your product will be sub par and not worth the money. If you are not prepared to do it right don't bother doing it at all .
Just my 2 cents

what do you know about that stuff?? i mean you only successfully put a notch in a 1985 flatdeck... Dmax remember its never too late to learn something new.
Rick i didnt forget about your poster just been running around like crazy with the holidays and the wedding and work has been a disaster

i do everything correct. not even sure where the wood debate came from either because this boat is sound and dry with no signs of rot anywhere.. so there isnt any need for coring or stringers or transom in this boat. and the shop i work at taught me that, along with other people who do the same. my job warrantee's everything so if regular ply was so God aweful im not sure how they would be in business because we have done 3 transoms in the past month. Along with never having a customer come back to fix it.. my 2 cents.

I don't understand why you don't let us know the name of your (the) shop? Seem if you want to show it off it wouldn't be a secret.

no it is not my shop where i work at. i own a landscape company in the on season and work at a boat glass shop on the off season to keep me occupied between school and not landscaping. and honestly, because i dont want any negativity going towards the shop. its not their problem trying to convince any one of you one way or the other.. people who know what they are doing know the way to do it. and as long as no water intrusion is exposed to normal ply and it is sealed in glass, the ply WILL last just as long as marine. the people who dont, are tough over the computer and google before they post.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.s...fs_patrol.html

this is one of the funniest articles ive read in a long time

Thanks 88bullet no worries no rush what ever is good for you . I will post some more pics in my thread , bilge is painted and starboard gimbal installed . Hope to see you on lake O this summer .

315duramax let's just agree that your idea of doing things correctly and mine are different .

Rick G.

Great post! Unfortunate circumstances but true. Assuming 315duramax truly did not find the add via this thread, the seller is the one that should be flamed.

FullWhack - something better will come along, season is still early. Good Luck!

315duramax - wish you the best with your Café, they are great boats!! I would suggest you move past this thread as I doubt you are going to change anyone's mind about your boat purchase or your future plans for the boat. Good Luck!

Chad

Why doesn't marina just credit back the credit card if they took the deposit on a card. Isn't that then norm? Just sayin

Oh yes.. there's a whole thread very similar to this one going on in the Powerboat Swap Shop group... This thread is like driving by a bad car wreck; you know there's gonna be crap everywhere, but you just can't help stopping to look.. :poopoo:

He messes up Jet ski builds too.... right 315 rider???

Some clarification, dmax went Saturday to try and buy the boat but the salesman said no it's got a deposit on it, that's when dmax got back on here calling the guy a prick.. The owner of the marina was skeptical of a survey and when dmax showed back up Monday with a printed copy of this thread to try and convince the owner I might flake, the owner finally gave in because he didn't want to winterized it a second time.. Salesman actually seems like a straight shooter, it's the owner that let the deal fall out of my hands..

I wouldn't change a thing on how I went about this purchase, I've been burned enough buying things without researching them.. I'm not going to fork out 20k and hope the boat isn't some of Japanese tsunami remnants and deal with the consequences then.. When a dealer sends me a copy of the invoice in my name with a deposit and says congratulations on your first Cigarette, it seems like you can trust that they'll give you at the very least a chance to come get it first.. I never had the option, and just want to make that known.

Thats a fukked up way of doing buisness, if you had paperwork then you have reason to bash away...

Wow, if that's true, that's really not cool on either of their parts.. You did the right thing here. You asked for help on how to protect yourself. Several of us recommended getting a survey.. If that scares the seller; that's the biggest red flag there is. There were a few posters on the FB page that claimed that boat sank... I have no idea if that's true or not, but if it is, there's reason #1 why they didn't want you to survey the boat. If I were you, I'd be counting my lucky stars that this deal fell through... There's so much about this thing that smells bad, I think you really are the winner here...

Pbss where the boat was posted for sale immediately after it was bought. Lol

For a little tid bit that seems to be of topic here.....Yes, there is a big difference between marine and regular plywood. But, if you search a little here, you'll see plenty, and maybe even a pro, don't always use marine ply when replacing transoms. Not the cheap knotty stuff, but the higher grade with more plys, such as the accuply (sp?) And none of that exterior ply either. As long as it's sealed, you'd be good to go, according to most, and the pros too, water seeping in is what rots the wood, not the type of wood. Carry on :)

Ahh are you the guy that sucked me into the plywood thing?

US1 most might agree that regular ply would be adequate and assuming that none of the 30 to 40 holes you are going to drill into your transom are going to leak . It only takes one badly sealed hole to ruin a transom . True marine ply is usually more plys and assembled with waterproof glue so that should a hole leak there is less chance the water will migrate throughout the structure as quickly or completely as it would in reg ply . Better material done properly usually equals better result .
Again just my opinion.
RG.

Marine ply the good stuff has two more layers then cdx or ac for that matter also has less voids between layers....quarter in max on any voids.....cdx is yellow pine....ac has fur on outside layers and marine ply usually mohogiany on outside ....good marine ply 3/4 cost about 150a sheet where ac costs about 45...I would never do a repair with anything less then marine ply

Man O Man, just read this this morning I am on the fence a little bit about this one, I almost get a tear in my eye for FW as I can understand the pain you are in right now, but experience has taught me one thing, this is probably going to end up better for you in the long run that's for sure.

As for the parties involved in this, dealer is shady not how business should be done, I would not do business with anyone like that. What I think he should have done was called you, told you he had someone hot to buy and gave you a couple days to come up with the cash or move on, sounds to me like a desperate dealer low on funds needed the dough fast.

As for Duradude well his actions pretty much sum him up.

Now as far as the boat goes, if I were you I would not lose any sleep over this one. If you start adding up what this one needs in repairs from what I can gather you could most likely buy a loved well taken care of turn key Cigarette with a minimal boat payment that will keep you happy for years to come. You know nothing about these engines or drives with a dealer like this you have no idea what this boat needs.

I have redone a couple boats in my time, they start out as small projects and then poof $30K later your like WTF happened....Here is an example I redid a Supra ski boat last year for my kids thought I was going to put like 3k-5k in boat almost 9k later boat is almost done!!!.I am sure there is many OSO member's who can tell you there small fixer upper jobs that put them in the poor house.

Now as far as deals go, I just bought OSO member Sean's OLD 1987 Café Racer he sold it 2-3 years ago something like that not sure exactly, if you follow this boat on OSO you will find Sean loved this Café redid boat updated engines and drives to the tune of $70,000.00 then sold. It is not in the condition Sean sold it in, but it will be, I will be redoing interior and getting her all shinned up again. I paid $35,000.00 for this Café..........

So the one you were looking at $19,000.00 may seem like a great deal, but was it really? Probably not after all repairs are done.

These old boats as neat as they are just do not bring the cash they used to.

You will find the right boat just keep looking