Fastest currently or ever? I think the spider boat was fastest ever, old school was the fastest side by side when it had 1200's in it @ 112.

The spider boat did 117mph.

The screw compressor 8.3 whipple takes much less crankshaft hp to turn than a 8 or 10- 71, to make the same boost. That's why all big air compressors are Screw type. So if a 8-71 takes 300 crankshaft hp to turn 5000 rpm, and engine output is 900 hp, the engine is really making 1200 before the parasitic loss. The 8.3 uses less than 150 hp to turn the same boost out, thus the gains. That why turbos are so great, no parasitic loss. Ever wonder why blower belts are so big? It takes a lot of power to turn them. The new Chiefs are 588 ci, 9 psi boost, inter cooled , 1143 hp on Chief Dyno. And they idle very well.

So for argument, a whipple probably makes higher AVERAGE HP than a roots? IE: 1143hp roots vs. 1143hp whipple, the whipple should accelerate faster and probably top out at a higher top speed, everything else being equal.... ?

^^ let`s not discount the Roots blower, does it "beat up' the air creating more heat ... sure. Does it take 150hp to turn it? No way. ( 50-100hp depending on boost) An 8000hp funny car with an 14-71 pushing 54 PSI takes 600 hp to turn the blower , thats 8%. That means a 900hp engine eats 72hp to turn the blower but we`re not pushing 54PSI either so I`d guess it`s around 50hp @ 7psi.

Check out the chart:
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...ml#post4412506

Is the Whipple a better supercharger... sure. Is it night and day, I have yet to see that proof but if you have no budget why not.

Stick a couple carbs on top of a roots and your highest intake air temp will be no more than 150* Add an intercooler on a hose (way less pressure and water flow then in boat) and that temps drops another 30* and adds about 25 hp)
So with an intercooled roots you`re at 120* intake , less in the boat. (70*day)

How much less heat can a Whipple make, I`m not sure nobody seems to ever put intake air temp gauges on them.

Unless I`m missing something heat and parasitic loss are the 2 main advantages to a Whipple, besides the bypass for a smooth idle.

On a 70* it`s not going to be ambient, I`d say 100*? so as additional 20hp over a Roots? Add in some parasitic loss gained (questionable under 10psi) and I`d guess a Whipple is worth 50, 60 hp.

Bang for buck that`s is some expensive HP.

Jesus Dan I'm a CPA and I had read that twice just to check the math .
But why hasn't any one dealt with the effect of the franistan and whether how it is connected affects center of gravity .
RG.

There you go again defending that 80's technology lol. SCREW thats why it makes the power and no teflon strips.

I can point you to a 7,000 rpm drag car that picked up 10mph just by switching from the roots to the whipple. There is no comparison Basically went from 9 second et's to 8's

I have some data from when they were testing a 6-71 GMC supercharger, back in the 60's.

To turn a 6-71 Blower, at 5000RPM, with a discharge pressure of 6psi, it required around 25 BHP. At 8psi=30hp, 10psi=35HP. 22PSI =70HP. As you can see, the power required to turn, goes up substantially as boost increases, as well as blower speed. Those guys running 60lbs of boost, spinning the chit out of a roots, heck yea they are taking some big power to drive. A 1:1 ratio, 6-8psi pump gas deal, its not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Certainly a screw is more efficient in that area, without a doubt, and they really are in the big boost stuff as well, where PSI's main market is.

In a separate test, a mini 144 B&M was tested. At 5000 ENGINE rpm, (not blower rpm) on a small block chevy, HP losses to drive the supercharger, was 30hp, with a temperature rise of 90 degrees over ambient. So, on a 90 degree day, that combo was 180*degrees in the intake on that combo.

Icdedppl's 540, made 900HP with a 10-71 making 8psi of boost. If you were to take an engine, that made 500HP N/A, and gave it 14.7psi, it would make 1000HP sans any parasitic, or other efficiency losses. IF his 10-71 blower, was consuming 300HP to turn, that would mean he's actually making 1200HP at the crank, with no losses. To make 1200HP with 8lbs and no losses, that would mean his 540ci, is making around 800HP on engine alone. I think BDS, Blowershop, Hampton, Littlefield, and many others, would be out of business, if by bolting on one of their products, only gained 100HP over a N/A combo.

Now, if we assumed his 540 was making around 625HP on motor, adding 8psi, would net 965HP without any losses. That sounds alot more reasonable to me, and coincides with the testing done on the 6-71 Compressor back when they were becoming popular.

Heresay like this is exactly why these bar talk misconception exist.

I had someone tell me a 100 hp increase, turns out they forgot to mention the CNC head change at the same time.

YOu better sharpen your pencil with Joes post :D

How about the stories of,

"if you don't run an intercooler, your manifold temps will be 200+ degrees with a roots''

"if you go from 6psi to 8psi, the temps will go higher with a roots"

Your air temp has been a steady what, 140* in the intake non intercooled, at both 6psi and 8psi at wot? Is the air temp actually hotter at cruise, than at wot?

On the dyno with a 522 and 10-71 combo, with a chiller, at 6psi, 8psi, and 10psi, the manifold temps barely changed if any. Although from 6psi, to 10psi, the power jumped over 120HP.

I will say though, hands down, the Whipple 510 is a bad azz piece, and I would take them anyday over a comparable roots, sans the cost difference. They will make more power, the idle bypass system works awesome, and they look fricken cool as hell. Plus, the conversion to install them in place of a GMC style roots, is pretty simple. on the dyno, we held the bypass closed on a 588ci with that blower, pretty good cam, some 1050 carbs. With the bypass closed, the engine surged like a roots at idle. AS soon as the valve was released, smooth as butter.

And that power Zero Patience made with them, is dam good! I was on the phone with a friend on saturday, who built a very similar combo, and his power was right there with ZP's, as was the boost level as well.

I was told I was running at least 225* by an intercooler salesman.
Haven`t seen it ever go over 150* ,in boat, the more fuel that goes down those carbs the cooler the charge no matter the boost.
I prefer to test things for myself, too many wives tales out there,

I'm done arguing with you meatheads. If you knew half of what you claim you would have the baddest engine shop on the planet.


http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...psmnngrfjj.png


Back to the thread BADASS engines Lock & Load!!! How much did your cruise speed pick up?

Forgive me if I'm not impressed I made 975hp with smaller blowers, smaller cams and less boost... I think I will stick with my engine guy....

I thought this was kind of interesting

The roots combo also had Dart 360's, the whipple combo had Dart 355 CNC pro 1's if im not mistaken. The the Dart 355's stomp the 360's in airflow, unless the 360's are heavily ported, which they were not.

If I remember right, Mike had an old 572ci , Dart 360 headed, 16-71 roots combo on the floor of his shop, he was going to sell. He wanted to dyno it prior to listing it for sale. It made just over 1000HP, maybe 1050ish.

His 8.3L whippled engines, are 588ci, Dart 355 CNC pro 1', and made 1205hp with around 12-13lbs of boost. I do not recall the boost the 16-71 was making, but I believe it was close.

He did not remove the roots, and bolt the whipple in place, and do a dyno pull. two separate engines, two separate dyno sessions.

4-5lbs more boost with the same pulley ratio he says

Oh geez MMB getting all butthurt, can`t have a discussion with facts, real numbers and experience it`s all about my brothers sisters boyfriend, cousins friend told me he went a full second faster with a Whipple. :rolleyes:

ok good talk buddy.

sounds like its easier to turn to me!!

Can`t even get your own numbers straight.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/c...ml#post3935639

CNC Aluminum heads, intercooled vs, Iron heads non intercooled and 7.5:1 compression. Not so apples to apples

What was your experience with the whipple again?????? Come in here and tell people its not money spent very well???? Your an asshat.

lol would you like to see my 6500rpm dyno sheets?

Let me see if my brothers sister can print them for me :p

The cruise stayed the same, because the reason for the rebuild, new super chargers, etc was the new props on the Sixes were to big. It was decided to keep the props and add power, to make the props "right".

It worked.��

Impressive improvement guys. 700+ RPM gain with 34 pitch props, nice. That's around a 14 mph gain on a 90 mph ( no pun intended) straight gun. And that boat weighs a ton. Hats off.

I was just trying to have a little tech discussion as I think the Whipple is the way to go and I~d love to see some back to back results with it that`s all. Love that boat!

Love that boat is right.....

What fuel was used on the dyno pulls ZP

That's a funny "small er" cam that keeps pulling past 6500. The 651 only gains 18hp past past 6000. It's done at the rpm that I run at.. At least that's one thing that was right in these Choo Choo cluster **** motors

My cam is a little smaller on duration, little larger on the lift. Could be several things keeping the engine from making power, unstable valve train, heads starting to go sonic, not enough carb. Doesn't always have to be the cam. But yes mine made power all the way to 6500.

Based on the past several years, I think it's pretty much common knowledge by now that a Whipple has the advantage over a Roots---it looks to have proven itself.

I know that when my builder had finished a long run on his dyno with a hard pull at the end that you could lay your hand on the blower case of a customer's Whipple and it would be cold to the touch. The Air Intake Temps are much cooler with a Whipple....that's at least one advantage of the Whipple vs a Roots.

That's some monster diameter u boys are runnin at 17.5. Keep the update posts coming, great project/thread and has been a joy to follow since the start. Any porpoise issues with that diameter over 90mph? I had 17" diameter on last summer on Old School and at 5400 was turning 97 on gps and had to go down in diameter or she wanted to literally jump out of the water so no way to open it up to 61-6200rpm safely...long way to go yet, needless to say, props redone this winter and waiting to try again when the pond thaws out. :cool:

What rake angle are you running?

I don't remember....seems so long ago (last summer). BBlades boys fixed them up so we'll see what happens this summer when they get bolted on...don't want to high-jack and will get another thread going later.

I had 17.75 x 32 by BBlades on my straight bottom gun before I sold it, of course they were only 4 blades. You are definately making some power. Can't wait to hear the results. I was making somewhere near 900 HP at 5500. Boat ran 97 GPS with x dimension to the moon.

Kvogt liking this.. that`s rich!

We both run 15 rake, the fuel was and is 93 unleaded, ethanol. Pump gas. We will put the video up of the Dyno . On our run last Friday the whipples were wet with condensation, and cold to the touch.

Zero,

Are there any advantages when running the whipples in relation to octane ratings? I would assume that detonation has more to do with the cylinder head design and hotspots inside the engine/combustion chamber/ cylinder (also a relation to intake temps).?

I.E. - "I can safely make 50 more hp at the same octane rating, compression ratio, # of static boost with the Whipples". Or maybe is it that they are just more efficient therefore yielding a better average horsepower under the curve, and possibly a higher peak. Or can you actually run additional/more boost everything else being equal. Does my question make sense?

(I may have answered my own dumb question....)

You put new engines in?? Or are those N/A motors running that strong?