I agree with this, I prefer older layup and I am MORE then happy with my SSM equipped gun, you can find some real nice flat decks and some older guns for 70-100,000 less and still have a lot of reliable fun, now if you want modern power and styles, the T/S is the way, I am not that into "modern boats" myself, I prefer classics. the ride between and SSM flat deck/Gun and a 525 Bravo T/S is not even close to the same,

I love that boat, I almost grabbed it way back when with no power.... such a nice ride.no expense spared.

Being as you're in ohio...I saw a white one with green and gold on it on boat trader I think...I'll try to get a link to it..know anything about it?? I realize ohio is a big state but figured I'd ask lol

https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1...ource=standard listing

this one...its even in Marblehead

https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1...ource=standard listing

or even better this one...6's, power, nice trailer....hmmmmm

nevermind...this is the one with the silly lease to own terms...F that!!!

avg rule of thumb is most people list at 20-25% more than what they want. in the car industry where used cars sell way faster than new, and depending on what needs to be done to a car to sell it inspected or ready for inspection the margins are much thinner so they need to push volume, unless a dealer has someone that really wants an item on their lot and they can undervalue a trade most used cars are 3-5k in profit, if that at times. then the longer it sits its on a floor plan so it costs money daily. now when it comes to boats they only need to pass a general survey, it rare when you are going to be 100% in love with a boat, there will always be something you want to change or upgrade. there is nothing wrong with looking at a boat that you know is overpriced and saying you understand why it is priced as such, however thats more than you want to pay for it, if they really want to move it they will ask what you were thinking, offer less than where you want to be so you can move up if needed. it called a negotiation. if anyone gets upset they lose out.. I wont throw out a low ball number, that's just a dick/insulting move,

No I get that...and like I said I would never throw out a crazy low offer like I was talking about earlier in the thread...it was just an example of where do you start on something like this...that's why I'm not good at negotiating because I see a price and I'm like well it's probably not worth all that and I never even call to talk about it haha...trust me I would never try insulting someone that has something I want!!

Thanks for the info!! some good info to think about

https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1...ource=standard listing

Really like the all white of this one...however the POP yachts scares me as I've read nothing but bad about them

Was looking at both tigers and the OL...the OL is in Canada so I think that's out right away...seems like a headache to get one across the border and I would have to get on a tiger and make sure the cockpit and layout are useable for me...never even seen one much less been on one lol

Didn't things change in that regard this year? I thought there was a thread here about import/export stuff changing? Without throwing this thread back into politics lol I thought some embargo something changed?? Not up on all that stuff just remember hearing something about it.

If you don't mind me asking...what was the added cost of the transfer?? And are you responsible to pick it up at the border?? thanks

Oh really?? Sh!t that's not bad at all...I was expecting like several thousand dollars lol...got me thinking now!! may have to call Double R tomorrow thanks!!

I would just need to find someone trustworthy up there to check things out or get a passport and go myself hahaha

i just went through this whole exercise for the past year. I was trying to buy an 05' TS but the banks just weren't on board even with perfect credit and sufficient income. They only wanted to loan $140k ish on a $210k boat. I ended up paying cash for a 1996 TG and absolutely love it. It has scratched my Top Gun itch and saved me $140k. Now if the guy with the 05' puts it back up for sale, I may have a nice '96 for sale :)..

Great lakes you want that heavy straight bottom. I also remember Kurt also saying nothing beats a Straight bottom and he`s from Florida. You are not winning any speed competitions however that's for sure.
Not too many days you can go WOT around here so...

When people compare the ride of a TS to a straight bottom and say the straight bottom is more of a wave crusher, you have to take into account the speed the boat is traveling when these comparisons are made. Here is what I am saying:

525 Straight bottom TG max speed 65mph cruise 45mph
525 TS TG max speed 85mph cruise 65mph

Now say the water is really rough, to make a fair comparison, pull that TS boat back to the same speed as the straight bottom would be running (45mph) and compare the ride. I'll be willing to bet at 45mph you dont see a difference.

No, bring them both to 65mph where the straight bottom is trimmed out for max speed and the TS is tucked in, running flat, I'll bet the TS ride is better in the rough at that speed.

Straight bottoms are losing speed by the post! First it was 12-15mph faster now it`s 20mph slower .:p
I may have to cut in some steps if I can go 110mph with my power.
:angry-smiley-038:

I kinda see what you`re saying...

You are right spot on with this comment!

I had to chuckle to myself a year ago when I posed the question looking for opinions on new or old rebuilt Bravos vs new with warranty, so many were quick to say never worth the money, never add to value of the boat. I spent less than 3 grand for new over quoted, but maybe not the total, estimated rebuild cost. Mind you no guarantee at all on rebuild. And these are the extra cost Seacore hard anodized finish to boot.

Last fall I had the motors pulled for the normal top end service few weeks back I decided and told my motor guy to take them all the way down, take a look see, put them back with anything they might need. So far new rings, bearings, new and better oil pumps, seals gaskets etc., size the rod big ends if needed, all the best bottom end chit. I was already in it for all new Manley SD valves, Isky springs, Crower SS rockers, new roller lifters, etc. from a guy that accepts nothing less than dead on exact as a result. This is after finding nothing wrong to start with.

So I would assume that my Fountain would not be worth a penny more than another 35 Fountain with worn out drives and some tired old beat to chit 525's just hanging on. Right!

Very good used Perf boats are getting harder to come by these days, fewer are being built, many have been rode hard and put away wet more than once, and it shows. New are just priced out of reach for most of us, so the search is on for the best of the best used out there. Those boats will today, and going forward command, and be worthy of, a premium due to their overall condition. Had a few inquires on mine, threw a number, was told you're a little rich on that Fine! You are free to just go find another. Have a Nice Day!

302 , I confused by your comment on having to trim out a straight bottom in really big water . If the waves are real 2 footers or better i would think you wouldn't have to trim the heck out it to get max speed . At least I don't with my flat deck . I like to run my old tub along side a TS in 3 to 4 footers at 65 to 70 and see what the real difference is . In that kind of water I don't think much of any of the steps would in the water . But i have not driven a stepped boat so I really can't comment . Would be interesting though.
RG.

I may be wrong but I don`t see how stepped bottoms in 3' waves is so much faster. The water is basically the poor mans steps. Hull is aerated either way.
Going from small chop to some decent waves water is like a nitrous shot in my boat, she loves it . lol

Honest question, how much faster is your boat in 3ft waves? Will it run the same speed as the newer boats under these conditions?

Weight to power ratio plays a huge factor and my boat is 16,000lbs on trailer .Boat building methods were old school, none of the newer methods were available . So my boat will always be slower then a newer construction boat . Flat decks are tanks.

Exactly, after 1-1.5 ft chop the steps do zero.... my gun loves neutral trim that's it, with the SSM... in rough water anyway in some big water last summer I was running 60+ and my best bud was doing 18 mph, his boat runs 107, could not keep props hooked up and it was a 35' boat.. so basically when its rough nobody faster likely will not pass ya, all depends what your goals are

Too many opinions and favorites being played here.

Sounds like we need a real world side-by-side comparison. (Like this hasn't been beaten to death ever since the T/S design came out)

I still think the T/S will be faster no matter what, and I have an old non-stepped boat, so I'm certainly not beating my own drum here. They will carry a better average speed.

I'm on the Great Lakes, and I would rather have the T/S!

Back to selling prices; in the end, would be nice to have real data on what the boats are actually selling for. I do think that well taken care of boats in a market where there is little relative supply, will be commanding a premium. Buy a $150K boat that needs nothing, or buy a $100K boat that needs $50K.....

Let's be real here...if you're running legit 3 footers, the steps aren't doing anything so that argument is irrelevant.

I'm just saying that in legit lake Michigan 3 footers, the steps are a very small part of the equation because they are likely being utilized 5% of the time.

You ever come down to Lake Erie our way? We should get together. What does your boat have again? You have big power and drives, correct? I would imagine that your boat would smoke mine, in any water. Regardless, I'd love to see your boat.

80mph in true 3 ftrs, I would love to see that. Personally, I wouldn't do it in anything under 42-46ft. Call me a wuss but I've been there, done that and spun. (granted it was prob a 5 to 6 ft rouge wave/hole) HOWEVER, I've wised up and I just don't do that anymore.

Just noticed you are from grand haven jbraun...are you a west Michigan offshore member? I'm hoping to do a few of their events this summer one being the Muskegon powerboat weekend...assuming my boat is together of course lol