Help me understand gun pricing
 

So I've decided that I'm not going to settle for my next boat...I want a gun and I want a nice one. That being said I'm seeing a huge disconnect in pricing between straight bottom and T/S guns. I'm no dummy and I realize the T/S is the new and best hull for a gun but I just don't understand how a 2000 straight bottom nice with some power can be found for 80-90 yet an 01 T/S with stock 525's is double that or more. Can someone shine a light on why a 1 year newer boat is double the price? I mean I get it the T/S is the new model yada yada but what justifies the price tag??

Thanks guys...be easy on me not trying to start a sh!tstorm lol

What I don't understand is how the 01-08 (ish) boats have not come down in price much in the past 5 years. Outdated interiors, higher hours on driveline, etc. Some of the boats would take a lot of $$ to make them nice.

Must just be the basic law of supply and demand, not a lot of great used boats for sale, and their original sell price was very high. Owners not willing to take the hit and come down on price? I get it, I'm in the same scenario.

You'd probably have to run some numbers and average it out, there are just so many variables when you're only comparing, say, 10 boats?

And like Lucky said, the T/S are faster boats with less HP, means less maintenance, less cost to operate, and more likely to be boating more. That is worth some money right there.

That's exactly what I'm seeing frick and exactly my point...I just don't get the huge delta in pricing for a boat that's a year newer than say a 2000 straight bottom...I totally get your point too LS...The reliability and efficiency of 500's or 525's vs 700 hp blower motors to run the same speed is a huge bonus...so maybe that's what you're paying for? The new technology and speed differential?? Not that I would use it other than an extreme emergency but I'd also have a hard time spending double the loot on a boat that doesn't even have a bathroom....Like I said would probably never use it but would be nice to have in that emergency scenario.

I've never seen a T/S in person...anybody out there close to southwest Michigan with a T/S that wouldn't mind me taking a peek??

Thanks guys!!

That's very true...maybe some will start popping up for a little cheaper

This brings another point to the table....why is it you can buy a 05-08 tiger for cheaper than a gun? Obviously the prestige of owning a Top Gun is worth something as well but from what I have been seeing newer tigers are going for less money? Does that also fall into the supply and demand category?

It's all supply and demand. Between 2009-2014 there aren't many speed boats built, the older ones have been maintaining value because of this. I also think, with the price of a new one people don't feel the need to upgrade as much and are keeping what they have (hence supply VS demand). I don't know if you'll see them getting cheaper, it just boils down to how much work they need. You get what you pay for in an older 38 T/S.

Personally, a cabin to me is a waste, but we don't overnight...ever. I'll wait until I get to my destination to use the bathroom because when you can cruise at 65-70mph it doesn't take long to get anywhere. With my F2 TG T/S everything is setup in the cabin to have one put in, it just doesn't have the vinyl material. Plenty of storage though for lines, fenders, etc. When that headliner falls down in the cabin and you have to replace it (ask me how I know), you'll wish you didn't have one. I'll take the extra 6-7mph.

The Tiger has always been cheaper then a Gun (besides new). The Tiger has a much smaller cockpit and smaller engine compartment. The difference is in the deck. They are also much slower with the same power.

I think that has more to do with size, a 42 tiger is a BIG boat. Bigger truck, bigger slip, lift etc. Those things are huge and if you are not on big water why have it.

That's kinda what I was figuring....thanks for the insight as always!!

Yea that makes sense for sure

But those don't have the "1" on the side hahaha jkjk

And THERE is the answer to your original question! :D

Most of the Tigers were also setup with Bravo XR drives and mild power. Guys started throwing Whipples on them and they started eating drives because of the weight and size of the boat. TS big difference. I have had 3 straight bottoms before the TS.

Not saying the Tigers aren't great....not saying that I wouldn't own one. Just saying the reason that I think some are priced less. Because of drives to weight ratio, and smaller power. Tow vehicle, slip size,

hahahaha touche!!

well other than a step hull being faster w stock power i pretty much disagree with every statement made. I chose a Tiger over a gun and have zero regret (paint by richy excluded).. even with the stock 500's and xrs, my boat rode great in any water and handled great, no porpoise and was a 73 mph boat on 87 octane, when i did the first upgrades i stayed with my xrs and only had one bottom end let loose, and it had 472 hours on it. when i did the whipple upgrade i did switch to scx, but ran the xr lower for a season with no issues at all, i now run the imco sc lower, still xr gears, no problems. a 00 and up tiger weighs less than a late 90s gun as they were vacuum bagged, i know this because my boat was the first bagged hull. the only thing wrong with a tiger with less power is you will eventually want to go faster, with my first upgrades i was in low 80's and in bigger water I outran the shorter boats , I also outlasted the rest of the field in my class and won the 08 miami to bimini race.

What were your "first upgrades"....low 80's is fine with me....being I have never seen a tiger...how does cockpit and cabin compare to a gun honestly?? From what I've seen in pics cockpits look very similar and I would have to imagine that with the extra length being forward that the cabin has to be slightly larger??

You should come to the Cigarette Rendezvous on LOTO, that way you can see all the models in one place, might even find one to buy.

I took my 500 efis and did AFR aluminum heads, bored them to 509 and did the bigger throttle body, injectors and tune.. still ran on 87 octane. the tiger cockpit is smaller by about 10 inches and its all in the helms, the gun helms are shorter. mine has an extended cover-girl cabin with a portapotty, which i took out. here on the chesapeake we are only a few minutes to a tiki bar in any direction. cabin is a little bigger, but the tiger comes to more of a point than the gun, (imo).. lots of the ts tigers with 575s are for sale now the side by side tigers run fine, when they did the first staggers, the cog was off.

I gotcha....so a 575 boat should net a low 80's top speed then probably??

F2...that's actually an awesome idea..I have prior engagements that weekend..however plans may change hmmm...wonder if I would get my a$$ kicked rollin into the cig event with my Nordic hahahaha

What's your budget? Would you consider a straight bottom? email me so you don't have to put it out here.
justin w frick @ hotmail (no spaces or anything)

What is your selling price? 1

email sent

I'm most likely going to list mine after the Cigarette Rendezvous (I'll be there with it). There are hardly any 38 T/S listed for under $150,000....let alone with 525EFI's and low hours.

Come on...its not that much to ask for...80 mph twin step gun like new under 100k hahahaha

In all seriousness didn't want this to turn into a "what should I buy" kind of thread although everyones opinions and suggestions are VERY much appreciated!! I was just looking for an explanation on the huge price delta between straight bottoms and T/S and we have def covered that!! Just amazing to me that age really plays no part in the pricing of these suckers lol Its all about what she can do and how it was built really...few MPH little bit more modern motors and you can double the price...heck wish it was that way for my Nordic!! That thing would be worth 100k hahaha..all jokes aside thanks a ton guys! Super informative as always

LS...if its the same boat...believe we talked a little while back about yours...not sure I can stretch my budget that much but when you're ready to sell things may be different!! If plans change maybe I'll see ya at the rendezvous

The T/S market is high...likely because supply and demand as others have mentioned. Seems like early 2000 T/S are asking the same price they did 5 years ago, which is crazy to me.

Knowing what I do now about boats...i wouldn’t touch an early 2000’s TS for more than 100-110k. Maybe even a little less. Depending on its history many likely need powertrain work...I.e. top ends, drives, etc. sh!t adds up quick. If it were super clean 115-120k. Otherwise a lot of other markets start to open up...AT 37, OL 37, Donzi 38 zr, etc.

More then you will spend LOL

as far as age goes, don't always matter... look at 41 Apaches... 80's boats big $$ all about demand.

As with most boats, depends on condition, and equipment. Look at prices, obviously if engines have 300+ hours on them and need attention the price is going to be lower, if interior is beat, gauges original, paint work, Drives need rebuild. Prices will be lower. But TS boats that have 10-15 hours on EFI motors, Newly rebuilt XR drives, Imco Lowers, updated interiors, covers, newer trailers are always going to command the money. Hard to compare boats.

How much parted out do :
2 Newly Rebuilt Mercury EFI Engines go for
2 Newly Rebuilt XR Drives with IMCO Lowers, Transom Assembly
New Style CMI Headers
2 5-6 Blade Props
All New Gauges, New panels
New Trailer
Add the equipment. It all depends. Interior work and Covers also add a premium. Lots of factors and options

Not to mention some boats have paint that sometimes shows age, ugly or just not what the buyer wants.

What did those T/S guns cost new, versus a 90s non-step? %-wise? That may be one reason you see resale prices higher. what's a new 42X cost? Hard to say without equipment specified, start @ $500K? Well, after XX years, what's the resale? $350K? Bonkers.

Tim I think that's a little different. What's available, maybe like 15 or 20, 41ft Apaches left?

More then that, but simple fact is supply and demand.

Exactly!! I should know, But there's nothing like seeing that long deck in front of you and it eats up the swells. Tiger with 575's does 85mph with 700's 90mph

Power upgrade and SCX drives = awesome boat.

plenty of room in engine compartment,
A little shorter between bolster and rear bench seat. cabin is long. locker on each side, sink/counter on one side and cooler on the other, 7.6 long bench seats and 6' bed, storage in front.