Gladiator questions
 

I am currently the owner of a 32 fountain with big power. I have been waiting in the wings to see how the Gladiator turns out since I loved the proportions immediately. I have questions for gladiator owners or those really in the know. I am new to this forum, please forgive me if I am repeating questions.

1)Which is better, staggered or side by side? Yes i have read about the small cockpit and docking, what about performance? Is the windscreen in the same location on both or further forward on the staggered?

2) Does the lack of a rubrail create stress and grief at the dock? Have any of you added one to protect the hull sides?

3)It appears that several dealers are listing boats with upgraded power and expensive paint in the 220-250K range. Dick Simon sold a sweet 525 efi boat for what I believe was 205-210K. Do these numbers reflect the true market for this boat and therefore give me a starting point when I contact a dealer? I want to order one to my tastes BTW.

4) There is not a dealer in my area (Seattle) can OR should I deal factory direct?

Your input would be greatly appreciated!

You can find some ofwhat you are looking for in a past thread Click Here

G

Try contacting Tres at Martin Offshore or Phil @ Lip-ship. Both very knowledgeable people.

J

Thanks Cigarrette 1, I read the thread and it was helpful. If any one has more information regarding my questions I would appreciate that too!

2112,
Here is another thread with some information,
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...threadid=60773

D.Simon had the blue one listed at $200k must of sold somewhat under $200k from what I read.

There is one at Pier 57 Also could be had for under $200k
http://www.fountainusa.com/gladiator.htm

Phil has one with Sterlings 750's listed for $259k
http://www.lipshipperformance.com/pr.../Glad2003.html

Here are the list prices for new I have heard that you can discount those prices significantly, but my days of buying new boats are in the past so I do not know first hand how much. I have heard about deals on different models around 20% under but take this with a grain of salt since it is second hand.

Drives Bravo I ITS-XR
36 Gladiator (Staggered) 500 EFI-$314,743 /525 EFI-$329,446 / 575 SCI-$370,777

You might want to do a search here and on googles with "Cigarette Gladiator and 36" as keyword and spend a few hours digging around. Nothing beats being informed.

Hope this helps,

G.L.

Here is a quote regarding performance and comparaison between Staggered and side by side;

Im waiting for my son to get up so here you go some more while digging around!
http://typhoonperformancemarine.com/cigarette.htm

Boat test, looks like Jeff's boat:
http://www.boattest.com/general-info.aspx?ID=226

Wow, thanks GLH. I do just want as much information as possible before I talk the talk.

I have owned nothing but new and for many reasons know why you might not want to go that route. My fountain, which was custom ordered, was a huge disappointment on the QC issues. I believe Cigarrette is better on that front.

I am always a little nervous that a used boat has been abused and either not readily apparent or blatantly hidden.

I will try the digging you have suggested. Thanks again!

The only thing that makes me nervous is initial depreciation!!!

I could only afford new boats when I was broke! :D:D Not that I am far from that now!

The new ones listed at Typhoone are at $259K and list is $330k that's 70k of the MSRP around 21% less about what I had heard.

Good Luck in your search.

I have a 2003 Lip-Ship edition canopied Gladiator with less than 100 hours total time on it. I'll let it go for around 200K. I am leaning towards selling it because I have decided not to race next year and I already have another boat for pleasure/poker runs. The Gladiator has fully staggered 500EFIs, ITS drives and all the bells and whistles from Lip-Ship. Add some air conditioning and a nice stereo and it would be a great poker run or pleasure boat. Send me a PM if you have any interest or if you want any more pics or info.

A very nice boat and the asking price seams reasonable for a well sorted race boat (I assume that includes trailer). I am favoring an open cockpit at this time, but will, over the next several weeks keep this in mind. If it would be easy, could you post a pic that gave better detail of the canopy and how it is finished to the deck etc.

You know, up here in Seattle, a canopy would probably extend my season??

The hull and the deck are the same as the pleasure versions. From what I understand, when it comes time for the cockpit, they install the canopy instead of the standard fairing. Here is a picture of the boat under construction. You can see the joint where the canopy is installed in place of the standard wind fairing.

Here is another angle.

Like the rest of the seams on the boat, when it's finished it's as smooth as glass.

If you want to see one of these canopies being removed from a Gladiator, check out this web site. Tres Martin is working on one now and has posted a few pictures of the process. This may give you a better idea of how they are put together. I think that this is kind of a shame because there were only three of these canopied Gladiators ever made. Now, with this one being converted, there are only two.

If I end up keeping my boat, the canopy will stay and we will install an AC system and a stereo. Besides, if you are sitting in air conditioning you don't have to worry about getting sun burned! Also, as you stated, the canopy greatly extends the boating season!

Here is the link to Tres Martin's web site. Once the site loads, click on the link that says "36 Gladiator - Race To Pleasure."

Martin Offshore

I guess Ocean Performance has a 2002 Gladiator with 500 EFI's and XR's listed for $169K.

http://www.oceanperformance.com/boat%20sales.htm

After your tips and looking around myself, It appears the market on gladiators are somewhat soft on the used end and the MSRP is very overly optimistic.

No knock on the boat, I imagine that without any cabin whatsoever it is in is own classification

I think it applies to more than the Gadiator, all performance boats are in that bag these days.

But still a 2002 "listed at $169K might be had for, let's say $150-$155 and this is now a 2 year old boat. Based on the new ones at $259, let's say bought for $245-$250 That is close to $100k in 2 years, now in post #8 you mentioned that buying used made you a little nervous. At 100k in depriciation on a 2002 boat, unless it sunk you could change all the mechanicals including outdrives and you would still have a LOT of money left.

I'll stand by my statement that what makes me nervous is the initial depriciation. Mind you the same happens with most cars. I am not unfortunatly at the level of bliss financialy where that kind of hit would not seriously jolt me. I don't think I ever would be, but thats me!

GLH: You are right. On a new boat, depreciation is the killer. We have raced this Gladiator only 3 times and have run it 10-12 times for pleasure/testing. We planned to run the entire race season this past year, but that is another story in itself. Either way, to prove your point I will use my boat.

I built the boat brand new last year and have roughly 260K in it. This is just the boat. Then you add a trailer, a custom travel cover, canopy cover, spare prop sets, spare drives and misc extras. Basically, if I sell the boat for 200K I stand to loose roughly 90K in one year! It's crazy, but that is reality. This is what makes me want to keep the boat around, but I am not racing next year and I need two pleasure boats like a hole in the head!

As for the 2004 Cigarette price list, here is the one from Martin Marine. 2004 Cigarette Price List As everybody knows, these are not the actual selling prices, just the list prices.

HD you've owned some awesome rigs and I would not argue one bit your knowledge of operating costs on those toys!

There is a passage in the movie "The Right Stuff" about the space program that I am also reminded often when boating;
-You know what really makes your rocket ships go up?
-The aerodynamics would take so long to explain to you that--
-Funding. (interupting), That´s what makes your ships go up.


Like I tell my wife all the time about those rigs;
You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs.

36 Cig
 

When I went to Offshore Performance to look at a 38 Sonic they had a 36 Cig in the show room.I talked to Harry about the Sonic,didn't look at the Cig but the paint was drop dead tricked out.

There seems to be a missing post about a repaired boat that has been deleted. It is this kind of situation I do not want to be in. With the gladiator being a painted boat from the get go, It could be tough to tell if there is hidden damage.

The recent deal that really interests me the most is the boat Jeff's friend, Mike, bought from Dick Simon. If they sell one like that will they sell another?

I am also very interested in the OSO boat being sold by Steve, Minus power is right up my alley since I prefer to rig myself using big block Fords. Again, My worry is hull/deck damage covered by paint. I assume this boat is in undamaged condition and will try to see ASAP.

Dick Simon is no longer, so you won't wee anymore Gladiators sold out of there.

I tryed to buy that boat about 6 months before they finally sold it. they wanted 289K at the time and I told them I would give them about 235k. They were not interested and that is as far as it went. The boat ended up selling for less than 200K.

I would look around. There are deals out there, and because they don't have a cabin I think they are a harder sell imo.

I still would not mind owning one:cool:

2112: If you are worried about prior damage, the Gladiator is a good boat to check out because you can see most of it. On most boats, the paint (outside) and the cabin (inside) cover the fiberglass. Since Gladiators do not have a cabin, this will allow you to closely inspect any of them for prior damage. If you go through the deck hatch into the bow, you will be able to tell if there is an area that has been patched or repaired.

You can obviously get a good inspection of the engine room too, but it may be a little more difficult to see a repair here because of the paint. So, in a Gladiator, the only area that you cannot easily examine is the area around and under the cockpit. For these areas, simply take a close look at the exterior sides and hull of the boat.

If you are not sure or confident about any of this, it can never hurt to hire a good surveyor to go over the boat. After the survey you will know what you are getting into. Also, if you do find problems down the road that the surveyor missed, you may have some recourse with them as well as the seller. Anyhow, good luck and happy hunting!

2112, I think you are talking about my new Gladiator. It had ben spun and partially sunk in fresh water a few years ago. I was not aware that it had been wet so I hired a surveyor to do a thorough inspection of the boat. The survey came back clean, in fact he said that the small amount of repair work that had been done was perfect. I actually closed the deal without ever seeing the boat in person, although the seller is a regular on OSO and would never be squirrely!! Dave was great through the whole transaction. Here is a pic from yesterday....

d-hlaw: Sweet boat and congratulations! I know that you are gonna love it! You brought up a good point. As long as repairs are done properly they should not be anything to worry about.

Our old Top Gun had been rolled during the race season before we bought it. It had some cracks repaired on the left side just above and below the rub rail. No big deal. We bought the boat and ran it for a year with no problems. From us it went to another owner that ran it with some big power. Still no problems. Now Cigarette1 on this board has it and I am sure that it will not give him any problems either.

After Phil pointed out the area that had been repaired, my surveyor said it was probably better and stronger than new.

G

Hey guys;

I appreciate your input. All good suggestions.

Let me pose another question to you. Say I wanted to buy a boat from a factory that had no dealer within 1000 miles of me. I wanted to order the boat specifically to my specifications. It takes about 2-3 hours at the most for the dealer to process the order. The boat is delivered to me, I never see or contact the dealer again due to geographical distance.

What is a reasonable fee for that service? Dealer cost plus?? 5K 10K?? more?

Maybe I am seeing it incorrectly. When I order a new truck, It is always invoice plus X (usually 300 bucks plus the holdback they get from the factory 7-20%).

They seem to like the arrangement. Takes about one hour of phone time, no hassles, no flooring or advertising costs, another rig sold everyone is happy.

Obviously boats are so much more custom but if I can spell out EXACTLY what I want and there is no real follow up due to distance can this fair exchange process work here too? Are boat invoices available to public as they are with cars and trucks?

I hope to get a better understanding of how the process works. I also hate the dickering. I can relate to "this is my cost and this is the fee for my service" of course it helps if that fee is close to being commensurate to the service provided (ie is 50 grand really fair for a few hours phone time?)

Let me know guys, great input thus far!

I don't know about invoices being available, but I was shown what the dealer had payed for the boat when I bought mine. The salesman was a friend though. I am not sure most sales persons would do this.

I was shown the invoice on a held over Fountain but I didn't put much stock in it the salesperson wanted to show me what a great deal I was being offered.

In my opinion there isn't anything related to buying a boat that is similar to a car, especially custom built boats like Cig, Pantera and others. You negotiate the deal that you can live with.

Thanks for the replys;

Interesting discussion. I hope to find or order a Gladiator in the next few months. I am sure I will have a post or two at that time.

I have some pics of Gladiators...Maybe you'll find a paint scheme you like. I'll post them.

LS JR.

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