Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

A buddy is looking at this boat, it's a 1991 carbon 70. Any info would be great.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

nice looking boat....

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I've had both TG's and Cafe's, take the Cafe' any day of the week. Especially Kevlar.

Nice, clean looking boat. Check the mid cabin bulk head for stress cracks.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Express, just like to know why you prefer the Cafe to the TG. Always thought it to be kind of a progression, 35 then to 38 TG. Thanks in advance.
John.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I talked with a guy near Indianapolis almost two years ago about that boat. Is it still in that area? I have some pictures that he emailed me around somewhere...I'll see if I can find them and post 'em up. It appeared to be very clean and in overall good shape.

Craig :)

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

So far, this is all that I can find.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Craig, the boat is still in Indianapolis, was there something you didn't like about the boat?

Express is the stress cracks common to the Carbon 70 model or is that a Cafe thing?

Thanks for the info guys.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

No, there was nothing that I didn't like about it, I just had to narrow my boat seach to boats less than 32'. I can't find the rest of the pictures that he sent me but I do remember that it had a very clean transom and drives and I believe that the engines were around 600HP.

I was told by many that the Carbon hulls were awesome, but a good survey was neccesary. Check for cracks in the front center of the cabin (in front of the berth).

Craig

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

If you need it surveyed call me

Martin Marine Surveying
215-852-6641

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Docking lights !

First time I've seen them on a 90'S or newer Cig.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Check on "Carbon Fiber" Boats W/cigarette!

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

:confused:

;)

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Barron, I called cigarette and no one there could really tell me anything about the Carbon 70. Did they have "issues"?

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I talked to Bud today at Cigarette. He agreed with me that the carbon 70 boats weigh a lot less than 400 lbs compared to a fiberglass boat. Do you have any particular reason for a Cafe over a Gun??

LS JR.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Share with the class what Bud thought ( or better yet knows ) they weighed, both the Cafe' and the Top Gun.

Just trying to compare it with what Craig told me.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I didn't get a direct answer out of him because we were on the factory floor but he said 400 lbs is like two people and two people wouldn't make a huge difference. He asked me what my boat ran, 64? I said no it had 525SC Hawks he said then oh probably 72. I said yes. So 64 to 72=8 MPH. There is your difference in the Carbon Fiber.

LS JR.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Interesting.

For some reason, I have in my head that for every 200-225 pounds you give up 2 mph . . . under that theory 8mph would be 800-900 pounds.

What I dont know / remember is at what weight level that applied to.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Ok, so that is a little more double what you said......Finally we got THIS settled! :)

LS JR.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

The 400 pounds difference is what I was told was for the Cafe' only.

I made a thread in General about weight vs speed loss.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Lucky Strike, I think it was Bud that I talked to at Cigarette, all he really said was that the Carbon 70 's are a little lighter. He really didn't answer my question on weather they were prone to any problems or not. I like the Top Guns alot to but I really haven't found any in that price range that aren't TRS boats.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

You need to do your homework. Talk to people that have had TRS boats and talk to people that have had bravos. See which boats porpoise and which blow drives.

LS JR.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I'm not defending him, but I believe that Bud was either working in the Parts department at Cigarette or building engines for Hawk during the time frame that the Carbon Fiber boats where being built / produced, so his knowledge of them might be limited in that aspect.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

How much and where, is the Carbon Fiber used in the Carbon70 models?

G

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Isnt 64 mph more in line with what an old school ( vee bottom ) 502 mag / bravo TG will run with 780 hp compared to your 980 hp SC525's ? I thought that a SC525 old school TG would run 67/68 mph normally . . .

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I'm not sure G.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I know the old school Top Guns and Cafe Racers run the same with equal power. My Cafe ran 68-69 on GPS with stock 502MAG carb motors. After bumping the power to roughly 535hp, I ran 74+ on GPS. Everyone doesn't trim the same and two people will see a different top end. You will only see the speeds I ran in the right conditions and running very loose.

So there's your 3.5-4 mph / 400lbs

Tabs Up / Drives Out

G

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Hey G today I spoke to Bud at the factory, he said the only race boats that are carbon fiber, are the 5 - 42 foot Top Guns.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Actually, only 4 38' Top Guns were the Carbon Fiber models :)

Original boat and team
Speed Racer (Dick Simon & Stinson)
Virgin (Tres & Todd)
Maxx (not sure, Martin Marine)
mine (Phil & Cabasco)

G

4 extremely rare and VALUABLE boats :D :D :D

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I hate to disagree with you Gary, becuase I would love them to be Carbon Fiber, but their not according to the people who built them.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

When I spoke to Craig Barrie he told me he was at Cigarette when the carbon fiber boats were built. He said there really was not much of a difference with the fiberglass boats because carbon fiber was only used as a layer. The boats were primarily fiberglass because they couldn't make them purely of carbon fiber because they would be very weak and crack.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

There is a minimum of 1000 lbs difference. You can feel it in the way it rides. You should know Frank, you were out in ours!

LS JR.

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Yeah Frank, you should know that. :rolleyes:

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I believe those four boats have more carbon fiber in them than any of the other boats.

G

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I hope so. You know why..........

Bobby

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

There were some issues W/ carbon boats check W/ Craig Barrie or Martin Marine about these boats.

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I found that Luck Strike's boat has a fantastic ride, if someone is looking for a carbon boat, they definitely should check out that boat; it is extremely clean and obviously meticulously cared for......

however, in my conversation with Craig Barrie, while I was considering LS's boat, the statement to me was that there wasn't that much of a difference...this statement was not quantified as far as difference in weight, I will defer to LS or LS, Jr. as they have been more intimitely involved with these boats, I will say though, that their boat definitely felt lighter than other 'glass boats I've ridden....

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

Anyone who who is interested in buying a Gun and wants to see the difference between a Carbon Fiber boat and a Fiberglass boat, give us a call; and we'll take you for a ride.

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my stringers in Speed Racer are capped w/ carbon fiber. my entire deck is carbon fiber, as well as the cockpit floor. i also believe my original driver's station is carbon fiber as well. just thought i would throw that in.....

G- is your boat the same?

here is a picture of the cabin before i updated it. as you can see the top of the stringers are darker, which is the carbon fiber matting. unfortunatly, i don't have a picture of the underside of the deck.

chad

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

I hope you guys are right because after we sell our Carbon Gun were looking to replace it with a Carbon T/S. Hope we don't have to go with a 42' to get a Carbon boat. :blaster:

Bobby

Re: Does anybody know this Cafe?
 

My floor was reinforced ... I thought you did that on yours. The original floors would flex too much outside of the front bolsters. I was told that they only built the port & starboard carbon fiber helms for my boat ... easy enough to check. As far as the deck and stringers, mine are the same. I also kept the race hatch which is made from carbon fiber.

G