Rich would you say that the 35 Jesse james was heavier or lighter the sal's 36 seahawk?

If i remember correcty the 35 JJ was about 8,000 pounds?

hi TX2,i was talking about the 37 i think it was not made from fiber and wood but only from ply wood(outside)

I would guess that the Conquest was slightly heavier than Sal's tubular framed 36. I would also guess that JJ was lighter than Willy Falcon's 38 Cougar, but Brownie and us didn't exactly share notes back then. Sometimes I wish we had.

T2x

I am confused..... The 37 was a wooden plug that was later reinforced with Fibreglass. But it should not be rebuilt as an all wood boat. Cougar proved repeatedly that there was not enough strength in pure wood construction for offshore cats.

T2x

Did JJ got heavier when the canopies were added?

yes....... it not only gained weight from the canopies but also from the additional reinforcements, etc.

T2x

Interestingly enough, the tube frame boat was heavier, but more durable than the plate bulkhead boat. It had so much lift that we had to put a dam just behind the nose of the tunnel top. A big luxury to be able to make minor modifications from boat to boat and not tell Rich...............

Well there you go......

Sal gave me a tour of that boat and was raving about the extra strength and weight savings............

one out of two aint bad........

At that point in time the aluminum Cougars ruled the World's race courses...... and we took our best shot at them.....

In retrospect....it turned out that Skater was the ultimate victor...... and it makes you wonder why Cougar didn't sustain its position. In the following years CUV, Ten Cara, Victory in addition to Skater all managed to out perform (or at least out sell) the Cougars.

Brownie: Any insight into what caused the loss of Cougar's dominance?

Tee too ECKS

When I agreed to leave Magnum (best job in the world except for the money) and become Prez of Cougar, they had not yet reached their dominance. Like most things, at least in my life, they were not exactly as they appeared. We were going to be the marine branch of McClaren, the Sabre Diesel distributor, etc. Never happened. Instead, we became the US racing arm of Cougar, Ltd. James Beard was my hero. One of the neatest guys I ever met. Big brain, very large stones. You could buy a Kevlar Cigarette for $24,000. We got $85,000 for a 38' Aluminum cat.

They sent me the cheese to buy Donzi's yard on the row, when the exchange rate was about 1 pound = $2.50 US. We operated at a small loss or a small profit, with "Mommy" sucking out the profit. After five years, the exchange rate was 1 pound equalled $1.03US. The yard had appreciated 50%. All in all, we bought the yard for 300,000 pounds, and sold it for 1,000,000 plus. Nobody makes that kind of bucks in the boat building business. The rest, as they say, is history.

I never regretted a minute of my time there.

And you did a great job........ I saw a documentary showing Stevie working on a composite cat in England during the 90's... and they still make great RIB's. Did the racing thing wear out with the Curtis family....or was it just not generating enough return?

T2x

it was extremely hard to stay ahead of of you b**tards...........

T2x,thanks a lot for all your advice and help !!good to have guy,s like you!

Normally I don't dispute your words....... but this time your exageration has gone too far.......:p

Whats the story on this one? I've seen it race in St.Claire and was alway intrigued by the wood bottom.

Would I be wrong in saying that the Jaguars which plug was built by Kenny also started the demise of Cougars domination.

Panama Jack was originally What A Package. I don't ever remember it performing as well as the larger boats.

We built that one for Dominick Palumbi and it was originally christened "What-A-Package". Later it raced out of Florida and won a regional high points Championship as "Panama Jack". Since then it has been renamed for a pair of twins, a pizza company, and some other incarnations.

It was somewhat heavy, and not as fast as the later "Captain America" we built (see below). It also did not have particularly attractive styling.... but it has lasted , it seems, forever.....

By the way the entire boat is wood fibreglass composite...not just the bottom.

T2x

I can't see how...... Jack only made two or three that were competitive in open class....and only for a few years. The only real consistent winner was John D'elia's. Jack's bigger "stretch" versions of that hull didn't turn out well at all.... and by then Peter Hledin had a much bigger impact. Jaguar did make that Mike Peter's designed Superboat, but it seemed like too little too late.

Remember Cougar had multiple boats campaigning in Europe, and the U.S. in both open and Superboat class. In truth neither Jaguar....nor Conquest ...had a major impact on their position.

We did manage to give Cougar a much better run for their money with the Shadow/Chris Cats in the smaller classes.

IMHO the 35' Jaguar was basically a scaled up Chris Cat and very well made, although for the record, neither George nor I had any involvement with that hull.

T2x

I don't think any builder of offshore raceboats dallied in the area of wierd boats that we did. The 8 engine Popeye's, the 12' NACA wing over Toleman's 38' alunimum cat. The bottom shape, with last panel following the datum line., variety of materials, etc. Remember that we invented the Superboat class (much to my regret), perfected the big triple vees, the Cougar Cub, first over 100 mph, 110, 120 130 140, 150. Other than that, we didn't do s**t.

this is still owned by the Bakers brothers (twins) one lives in St Pete now and the other is still in Lk. St. Clair area they used to double trouble a 24 Skater and campaigned this for a few years as Beach Bull and last i heard they still have the boat but was running 2.4 outboards so not very competitive

Andy the last time she was at the St Clair race around 2004 I dont think she passed inspection. I think the Baker boy's still have her, she may show up in St clair this weekend with that classic ambulance tow vehicle ??????

It's also interesting to note the variety of race conditions that the Cougars were designed for. On the one hand you had ultra light speed hulls like the 8 engine Popeye's. On the other hand only two boats finished the grueling Miami-New York race....... both of them were Cougars as well.

We didn't look at them as one of our targets....In fact, they were the ONLY target we shot at........ Except for Fabio;)

T2x

How much did that 8 engine Popeyes weigh?

About 4500# all up. 2000HP. It ran 170 at the lake. Official UIM record was 148 mph. I might have gone faster, but the fire was sucking up some of the oxygen.

that is light, i use to have the race on tv from treasure cay, but lost it...Do you have any pictures of it?

I'll look.............

as requested

Didn't Kenny Adams tool the first running plug for Jack @ Jaguar?

Yes...... on his own...as a side project..

T2x

Oh, I got you , who drew it, I agree and always thought it was a blown up Chris Cat......

I have no idea who drew it....maybe Kenny...He is great at lofting.

The first time I knew anything about it was when the wooden running plug showed up at a race......in Florida as I recall maybe in '86.....

It sank in that race..... thankfully the glass versions did better.

It was actually very different from any of the Conquests and much more in line with the older Chris Cat design. Jack had raced a Chris Cat called "Thriller" previously and done very well with it.

T2x

I remember they one the National Championship with the "thriller" It WAS much BOXier than the Conquests that were very sleek comparitively. I am sorry I missed seeing you in Sunny Isles.

Yeah ...me too...

I went down for the old timer's party on Friday night...and to lay Davey's ashes in the Sea.

By the way...where's my vinyl?

T2x

Vinyl...what vinyl....you still waiting on T-351.....two of them????

Yes...Left and right sides

Plus Joey told me he asked you about my Skater.

I sent him art for the name on your Skater along time ago and never heard back.....

I'll check with him. In the meantime please send the numbers.

T-351 left and right.

Thanks

I'll UPS them tomorrow.....

Brownie what was the story on these early Active cats, were they a license Cougar designed ???

Thanks.

I will email you the Skater Graphics that I have a quote on ......