I just ran across some walter 601B's which are a very close copy of pt-6's. They are 760 hp each and seem to be bullet proof with easier maintainance. Any thoughts on using these verses the pt-6? GE has bought the rights to the walter turbines and are installing them in place of pt-6's.

I think you should sell dad and I the boat ! lol let's see some pics

I was looking at the boat today and I peeled back some carpet and found the old markings for the forward and reverse levers and the brake pedal openings. On the right side of the door I found markings for the balast tank (fill, dump, bilge) and holes for some gauges. It was amazing to see the markings and know they were put there in 1966 and they are in great shape except for the glue that was smeared around and over some of the letters.
Anyone know of a boat with walter 601's in it?
I will be selling my t-53-13, it is a very nice motor, 1400 hp with an output shaft speed of 6000 RPM. It is 4 feet long and 2 feet in diameter. It is a lot more compact than the PT-6's or the walters. Will sell reasonable.

I was just looking up the specs for the walter 601 b turbines, the shaft horse power is 690 and the torque is 1744 lbs/ft at 2080 rpm.
I talked to the previous owner and he said at 5000 rpm the boat would run 60 mph. So with the 1.5/1 reduction the prop would be spinning at 3333 rpm.
For ocean racing or just going and having fun,what would be a good speed to set this boat up for? Would a top speed of 60 mph be good enough?
The reason I am asking is I think that this boat would run that speed with just one turbine. It would be a lot lighter and wouldn't have to carry as much fuel. I could also use the existing transmisions and v drives. I would have to gear up the output of the turbine to 5000 rpm which would lower the torque, and divide it between the two drives.
I know there are some people out there that could help me with this and I would appreciate any input. I live in the middle of nowhere and have no contact with offshore racers other than on the internet. There are some good machinists out here and I haven't run across a project I couldn't do yet. So this will get done but I would be more encouraged with your help.
My hopes are to have it ready for the historic boat marathons.

Another question, when I remove the 454's and the luggage that goes with them, how will that effect the balance of the boat? It has gas tanks on each side that go from the front of the cockpit to the transom and hold 500 gals each and it has a ballast tank up front that looks like it would hold 200 plus gallons. I estimate the weight removed will be 2000 lbs and will be installing 450-500 lbs in the same location. Where should the balance point be on a boat like this? It has arneson surface drives and trim tabs. It seems a variable weight like fuel should be at the center of gravity. I have heard 25% from the transom is correct. That seems a little to far aft, maybe 28-30%?

great thread PUT if your not setting the boat up as it was with twin pt 6 turbines, then its worthless. if its over your head double what you payed for it and sell it to someone who can finish it now like racesdad or take them on as a partner. so please don't make a mess out of it with a single t53. my buddys boat has two of them and with exhaust there like 8 or 10 feet long from the transom to where the exhaust comes out. so I think you would have issues with that motor plus it won't match what was in it. the boat is worthless with out the same turbines so do it right or sale it to guys who came get her done in 6 months not talk about it for 3 years otherwise 3years from now we will still be talking about it. and I am not busting your balls, but you have guys here that can build it in 6 months.theres a lot of work setting up turbines . also go to skater threads look up turbine 101 gerry did how to on installing his turbines there the t53s I talked about. good luck but if I was you and I could sell it and double my money after 3 years I would so in 6 mons its done. going cross country as a show theres just not that many people into boats you would not make a dime but should race it in the old school class.

Boy you would hate my project and plans.:cool-smiley-011:

Ya, you are right it is worthless! I called the scrap metal guy today and he will start cutting it up tomorrow.
I have 4 turbines for sale, three walter 601 b's and a t-53 -13. I will keep the ls6 454's and put one in my 68 convertable camaro with a blower. Might sell the other one.
I also have a nice trailer for sale
The guy I bought it from was right all it is is scrap metal!

:eek: This is a joke correct?? ... Do not pay attention to what anyone say's and just take your time and finish it.
If you are even remotely serious about scrapin this ..please don't...I'll take it.

That worthless boat wieghed a little more than we thought it would, paid pretty good. He even let me keep the transom and two feet of the nose, I also kept the exhaust stacks. I am glad I was not there when steve cut it up, I probably would have stopped him and then I would have had to spend more money on a worthless boat.I think I will mount the transom on my shop wall with the nose on the outside, Not sure if I will leave the arnesons mounted on it, accordding to arneson they are worhtless too, even thou they look like new. Anyone need some old arnesons? Pantera 24 thanks for atleast making some kind of comment, I could not have let anybody have it after I decided to scrap it plus I already had a deposit from steve.
It is not the first time I have done this, I had a 38 LaSalle convertable coupe with a rumble seat. It was about 3/4 restored and complete, Colorado rust free car. Every time I talked to some one about selling it they told me it wasn't worth what I was asking for it. I had priced it very resonable, it was one of 6 know to exist, it is razorblades!
Maybe someone can make a replica of the thunderbird and it would even be more worhtless.
If anyone wants the nose and transom it is for sale too, but it won't be cheap!
I had three people within a week tell me either the boat was worthless or the parts on the boat were worthless or what i was trying to do was worthless. I didn't think that what I was doing was worthless but obviously I was wrong. You guys need to wake up, it was 1 of 1 period! It was the first turbine powered offshore racing boat, it never broke like the indy cars and it never lost!
End of boat!
End of thread!
End of story!
If I want a go fast boat I will write a check for it, just like everyone else.

:eekdrop: Ok now that I have picked myself up off the floor.......
all I can say is WOW....I respect your decision but WOW.....can I buy the steering wheel?

Angel

Whaaaaaaaaaaat?????? NO WAY!!!

What a HUGE disappointment, You have been a period correct restorer somewhat devoted to what should have been a relatively easy endeavor.................. Your quote "I would appreciate any leads on st-6's. I don't plan on selling it until I have turbines in it and have been able to run it for awhile. I don't think I will ever run across something this special in my lifetime again so I better keep it and enjoy it. It is in a nice dry storage barn behind my house until I can find the right parts to restore it correctly, any help would be greatly appreciated. I have had several offers on this boat and have passed on them. I understand your interest, too bad they only built one!! "

You should have entertained Stancolmes’ offer ( A real Offshore Race family ), at least they knew what it was
I really cannot get over your lack of appreciation for the boat and lack of judgment in her disposition ...................

???????????????????????????? I still really cannot understand what you did and why ??????????????????????????????????

I really hope you're joking... If not, what a waste

I hope this is a joke.

Colorado or Timbuktu, if Odell Lewis finds out you had that boat really cut up for scrap, get a new identity card.

That cobbled up piece of chit won't be worth anything either when you're done with it. Might as well save yourself the trouble and scrap it now.

Stop the madness
 

I really do not understand all this. Destroying a legend why?! Lack of money? Lack of space to store it or what?!
I understand the frustration about the difficulties to restore it as before but from this destruction of the hull this is really absurd and silly.

boycott all canned beverages so he does'nt get the scrap prices promised

I really don't get it! When I first saw this boat it was on ebay and the owner was talking about the scrap value of the boat as a sales pitch. All he wanted was scrap value of 10,000.00 and no one really bid on it I think it went to 5500.00. So I stepped up to the plate and bought it, I gave him what he wanted for it and saved it from the scrap man. He was working toward cleaning up his yard and had already scrapped the Casale vdrives, props, shafts, rudder ect.
So I see some historic value to the boat and start this thread. I didn't start the thread to sell the boat, I started it so I would be able to get some help restoring it. I didn't get much help on the boat but when I tried to do something with the boat, I was doing it wrong and people kept telling me it is not worth much. I got people that wanted to buy it and but no real offers, did not really want to sell it anyway. I told one guy what I thought it would be worth when it was done, he must have thought I was crazy and he did not even have the courtesy to reply.
I talked to a guy about different drives and told him I was removing two ls6 454's with borg warner 72c with v drives and asked what they would be worth, he said he would give me 1500.00, so I call arneson and asked them some questions and they tell me their great drives that I was so proud of are worthless and I should buy new drives. Then I get some guy posting on here that I should sell this thing to someone else who could do this right and if I did anything to it it would be worthless.
So I finished the fate that it was headed for anyway and I am a bad person. The way I look at it I gave it another three years of life. Besides that, all the time I owned this boat I didn't run across a singe person that deserved to own it. I am sure there was, There a lot of good people in this sport.
When I posted that I needed some help getting this boat rigged, no one responded. I was nearly begging for help and the only post I got is that my boat is worthless, thanks for all the help on what was MY boat not your boat. If I wanted to put outboards on it that would be my decision, you might not have liked it but you should respect it!
By the way rt930 you are right I would not put that engine in my all original # matching 350 ss 4 spd convertible that I have owned for 30yrs but if I wanted to that is my decision not yours.
A person knew when they walked up to the turbine thunderbird it was a race boat even without the paint and race #. The hull was beautiful but the engine installation was kind of crude with no polished parts or fittings. The welds were kind of rough and the finish detail was not there. It was put together for one reason and that was for racing!
As far as Mike stancolme goes he had never made a real offer or talked to me about it. When I first talked to Mike he was going to help me find some turbines, apparently he found some but he never offered them to me. So I assumed he had another project he was going to put them in. As far as being original, the pt-6's are not correct either. They are suppose to be ST-6's so what mike was thinking was not correct either.

Maybe you just don't get it after all :crazy: I have / had some very rare and special pieces of Automotive and marine history, none of that matters here though. And for the record my 24 Cig (How many REAL 24 cigs have you ever seen?) Was not painted "candy azz" colors. It was all white, and hardcore to the max.

The point I'm trying to make, is who cares what it's worth? That seems to be all that matters to you, not the value of saving something special for others to see. There are plenty of people on this site, and across the country that have spent 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars on boats and cars that even when finished aren't worth a fraction of what they cost to build. But it's done out of passion; not so they can talk about "how much it will be worth when it's done."

As for your LS6 454's? I got news for you; pretty much every marine HP motor from the 70's thru the 80's comes back as an LS6 when you cross the numbers. Does that make them super valuable? Not really, because it still wont build you a numbers matching muscle car. $1500 is fair money for a condition unverified clapped out 454. I have more than a few of them...

You come on this site, maybe because you figure there are people here with means you don't have, and you think you can ask for free parts and labor to finish YOUR boat? When all you seem to care about is what it will be worth when its finished.

So many important historical things are lost everyday. Buildings, cars, boat, documents, etc. because they don't have enough cash value. I think it's ignorant and selfish to destroy something that could be very meaningful to many just because you can't make money on it.

I'm sure you have something that is special to you? A trinket, a parent or grandparents war metal, maybe a picture of your family. Someday maybe I can buy that from your estate sale for $.50 and destroy it for you; after all it's just a piece of garbage, right?

you could have gave it to hornet marine in bristol ct the would have restored that boat they wanted it last year i though but they said the seller wasnt interesred in selling it . now look at it what a waste some people have no respect for the sport

This is exactly why we started HORBA, so these great old boats aren't destroyed.

This guy hasn't a clue on what he just did to the history of the sport. Unfortunately, there is no way to prevent people like this from getting their hands on the great old boats.

My suggestion to the board members. Let the thread die...he obviously gets off on this.

This guy is not worth any more comments...let this thread and Mr Thunderbird go off in to the sunset to screw up another project without comment.

Top banana
Thanks for the post!
Finally someone comes to the real point of saving these boats! It is not what the value of the individual pieces are or what people have done to the boat, it is what the boat has done in its lifetime. Its history, its the story!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I restore antique, classic and muscle cars along with rebuilding and restoring aircraft. That is what I do for a living. People have commented that I should sell my boat to someone else who has the money or knowledge to do it right. I haven't talked to anyone who remotely comes close to being able to do that.
This boat will take years of hunting for the right parts! It needs two ST-6's not PT-6's Thats why I didn't pursue the pt-6's of Mike's, they are not correct! It needs two truck or cadillac pursue I have heard two different stories on that, can't verify which it needs. It needs two water cooled Casale vdrives of the right vintage, verified by Andy Casale who actually worked on this boat. It needs the right props and gear ratio's. It needs the right brake levers and linkage and the right shifters and levers It needs the right gauges and period correct steering wheel and linkage down to the right rudder ect., ect., ect.
This is far from being an easy restoration!!!!!! , It is very difficult to document and very little has shown up to help.
I am not and will not ask anybody to work on my boat, it is my project and I will do my way.
All I have ever asked for is information, which has been very limited.
I don't mind if someone would like to be part of this restoration in some way, I would be honored by their help.
The scenario that we just went through has happened to alot of boats and cars and airplanes and anything else you can think of.
I stepped up to the plate and bought this boat, it is my boat and I saved it from the scrap heap. Maybe someone could say thanks instead of you don't know what you are doing or you are walfling through an easy project ect ect ect.
Rest assured that when this boat is done it will be right.
But for right now it will have a walter turbine in it, as I find the right parts they will go on the boat or be collect for the future. For those who have never really restored something like this please understand it will take quite some time and effort to finish this project and if you know of someone else that is doing some thing like this please encourage them. You can't just write checks, you have to put your own blood and sweat and sometimes tears in to it.
Theres no documentation on anything, just a few limited pictures.
As far as the value of the boat, yes you are right it is not monetary it is historical, you guys finally got my point! So don't use the words worthless anymore It could have outboards mounted on it and be rotted out and it would still be priceless. Also I would appreciate it if you remove the words moron, stupid and doesn't know what he's doing. This boat will get done correctly but as any project, 90% of the work is finding the correct parts, not just going out and buying new stuff, there is no challenge to that.
It might have sounded like I was going to put some turbine in it and leave it, I am sorry I didn't explain my thinking. I just wanted to get it out and show it to people and run it around. I thought if I got some exposure some more parts and info might show up. This will be a long term restoration to make it correct and collecting the right parts will be difficult, especially with this being a one only design. If anybody has some technical info or schematics or ideas where to get the correct parts I would be grateful.
No this boat has not gone to the scrap heap, it is alive and well and will be that way as long as I am alive. So if anybody wants to see it at the historical races, please help me with historical info and how to rig this boat, that is all I have ever asked.
Sorry for the posts that agitated people. I was trying to light a fire and wake some people up.
Pantera24 thanks for your posts, if you want a ride in my scabbed together boat I would be honored.

:nhl_fight: lets quit fighting and have some fun, Go find a boat to save!

OK I fixed it............................... I still think you should have reached out a little further. As a person myself who has taken on similar tasks, I felt that some how your defeat hit home, to me, as a last resort that I would'a should'a have avoided just for the sake of what is left of HERITAGE to THE SPORT....... We OK now ?

GO fix those Corvettes now. If you need a 427 BB I have thae correct SS motor for your year and a 396 from '69 numbers matching ( heads and block, etc ....... ) I was really bothered by the turn of events.

You may be misquided but probably not a MORON, so I removed that from my pervious rant ......... C YA, Bill

:daz:

Love me or hate me I could care less but I think some of you folks have gone off the reservation.
Basically “Air Time” called the man’s boat worthless a bunch of times (check post 125 of this thread) and now some has gone and piled on. Nice.
It’s his boat to do what he wants like some have said in a not so nice way. Do I think Jim is going to or has cut it up? Not a chance but that’s what some here has stated it’s worth if not done THEIR way. The man has bought turbine motors for it. I said TURBINES. Now that’s some serious money for some of us even if it’s not up to your standards. Just because they are not the right ones, “He’s wasting his time” is a bunch of BS. He saves the boat from becoming beer cans and if he is going to put a T6 or T96 turbine (I know nothing about turbines) in it watch the crap hit the fan.
Maybe he is looking for help on a few things. So what! God knows if I didn’t have a few folks helping me along with my old race boat it would still be sitting under a carport in a rundown marina where I found it and has sat for the last 25+ years waiting to be scraped.
So I say, Jim do what you want with the boat. Slap a couple outboards on it and turn it into a lobster boat for all I care (I do care and wish you wouldn’t but it‘s your boat). At least it’s not taking up landfill area. There is a hundred race boats out there that need good homes and no one seems to care about them. If someone picks up one then everyone comes out of the woodwork telling you how it needs to be done and if not it‘s crap. Before that it was good enough to let it rot in some yard. Funny how it works. Where were you all when it’s time to lay out the cash, take out the loan on your house to buy it or fight with the wife and everyone else on what a waste of money, time and space it is to save a “classic”?
As for worth. Sorry to tell some of you folks but a boat is only what someone will pay for it. I have a perfectly restores 1973 Monza19. Has about 2 hours on it since it was done. Cant give it away today. 3 years ago there would have been a bidding war on it. We all wonder about it. I hope my R/B will be worth more then I paid for it when done or it was just a bad deal period. It’s the holy grail for me and I would never get rid of it but even though it was a heart buy my brain wants to make sure wasn’t a stupid buy. Who can blame anyone for that? So I say ask away and if there is not another set your own price.

Last HORBA, I see that you all have races sponsored and such. When you going to update your website? (I say this with full respect of the gentleman that passed)

Tbird don’t sweat the motors. It’s the look that will do it for most. Very few people will know what came in it originally and unless you are talking to someone like yourself they will not know the difference of a “T” whatever turbine. “Look dad it has jet motors in it” is about what you are going to get. Also these boat were just vessels to run different motor packages in. Who knows what it had in it over the years? You don’t think they were to nostalgic back then do ya? They weren’t going to run 1966 stuff in it in 1972 that’s for sure. So who knows if it’s wrong and if it’s right for that matter. Hell I’m putting Chevy big blocks in mine in place of the Ford 427’s. I’ll get the right one’s one day but it’s not going to sit for another 25 years waiting on them. Also it’s going to give last years local boat show winner a run for it’s money this spring with it’s CBB’s.
Get it painted, drop a motor in and take it to the lake or whatever you go and draw a crowd. You can put seats in it later :drink:

Maybe I should have been involved in the thread sooner. I have been watching it since the very beginning, but you struck a chord in me when you said you cut it up.

I agree, it's your boat, finish it how you please. No matter how you do it some one will find something to nit pick. Srew 'em.

I figured this was a joke, but you got a pretty honest reaction from me.

What kind of airplanes are you into? I have been fortunate enough to spend a little time at the sticks of these beauties...

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...-party-211.jpg

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...-party-256.jpg

Boat Restoration
 

:coolcowboy:......ok now were talking.
Jim I sent you a private message.

Angel

Awesome post! thanks
PS If it makes you happy and feels good then keep it and enjoy it!

RT930
Thanks for the reply.
I new you were a good guy! A fellow pilot makes it better. I love antique aircraft, the stearman is a great plane and beach 18 is even better, one of my favorites just about bought one 3 wks ago. I have 12 planes in various stages and repair and flying. I have a cessna 195, cessna turbo 210, maule MX-7,m-20c mooney,cessna 182 RG,Grumman tiger, yak-55, one of the first apaches built,ect.
I rebuild planes for a living, I am a AP/IA. Love planes,cars,and boats,ect.

jolley
Thanks!
My car is a 68 camaro. Got it when I was in the navy. I ran across a guy whos dad just passed away. He has corvettes from 1954 up to 1999 and used them as daily drivers, he kept them all. They are for sale at pretty reasonable prices. They are high mileage cars. PM me if interested.
You have a great boat!
jim

:readinghelp:You guys are not going to believe this!
I just got off the phone with my brother.
I had heard that his boat had got stolen but that he got it back so I thought no big deal. Well he got it back minus the back third of the boat! They cut it off and took the engines and drives!!! This was a 36' Spectra with two 1575 hp 572's built by Howard Davis, this boat had been to 168 MPH!
The engines were painted yellow and had huge blowers with dual 1050 carbs.
Watch for these engines I am sure they will show up somewhere. I will see if I can get some pictures.
At least it was not a classic, it is replaceable and he had insurance.
I can't believe I put up a post about cutting up a boat and come to find out my brothers boat got cut up!
Unbelievable!!
Sorry about the earlier post I was frustrated after spending two weeks trying to get a deal together on those turbines and I had just gotten back from four days of living in my truck to get them.
Then to have someone tell me my efforts are worthless and I should sell my boat hit me way wrong.

Sorry to hear about your bros boat man.

We had a boat get torn up on rocks in a storm right in front of us and it can be a brutal ordeal.
You never realize how attached to a boat you can get.

Talked to Odell Lewis today, really enjoyed the visit!
He told me some very interesting things a about the boat. For one he told me about the dual set of throttle controls, one set controlled the percentage of throttle and the other set was used to throttle the engines.
The floor of the boat had a plywood bottom with 3" of foam and a layer of plywood on top.
The bottom of the boat also has a curve on the back 6 ft of the boat to counter the lifting action of the v-drives, kind of pulls the backend down.
The transmissions where 3 sp truck transmissions ( 7Xchamp says la salle transmissions) If they where lasalle transmissions that would be great, I have an extra set of those. Does anybody know for sure?
Apparently with the turbines in it they didn't need the ballast tank up front, at least Odell did not use it when racing. It would try to plow through the waves and then shoot up in the air.
Also the gas tanks hold about 250 gal. each.
7Xchamp on a earlier post you said it had lasalle transmissions, I can understand them being used, alot of circle track racers where using them in the 60's it was a very strong transmission. I want to use the right transmissions if possible. If anyone knows for sure please let me know.

Sounds good. Hope to see that bad boy in the water next year!

Angel

I just ran across a guy with several 427 side oilers as in 4 plus, he collected them in his younger years. Also has 406's, 3 deuce setup's ect. he has had them for years and wants to dump them. Just bought his 1972 ford pantera with 12,000 miles on it, paid less than you could buy a fender for it! I will keep you posted.

Please do. Here, ChineWalking.com or you should have my email.

Throttles
 

One set was for the engines. One was for the free turbines which. The engines ran into free turbines that were connected to the drive system. most modern versions of jet power are pulling the power right off of jet engine.

There were also a couple floor controls for braking the free turbines prior to shifting.

I have been trying to figure that out, somehow one set of throttles must have controlled the fuel and the other set must have controlled the governer's? Odell talked about the P&W guys turning up the goveners.

I just read this thread & think its pretty cool that you are taking on a challenge of that magnitude. I hope you are able to find everything you need to finish & would really like to see it when your done.