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Originally Posted by Randy Nielsen
(Post 3334574)
I just read this thread & think its pretty cool that you are taking on a challenge of that magnitude. I hope you are able to find everything you need to finish & would really like to see it when your done.
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Ill have to look & see if i can fit that into a trip to havazoo for the poker run in april, just a thought if you dont find any other color photos of the boat I wonder if someone could colorize pics you do have using the color pics that are in your thread as a model, might give an idea what it will look like imo
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Originally Posted by Randy Nielsen
(Post 3334649)
Ill have to look & see if i can fit that into a trip to havazoo for the poker run in april, just a thought if you dont find any other color photos of the boat I wonder if someone could colorize pics you do have using the color pics that are in your thread as a model, might give an idea what it will look like imo
Thanks for the idea on colorizing the black and white's, if I find any I will have that done. I wonder if they can do it with picture off the internet? |
Talk to Sharkey? If he cant do something maybe he can point you in the right direction
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Post # 72 a couple of pics from Top Banana (HORBA) a good view of the deck with some detail
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Thanks for the ideas!
Obviously the colors of the boat I can verify with the paint I have removed, I needed the shade of yellow from when it was Mona Luo 2 which I have from the gas cap and a few other spots having yellow on it and and the bare aluminum speaks for itself. The markings on the boat are what I am interested in verifying and any interior colors. I wish I could find some detailed pictures of the engine installation, that would help alot! |
Engine install
Originally Posted by 1965 thunderbird
(Post 3335926)
I wish I could find some detailed pictures of the engine installation, that would help alot!
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Originally Posted by Hornet Marine
(Post 3341307)
of the gas turbines or the big blocks? I can get you a few installation photos of the gas turbine install
My e-mai is [email protected] |
Wow! what a roller coaster ride :D i havent seen this thread in quite a while and decided to read it from the beginning last night. Great read till i hit post 129 :eek:, my heart stopped but i pressed on. Having been in the vintage restoration biz (pre war cars) for many years i can understand your frustration completely. Especially when dealing with a one of a kind and wanting to make it as (period) correct as possible. Good to see you were just illustrating a point. Jim we met several year ago at the first Bimini race, hope all goes well and i could tell by just chatting with you for that little bit that Thunderbird is in the right hands.
I have really enjoyed all the pics and historical info in this thread, cant wait to see it progress. |
Any new PICS! :drink:
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Gas Turbine Install Pictures
5 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by 1965 thunderbird
(Post 3341426)
Any pics of any kind would be greatly appreciated, especially pic's of the turbine engine install!
My e-mai is [email protected] |
more Gas Turbine pictures
2 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by 1965 thunderbird
(Post 3341426)
Any pics of any kind would be greatly appreciated, especially pic's of the turbine engine install!
My e-mai is [email protected] I have other stuff scattered about that I am trying to get organized. Somewhere I have a bunch of color slides of test runs |
Originally Posted by Hornet Marine
(Post 3342358)
a few more to come.
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What an awesome project I dig all the pics those guys were definitely having a blast keep up the good work
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Originally Posted by Hornet Marine
(Post 3342362)
If anyone looking to use these in print. I can give you the high resolution pictures.
I have other stuff scattered about that I am trying to get organized. Somewhere I have a bunch of color slides of test runs Do you have any that show the markings on the boat, I still don't know what the circle on the side and toward the back says, I know that it has to do with the P&W engines. I have been trying to figure out what kind of transmission that they used and there is a picture showing a transmission but I don't recognize it, anybody have any idea what it is? I don't think that it is a La salle transmission, they have a bottom access plate not a side plate like these do. Keep the pictures coming, these help tremendously. Thanks again! Glassdave, thanks for the vote of confidence! The real stumbling block has been trying to find the correct engines, if anyone has any leads please let me know. We now have excellent pictures to identify the engines, thanks to hornet marine. For those that don't know, Hornet Marine is owned and operated by Dave and Greg Hartman, the sons of the man who headed the install of the turbine engines in this boat. They have designed several new boats and will be marketing them soon, looks like they are quality boats and well thought out! Check em out, worth a look! |
some other info from the net
may allready have this but saw it and thought i would send it along
http://www.pt6nation.com/en/the-legend |
Originally Posted by scorpion 186
(Post 3343690)
may allready have this but saw it and thought i would send it along
http://www.pt6nation.com/en/the-legend According to that article the transmissions are out of a chevy truck. I imagine that they would be 3 speeds. I wish I knew for sure what they were, saw a partial picture of the transmission in Hartmans pictures he posted. Looked like a side shift trans so it would have to be a three speed if it was out of a truck. I was checking on the later model ST-6 APU out of the airliners and they are close to 900 hp, the original st-6's were 350-450 hp. It will take awhile to find the correct engines. |
I gotta say this is great that you are doing this restore and take all the time that you need to do it, huge amount of history right there.
Couldn't help but notice that in the back ground of Hornet Marine's last pic there is a cardboard box from 'united aircraft of Canada ltd.' (which is now known as Pratt and Whitney Canada) and it is labelled PT-6 gas turbine engine. Could it be from another project or for this boat? By chance have you tried contacting P&WC in Quebec? Not much of a chance that anybody will know anything there, but you never know there always seems to be long lost paper trails that are hidden in some dark storage room. Being that it certainly must have been one of the first turbine installs in a boat you would think they would have some record of it... |
Thanks for the heads up on the P&W in Canada. I have actually talked to a person that works there and he sent me a video of the boat in an old ad, it was a copy of a copy and was poor quality but did show the thunderbird as it passed up brave moppie and seafury just before moppie sunk.
I think that the box you see in the background is the shipping box for the ST-6's, was just marked PT-6. Dave I was wondering which person was your dad and if you know any of the other people in the pictures. It sure would be nice to talk to someone who was actually in on the install of these engines. I don't imagine there is much of a chance to find one of these guys but it is worth a try. thanks |
1965 thunderbird
saw this link about this guy apperantly has published a book or papers about turbine driven jet propulsion for a boat maybe worth contacting him. good luck with the restoration.
http://www.seacoaster.com/Resume.htm |
[QUOTE=scorpion 186;3349299]saw this link about this guy apperantly has published a book or papers about turbine driven jet propulsion for a boat maybe worth contacting him. good luck with the restoration.
I read his articles and he sounded like he knew a lot about turbines so I e-mailed but I haven't heard back from him yet. I sure would have liked to talk to him. Thanks for the lead! |
I have been trying to get in touch Gloria Wynne and have not had much luck. Does anyone have her contact info? Please PM me with the info.
thanks! |
Any updates??? :coolcowboy:
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I have not had a chance to work on it, but I have been able to gather more parts. I have bought two transmissions and some parts for the speed increaser, I have to go from 2200 rpm output speed to 3300 propshaft speed.
I have been real busy with rebuilding airplanes and I am my only employee so it has been slowing down the progress on the boat.:( By the end of the month I should be caught up a little bit and will be able to dedicate some time to the thunderbird. I am hoping to be able to attend the OFF 2011,:cheer: I am looking forward to meeting and talking to legends of offshore racing! I would like to bring my boat down there, but I better use the money to buy parts and maybe hire some help. I am out in the middle of no where and it is hard to find good mechanics. I will be moving the thunderbird into the main shop soon to remove the gas engines, that might give me a little boost to get this thing done! I think that when I get started on it this time I won't stop until it is done. I have to get my drag car done this week so I can race sat., won pro class last race with my other car what great feeling! I want to run super pro ( low 9's) this race and let my son run my other car, should be fun! Anyway I have been learning alot more about offshore boats and might be able to talk intelligently about them someday. It is kind of surprising how much airplanes and boats have in common ( weights , balance's ,props ,some boats fly, hulls are like wings, ect.), it has been quite the learning experience! |
Originally Posted by 1965 thunderbird
(Post 3378259)
I have been trying to get in touch Gloria Wynne and have not had much luck. Does anyone have her contact info? Please PM me with the info.
thanks! Anyway I think that I am pretty well committed to going to OFF 2011, sounds like too much fun to miss. |
Thanks for the update! Take some pics when you get it back in the shop and start the teardown. This is one of my favorite projects on OSO. Good luck!
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Am sure everyone will enjoy OFF program, I spoke with Odell Lewis who I am sure will be able to help with your restoration questions,,,,,,,, Odell is 1 of Offshore racing treasures,,,, When we lose him we have elected to have him bronzed, so we can wheel him into the party
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Originally Posted by 1965 thunderbird
(Post 3481011)
I talked to Sharon Wynne a while back, she is a very interesting person. Sounded like Jim was quite a hand full, I guess he had some girlfriends around. Sharon has a scrapbook that one of them made up, it is very large. I have told her about OFF 2011 and suggested that she brings the scrap book, I think that would be quite q hit!
Anyway I think that I am pretty well committed to going to OFF 2011, sounds like too much fun to miss. |
Originally Posted by fastdonzi
(Post 3482521)
The guy worked with Don Aronow & Brownie, Of Course he had some girlfriends around. IDK how they ever got a boat finished :)
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That is a awesome video, thanks! It gives me more incentive to get this boat going again. I have been working on it for the last three days and have the engines removed and the interior floor is removed also. I can see where the original floor should go and where the original decking around the engine compartment should be. I am thinking that it will be pretty easy to reinstall the original decking around the engine compartment since I still have the original exhaust stacks for the turbines and the mounting holes are still there. I have a lot of wiring to remove plus the instrument panel has to be redone. I am going to keep busy on it for a while and see how far I get. I have been taking pictures but I don't remember how to put them on here. My son showed me but he is in college now, next time he is home I will try to get him to help.
thanks! |
Originally Posted by 1965 thunderbird
(Post 3489754)
That is a awesome video, thanks! It gives me more incentive to get this boat going again. I have been working on it for the last three days and have the engines removed and the interior floor is removed also. I can see where the original floor should go and where the original decking around the engine compartment should be. I am thinking that it will be pretty easy to reinstall the original decking around the engine compartment since I still have the original exhaust stacks for the turbines and the mounting holes are still there. I have a lot of wiring to remove plus the instrument panel has to be redone. I am going to keep busy on it for a while and see how far I get. I have been taking pictures but I don't remember how to put them on here. My son showed me but he is in college now, next time he is home I will try to get him to help.
thanks! [email protected] |
Originally Posted by 7xchamp
(Post 2318418)
Congratulations on your historical find: I have some personal history I will share with you re: the Turbine boat.
I am a former member of the Mercury factory Offshore team, out of Lake X, I was 19 yrs old when I was assigned my first boat to race by Mr. K. The story is that Mr. K. used to invite the race team up to Fond du lac for a barbeque from time to time, and he would parade us through the factory as his boys, including Odell Lewis, Mel Riggs etc. When at the barbeque at his house we would ride his motorcycles around his property, on rare occasions he would fire up the famous Chrysler 300 stock car that he kept in his garage, and tell us all the stories of his adventures in life. To say the least I was aw struck just to be in his presence, as I am sure everyone was, He eventually became like a step dad to me, and I am beholding to him for evrything he gave to me. As part of this barbecue we went to the boathouse and rode a few boats that were there at the time, one was a four engine houseboat without the house, the other was the turbine boat which was Mona Lou at the time. About 8 of us piled in the open cockpit, and with the old man driving chewing on a cigar we were off on the ride of my life, naturally Odell was beside him to help. The startup was very cool. I remember it had two sets of throttles, and two brake peddles on the bulkhead, as well as two automobile shift levers. I was told the shift levers were for two Lasalle transmissions, and that they used high gear forward and reverse for reversing. The brake peddles were for Braking the first stage of the turbine to enable shifting. The whole procdure was exciting to say the least, docking was pretty tricky with both motors running, brakeing shifting etc. while the turbines are screaming away. When we went on plane mr. K. used one set of throttles, then when up he left the first set wide open and then opened up the second set. I think we topped out at around 75 mph. which in the late sixties was pretty respectable. WHAT A RIDE!!!!!! I will always remember it as one of my most treasured. The motors were Pratt and Witney I think around 600 or 650hp. I remember at one of the Calif. races evryone protested the boat, so Mr. K. called in the engineers from Pratt which was close by and said detune the motors to 450hp, they did and were allowed to race, where she then kicked their butts again and won. I think it was one of the last races she did, as she was eventually outlawed on the circuit. I wish someone would step-up and help you restore her to original, I will be more than happy to help on the engineering side, and Odell Lewis is still around, and I`m sure could still give her a run. Enjoy her and good luck with her, she is a proud old girl. I don`t know if you knew but Jim Wynn built her and raced her then Mr. K bought her. Mr. K loved turbines and special types of motors, I drove one of the first Wankel powered Mazdas from Calif. to Fondulac for him when they first came to america, I think he bought the first five cars, He tore the motors apart, and was figuring how to adapt them for marine use, that`s another story. 7XCHAMP Richie |
ALL OF THIS IS COOL AS HELL!
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I got all of the gauges and excess wiring removed. Removed the steering wheel and the instrument panel, I am down to the original panel and the bilge area is down to mostly original configuration. I am going to power wash the inside of the boat and see how well it cleans up. Anybody know how to get contact cement off? I am hoping the steam cleaner has some effect on it.
Had fun last weekend at the dragstrip, won pro class for the second time in a row. I think it was a little more luck than skill but the car ran great! If everything goes right I might be able to start mocking up the engine mounts tomorrow. Those engines that I took out weighed alot, this boat is so much lighter it is unreal! The turbine only weighs 400 lbs and the crash boxs are light also. I bet this turbine conversion will only add 600lbs. I bet those chevy big blocks with the turbo charges and transmissions weighed in at 1800 to 2000 lbs each, anybody have a better guess than that? I also found out that the engines I removed were LS-7 454s, 12.5 compression with a solid lifter cam. They were pretty wild motors for the 70's. Looks like they are in real good shape, of course with the turbo charges the compression ratio was changed along with the cam. I have a nice 6-71 blower that would work good on one of them, but I would have to find a good project to put it in also. |
WOW! You have your work cut out for there.
Contact - Try some adhesive remover from Home Depot. |
Had some adhesive remover from NAPA and some from walmart, neither one touched it. I am going to try some good paint remover. Steam cleaned the bilge area, looks alot better but I have been on my hands and knees with scotch brite and solvent. When I am done with that, hopefully sometime tomorrow I will set the turbine in and see what I need to do to mount it. Looks like the dimensions are about the same as a ST-6. I took another 4-500 lbs out of the boat, there was some spares for the 454's in a locker and the bolsters had to be 100 lbs each. I am going to try and replicate the original cockpit from 1966. If anybody has some good pictures of the cockpit I sure could use them.
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Paint remover worked good! Scrubbed some more on the bilge, looks pretty good, Set the turbine in the boat and it looks like it will fit just as I planed. Will start working on the engine mounts tomorrow, should be pretty straight forward. I will have to stop working on it by monday, I have to repair my rental houses after the hail storm. One house got the roof ,siding, garage doors, airconditioners, and some windows. It was some big hail!
If I can get the turbine mounted then I can get some things ordered for the drive system and instrumentation. |
Took some more pics, stripped the paint off the exhaust for the turbines and set it back on the boat. It still has the engine turning on it and looks pretty good!
Set the turbine inside the boat and mocked up the positions for the transmissions and the drive system. |
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