Apache Cats
 

As there is an ongoing thread about how many Cig 35's there were produced - could we also confirm how many Apache cats were produced??

To start:-
Are these all the same hull?

Looking at the hull/deck shape did the US1 hull become Wildcat?
Also did the Team Apache Kramer hull become the Walter Regazzi Loro Piana?

And where do the Fassa/Samsonite hulls fit in? (presumably the same hull).

I am pretty sure that the red and white boat was a wood composite boat....

Also the were the Canada Homes and the Labatt's boat as well. The later is now raced here in the states as Warpaint.

Ryan - well remembered!

The original Apache Cat (96) was an all wood boat built by OPC tunnel boat builder, John McCall, from a Mike Peters design (with heavy McCall influence). That boat became Loro Piano. I believe it was bigger than the later fiberglass versions. The later boats were all fiberglass. I think US1 became Wildcat. Canada Homes was another hull, and I have no idea if Fassa Samsonite was bought new or was either Wildcat or US1 prior to being shipped overseas.

T2x

As I was somewhat involved with the first glass Apache cat, I will give my input. Canada Homes owned by Lorne Liebel and throttled by Bobby Idoni. This to my knwledge was the first glass/kevlar Apache cat, I`m not sure where or what wildcat was???? wood glass or what, I believe the wildcat was purchased by the japanese and either Idoni or Smitty ran it there. As for Canada homes the boat was rigged by Bobby Moore, imediatley after it was rigged Idoni brought the boat to my shop ( Champion Marine ) to have some final tricks done to it, and some special Richie touches, I could write a book about. Anyway the boats first race was Marathon in the Keys, I went down to watch as I was with out a ride, I think it was 1981 or 2. Bobby and I tested the boat togeteher. Next thing I know I am being asked by crew chief Tommy if I would be available to run in the boat, as Lornes father had fallen ill and Lorne may not be able to make the race, which was the boats very first race, I said yes but I would throttle and Bobby would drive. Lorne did not make it so Bobby and I ran the race. Jesse James was back for the first time since their accident with the brother driving, Lanier and Kaiser were there in the systems boat along with Budweiser etc. lots of boats in the class. From the start it was Kaiser and us at 110mph plus with Kaiser just in front, we were running next to Jesse James when they flipped over, we slowed to a stop and were ready to jump in for them when we got thumbs up from both, Bobby and I looked at each other, like what do we do go or go back, we went for it, caught Kaiser on the last lap and drag raced full out to the finish, they beat us by approx. 5 seconds for the win. We were awarded the sportsmanship trophy etc. it was a great race, and we almost got it.
I`m not sure where that boat ended up, eventually it became LaBatts with Idoni and Liebel. The last Apache you see in the pictures with the full cabin was new and built by Jack Stuteville, supposed to be super light, Jack ran with Lorne in a few races, but never performed very well, I think the boat sat for awhile then Lorne went racing again, I think he ran all different classes with her, and I see she is still running. So there is three of the boats that I know of. 7XCHAMP

Richie, this would have been 1987 or 1988.........

Richie:

The JJ flip was in 1987 in Marathon. I have it on one of our videos and I had the dubious pleasure of flying over it when the accident happened.
Wildcat was an all fibreglass Apache cat.

The only wooden one was the first hull.

T2x

Fassa/Samsonite of Dall'Oglio was the former Canadas Home Challenge of Lorne Liebel-Bob Idoni.

I t was definitely fibreglass. I have a video showing the Mercury powered Wildcat winning the '93 Atami Ocean Cup. The boat was in mint condition and was campaigned by an entirely Japanese team. Don't know what happened to that boat later. The Wildcat team switched to a 40' Skater.

T2x: You are correct. Thanks and Happy Holidays to you all.
7XCHAMP

Right back at ya...champ!

T2x

Hey, T2x, You mentioned in a previous thread about "Black Duck" being the winningest offshore boat. I am fixing to write a story about George Hertel and "Fever", the B-class v-bottom. I don't wnat to make a mistake. Could you give me a total on the B.D? I'll talk to George next week while I am Christmassing in the Keys. We'll compare notes before I print more lies. Merry Christmas and very best wishes to you and Darren.

AB

I always thought the Apache cat was from a Maelstrom cat, also the Wild Cat I was told was a glass hull with a wood deck, not sure how much was true but I remember checking it out years back at Ocean Express.

There is another one forsale here in MI. www.apachecat.com

That's a tough one because you have identified the "other" winningest boat...etc.

Fever campaigned for years and won consistently, but not always in National classes, and I don't believe it won any World Championships (not sure about National's either). Black Duck won multiple World and National titles and always in National classes. In addition George Hertel only campaigned Fever for a small part of its career, Joe Sgro had the most success with it, but again, mostly in the Sportsman classes.
In all honesty it's probably a toss up, and at the very least Black Duck leads the all time Cat list.

I'll see what records I have on B.D. so you can be precise.

Merry Christmas to you and all the women in South Florida....at least the attractive ones.:D

T2x

Both the two original wood Maelstroms and the Apache Cat were constructed by John McCall and I believe designed by Mike Peters, but they were three separate hulls and three separate lengths.

T2x

Is this one http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/6/81323626.htm

Was on this Cat last May at a marina on the Clinton River. It was ready to splash. Nice updates and primo trailer. For a cat-lover probably worth a look...

Apache Cats
 

Cat 1
Team Apache 85-87
Fresh & Clean 87
Loro Piana 88-89
Reggiani Illumnazione 90

Cat 2
Wildcat 87

Cat 3
Canada Homes 88
Samsonite 90
Fassa 91-92
Chesterfield 94

Cat 4
Labatt 93-95
Drambuie 00
Warpaint 04,06-07

Not sure how Apache US1 (White) fits in to all this.Step up on to centre stage Inspector Marco and highlight those magnified detail shots to solve the case.

Chesterfield
 

1994 Chesterfield-A.Dall`Oglio

Yes, Thats the one it's been sitting up there for a few years.

Graham, your list of Apache cats seems to be precise and complete.:cool-smiley-011:

But the cat with which Kramers and Saccenti had the serious crash not almost destroyed was?

Apache Us1
 

Hi Inspector Marco,

Not sure what you are saying re the white Apache cat US1.

When did it race and was it written off.

It`s my understanding the red/white cat had the bad accident.

By the way I know it`s not part of this post but I think you have been chasing the two photos attached.

Thanks for coming up trumps Fish. And those last two shots are cracking! I'll have to enhance them and post them on the appropriate threads!

Oh my Doctor!
You have done me the more beautiful post-Christmas gift(the best Christmas gift she has given for me my wife, giving the our second son, Valerio)!
I have so many photos of Natural Light and of a Dante's Inferno but not in color decent like that!

About the Apache cat in the accident I think was the wodden one red and white that you think became the Ragazzi's Fresh & Clean-Loro Piana. Not the white one that I think was,like the Wildcat and the Canada Home-Samsonite, built in fiberglass.

Could really use the help and knowlege of Black Tornado, flying fish and littlenige (and anyone else) here.

http://www.proprider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347

My corrections about the flying fish list of Apache cats for competitions.

Cat 1 - Apache/Maelstrom 41' - built on wood
#96-Team Apache '85-'86
#8-Fresh & Clean '87
#8-Loro Piana '88-'89
#67-Reggiani Illumnazione '90

Cat 2 - Apache 38' - built on fiberglass/Kevlar?
#US-1 -Apache early races only '87

Cat 3? - Apache 38' - built on fiberglass/Kevlar? - maybe former #US-1-Apache
#14-Wildcat '87

Cat 4? - Apache 38' - built on fiberglass/Kevlar?
#66-Canada Homes '88
#38-Samsonite '90
#38-Fassa '91-'92
#19-Chesterfield '94

Cat 5? Apache 38' - built on fiberglass/Kevlar?
#US-1/77/80-Labatt 93-95
#4-Drambuie 00
#4-Warpaint 04,06-07

Big job and some interesting pics with a complete panorama of the last eighties and first of nineties.:cool:

Here the first Apache cat; Team Apache for Ben kramer and Bob Saccenti,built in 1985. Here in a shot in 1986 Northport 200 won by Kramer.
The second shot in the debut in Italy of the new boat for Walter Ragazzi in september 1987.

Photo of three Apaches 38' that they could treat instead of the same boat.....

that one in mich,looks like an updated ''active cat from the 70's-80's?

Apache Us1
 

Going into `Black Tornado` mode and armed with my oracle,a few facts emerge.
Marathon Apr 25 87 reports states debut for new 38ft Apache for Kramer.
New Orleans Jun 6 87 first race for new 38ft Apache Wildcat.
Cannes May 3 87 first race for 41ft Apache Fresh & Clean (ex-Team Apache)
Marathon Apr 30 88 first race for new 38ft Apache Canada Homes.

So from the above it looks like 41FT Team Apache went to Italy for start of 87 season.Kramer then had new 38ft Apache,presumably the white one.Gets flung into jail,and the boat is either beached of maybe becomes Wildcat,but the deck /coachroof doesn`t match.One month to change all this seems a bit much.Yet to be convinced.As reported earlier in post Canada Homes is a new boat for 88.
Time to lie down in a darkened room Marco.

theres 2 in michigan, there 2 that were created for a div called interforce they were made for the police in dubi, one had a molded wind screen, one has a plexi window same as kid apache yep theres 3 or 4 of us fools, there not that fast 100 mph but the ride is better than anything on the water, and youl never get passed by yourself.

Apache Us1
 

Doc Graham,I have only two photos of the white Apache 38’ and in the darkened room I have not succeeded in seeing that deck it has(the white boats make the life hard to the inspectors to recognize the particular ones).
However It could be equal deck to that of Wildcat without having to resort to hasty changes in 30 days.
To Cannes in the 1987 runs a new 41' Fresh & Clean for Walter Ragazzi but it was the new mono tin boat built in Italy on Apache license.
The 41' cat in wood it made his first race to Marciana Marina race in September. I was there.

Fresh & Clean 87
 

So the jury is out on the Apache US 1/Wildcat case.

Trawling through the 87 records again I see W.Ragazzi raced
a cat in Venezia ( a Lucini perhaps) with as you say the Stain mono for the other races, until the Apache cat debut.

See what trouble you cause Nigel,sitting there in your Spanish Villa while us anoraks slug it out.

Fresh & Clean 87
 

Graham,You have thought correct for the cat used by Ragazzi in the Venice's lagoon in the 1987.
It dealt with the old cat that Walter made to build from Lucini after he had seen to the 1984's worlds of Viareggio the new cat Cougar of Gentry with central cockpit.
With the offshore an endless series of new investigations always instigates.
Nigel st on the beaches of his sunny Marbella waiting for our searches in the darkened rooms while out it is snowing or it rains....

Not so much the sun of Marbella - too pretentious down there by far! Thanks for both of your efforts in solving the mysteries of the Apache cats. And some new pictures being released, slowly but surely ....... Marco you will have to create a library of your own over on Boatmad alongside mine and Graham's. we all want to see your pics!!

Prospero Año Nuevo one and all!

nash man, show up- sign up and ride, bring the wright amount $ and a hitch you can take it away ill throw in snow tires.