84 Formula 402
 

What do you guys have to say about this boat? http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifi...o38391-en.html
To be honest I really don't know much about Formulas of this vintage, I saw it for quite a while on CL then here; I've herd that it's a wet noodle, a slow log, needs a ton of HP to move it, ect... Lets say someone didnt want to go pound OS with it, could it be a diecent day on the water? P.S. I really like the old skool look so the interior doesnt bother me as much as it totally horrifies some of you.... I really like to hear peoples opinions of the model and if you know this particular boat chime in please... Thanks.

I don't know that particular boat, but I do like those big 402's. Tons of space, and they are wave crushers. It will take tons of HP to make it move, but if you are okay with going 55 MPH they are great boats.

I think the interior is neat. Reminds me of an old Lear Jet.

Formulas are well built boats, but like any 26 year old boat, it is bound to have some moisture in it.

Good Luck!

402
 

ive had many formulas 292sr1,357sr1,402 they are great boats that handle like cadillacs,so that being said if youre not looking to win any races this boat will make you happy. if i time it gets too slow for you a couple of 540 cid motors will fix that.& i can build them for you.

It just so happen the interior WAS designed by the same company that did the Lear jets...!!! I loved the one I had...
you never had to worry about the wave heights!!

That is a great-looking old school boat - especially with that black/red/white color scheme. Still would turn heads - looks to be in nice shape, too - at least from am appearance perspective.

I'm good for @ 50mph with stock 502efi mags! Almost 2 miles to the gallon too.

Yeah, I'm really into the vintage gelcoat of the late mid 70's to the early 80's classic. The lines on that boat are beautiful.

it's a big boat...!!!

Contact Mild Thunder on here. Not only did he have one, but that one in particular was parked right next to his when he bought it. The interior on that boat just freakin' rules. Wet bar, swivel chairs, crystal decanters...they don't make em like that anymore!!! We used to call Joe's The Regal Beagle.

What he said. Classic old school panty dropper:evilb:

I seen it in person, was a pretty clean boat for its age. You cant go wrong dealing with the crew at shogrens either.

That boat had blowers at one time. Small ones. I believe it to have ran around 65MPH with about 550-575HP per side. Yes, they are tanks. Mine was a weird 402. The drive height was pretty high, and seemed to be a lighter layup than that particular one you are looking at. With small 600HP blower motors, I could get 69-70GPS almost anytime. Magic Medicine and sommer can attest. Formula builds a great boat, however, these boats were made to be a 55MPH express cruiser in my opinion. Lots of cabinetry, accessories, etc. If your a guy who likes to run hard in rough water, the 402 will be a plush ride, but you will be breaking stuff. If you cruise like a gentleman, no worries.

Cabin is very roomy, that boat is all DECK. Cockpit is shallow, so it can be a windy ride. One thing Formula should have done, and did not do back then, was glass the deck and hull together. They simply glued and screwed the deck to the hull. Overtime, the deck joint becomes sloppy, and you will get lots of flexing in the deck. But like i said, express cruiser, not offshore race boat.

All in all, a great looking, comfortable boat, that is great for overnighting. I imagine that in the early 80's, if you were tooling around in one of these, you had your $hit together and were a big time PLAYBOY. 40'2" without a swim platform, 9'3" wide beam, and crystal liquor decantors, you were swingin it in a big way. :drink:

Don't forget the cocaine! :)

I will always maintain that the 402 was the best design that John Adams ever came up with. The low profile, long deck, and wide stance remains unique. The interior is more plush than any being made today. I don't understand why manufactures universally abandoned velour, teak, burl wood, and thick carpet in the cabin. The Morse controls are still my favorite, and I would happily choose them over the standard zero effort configuration common today.

A pair of healthy, naturally aspirated 540s would nudge the speed of a 402 up to the low 70s, which is plenty in this type of boat.

Boats of this sort will never again be produced.

They were well built, unique, and very comfortable.

Certainly, they couldn't achieve the speeds that are possible today, but I'd take any one of them over today's offerings.


Several years ago, I asked Formula about the possibility of making some new boats from the old molds. They informed me that the molds and tooling for all SR-1s were destroyed, and weren't too keen on any further discussion of the subject. I found them more than willing to discuss the new FAS3tech hull design and how superior it is, etc.


A 402 is more of an express cruiser, but once you're on the water, whats the hurry?

Mild Thunder and JP-8, what you discusses is pretty much what I was thinkin + more. JP-8, you really hit the nail on the head with "they don't make um like they use to"! I really like the profile of the windshield to the deck and it would make a great family river cruiser! I really love the old Cig flat decks and Mistresses interiors with all the bright work; even the molded, rounded upholstery was perfect. And the paint/gel coat now adays is totally bogus way to out of this world to be classic and classy... That boat must have been loved.

The current state of the boating industry lacks the direction and innovation it once had. In years past, the designs were elegant, simple, yet refined and unique. Now it would appear that gaudy graphics and an unreasonable amount of horsepower are the highest priorities. Very frustrating.

Cigarette's 35 Mistress and later Flatdeck 38 S/SE models were some of their finest efforts. I don't approve of the direction that the company has taken, but the rest of them really aren't fairing much better.

Indeed, these older boats are largely under-appreciated. You often hear of folks buying old offshore boats to tide them over until they are able to get themselves deeper in debt with something newer or faster, only to miss the old boat later on.

"Wave crusher" is an oft-used term when waxing nostalgic about an older boat, but is scarcely mentioned when describing the characteristics of newer boats.


Bill Farmer's Excaliburs were some of the best boats ever made. The 40 Hawk is such a marvelous boat. A really timeless classic.

Chris-Craft's Stinger 390X is another favorite. Again, timeless.

The only company that Aronow started which has been able to maintain its original sense of individuality is Magnum Marine. Katrin Theodoli has done a remarkable job in keeping the company from breaking down and conforming to the latest industry fads such as stepped hulls, reversed transoms, etc. They are the ultimate and a tough act to follow.

There are other old school companies that hold fast to their roots such as Sutphen, Superboat, and more recently, Banana Boat Co.

Too many have gone under; Challenger, Carerra, Signature, Bertram's 38 competition was an especially interesting design that would have worked well as a production model.

As far as truly original designs go; Progression builds first class boats with that same tried-and-true simplicity of old. They get it.

Even the cabin cruiser and motoryacht industries don't know any better than to churn out soulless, floating Clorox bottles. Have a look at an old Burger, Ed Monk, Trumpy, or Elco yacht from way back. Pure class, built to last.

As a rule, my next boat will be at least 20 years old. A 402 would fit the bill nicely, just a tad impractical at present.

I've always been in the minority when it comes to my boat preferences. It is nice to know that I'm not the only one.

I also owned a Bill Farmer 1982 Excalibur Hawk. It was a great boat. Well built. In my opinion, better built than the 402. The Formula, was about a foot longer, had a 24 Deg hull, so it rode a little nicer. The excalibur had a 22 Degree hull. The Formula beam was 9'3", the excalibur was 9'.

The Formula was fancier in the cabin, and the cabin was larger. However, the Formula slept 2. The excalibur could sleep 4.

Didn't know the Hawk was a 22 degree hull. It would be interesting to find out what ever became of the molds.

It's unfortunate that Formula never did glass the deck to the hull on any of their boats.

I would imagine that your 38 Fever is the fastest boat of the bunch.

How do you like it compared to the 402 and Hawk?

Those Speedmaster drives must be a welcome change from the TRS.

I get it...
 

"Several years ago, I asked Formula about the possibility of making some new boats from the old molds. They informed me that the molds and tooling for all SR-1s were destroyed, and weren't too keen on any further discussion of the subject. I found them more than willing to discuss the new FAS3tech hull design and how superior it is, etc"

I..like you am a fan of the classic Formula/Cigarette/Donzi/Magnum design. I think the Porters would do very well to create a "Heritage" line of Formulas to capture the "old school" market.

Any time I have my 255 out I always have 2 or more guys walk up to me wanting to know all about it. I hear many times guys say that if they find the right one that they would "do" a late 70's ~ early '80's Formula...anything with an angled windshield...pre-87.

I look at that 402 and get goose bumps....reminds me of trolling for whores at Shooters in 'Lauderdale back in the'80s.:evilb:

Don't get me wrong...much of the new stuff is great...I just think what we are getting now is a continued "pussification" of the classic offshore powerboat.:evilb:

Could be my favorite all time word EVER!!!!!:evilb::drink:

If Formula were ever to release a heritage line, complete with original graphics, I wouldn't be able to write the check fast enough.

The 255 Liberator is another shining example of the superior design characteristics from late the 70's. It is an ageless look. The 233 is another great looking, practical boat.

I experienced the same thing with my 311. People just couldn't get over the fact that it wasn't made in 2003.

That 402 is worth every penny of the asking price.

A vintage boat really stands out these days among the rather mediocre selection commonly seen today. Seems everyone is trying to see who can paint the loudest graphics.

The new technology is great. I can only imagine how well it would blend with an old hull design.

Almost makes me want to start my own factory and show 'em how it's done.

"Almost makes me want to start my own factory and show 'em how it's done."

That's how great ideas are conceived...let's see...

Heritage Offshore...Capturing the spirit of the Classic '70's~'80's Deep V American Offshore Power Boat....

...Reggie Fountain

I like it!!:evilb:

They got it right with this one...
 

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...5Liberator.jpg[/IMG]

Great boat, looks like my sons that he got from me!!

Were the economy not in such ruins, I really would give serious consideration to starting up a small factory. I wouldn't want to saturate the market like Fountain has, but I think I could make a successful venture of it. I have even sketched some of my own designs just for the heck of it.




They most certainly did get it right. Spot on, in fact.

There's just no good reason not to make more boats like the 255. It looks so striking in yellow. The black stripes accent the lines of the hull and deck perfectly. Love the wood steering wheels in those 70's boats. That's something I'd bring back. Teak just belongs on a boat.

I really do think T-Bird Formula hit out of the park for about ten years '76~'86...as well as Cigarette with the Mistress and Cafe Racer. I can spot the profile of these or clones from a mile away....along with the Scarabs and of course Apaches.

I think Donzi did a heritage edition of the 18 foot and was a big hit.

Banana Boat is on the right track and just needs a recognition kick in the pants to be a big winner I think.

JP...stay on top of this because with the interest this could generate...you might hit the market during a paradigm shift that could prove to be very lucrative. I think the demand is there...marketing and pricing has to be on target. There are plenty of us boomers out here that know what we like and know how to go get it.

Formula really had a great thing going. The model selection was diverse, and there was pretty much a boat to fit every budget. I imagine that it was a handful to manage, but they kept it going right up until the end of the 80's.

Donzi is doing the right thing in keeping their Classic line in production. These are, after all, the original bread and butter of the brand. They still run just as good today as they did in the 60's. Better even with the newer drive technology. Don't care much for the ZR line, though.

Always thought that if the Donzi 22 Classic were stretched out to say... 40 feet, and widened a bit, the result would be one remarkable boat.

Banana Boat stayed true to the Aronow ideal of boat building. If I were to start up a boat factory, I'd try to do the same.

I certainly will stay on top of the idea. I agree that there exists a distinct (and lucrative) possibility for the market to shift in the appropriate direction to facilitate these aspirations. If by some miracle, those conditions do arise, I'll be well-postured to take advantage of them. I've done a great deal of the homework as a sort of hobby, and have more than a few improvements in everything from hull design to drive innovations that are quite patent-worthy.

Naturally, I'd want to be involved with racing. It is by far the ultimate proving ground, and can be written off as R&D.

Don Aronow was successful at boat building because he knew how to assemble the right group of individuals to attend to every aspect of the boat building process. I'd do the same.

Whether it ever happens or not, I still plan to build some scale models of my designs and rig them for remote control, just to see how well they would work.

The Excalibur Hawk 40 was the same mold as the 39 Chris Craft Stinger.

As for my Fountain compared to them, obviously its a much faster boat. With the same engines that were in the 402, mounted in the 38 Fever, the fountain is 10-12MPH faster. The gap would be larger I think as the horsepower increases. Believe it or not, the Fountain is a more solid feeling boat. The Fountain obviously will air out more in rough water, but the boat is a blast to drive. Which I like. I guess it can be like comparing a 60's chevy biscayne with a big block, vs. driving a corvette with the same big block. While the biscayne would make a comfortable cruiser with some nice power under your foot, the corvette is faster, handles better, and more fun to drive hard. The ssm drives really make the fountain special. If it was a TRS or a Bravo boat, I wouldnt be as happy as i am. Nothing like swinging big 18" cleaver props, and a drive actually built to handle some power. There are alot of Fountain haters out there, which I never really understood. There are alot of older Reggie boats by me on lake michigan. Most have been run hard thru the years. Never heard of any of them cracking, delaminating, almost sinking, etc. Which is more than i can say about some of the other brands. Probably a reason that most people that own a Fountain, sell theirs to get into another Fountain. I would be one of them. In a few years, I wouldnt mind getting into a straight bottom 42.

I do kind of miss my excalibur Hawk. It was a nice older boat, but in need of a restoration. It would have been a cool boat to restore. It had Teak cockpit flooring, and a classic design. I believe a total makeover and converting it to a SSM setup would have made for a nice big water boat. I think with some 750HP mills, low 80's speed wise would have been attainable. Probably a slightly faster hull than a 38 Flatdeck Cigarette from that era. Keep in mind, Excaliburs were the hulls that Fountain got their start from. I believe Reggie to have been close to Bill Farmer, and I am sure he used some of the building techniques from Bill.

I sold my 402 without motors last year. It was completely rigged, just no engines, trannys, or headers. Sat on a triple axle steel trailer. Boat was clean. Best I could get for it was 13,500. Had it listed everywhere. Finally it sold on ebay. I actually saw it on ebay a few months back. The guy put some carb 502's in it, and was trying to get upper 20's for it. It was up for sale quite a bit. The boat had a/c, generator, hyd steering, tubular swim platform, autometer gauges, etc.

Personally if I were in the market to spend 50k, I would go for a older Top Gun, 40-42 Fountain. Either of those are awesome machines, and make a excellent Foundation for a killer offshore boat.

Good Post, and your right on, I had the excalibur hawk, and have a bit of time in a 38 fountain. I have been a passenger in a triple 42 for years, The 42 with trips is the closest thing I have experienced to feel of the big excalibur in the rough stuff, except that 42 fountain still handles and feels like the vette. Im confident that older 42 could handle some serious water. I ran to the bahamas in a 38 fountain in some moderately heavy water, and I must say I was completely impressed, it felt solid and flew straight. I know its the boat people love to hate, but I think alot of it is because they do so well against much more expensive boats.

"Personally if I were in the market to spend 50k, I would go for a older Top Gun, 40-42 Fountain. Either of those are awesome machines, and make a excellent Foundation for a killer offshore boat."

I agree...but then I start thinking....$30K more and maybe I can get into this...

http://www.yachtauctions.com/listing.php?vessel=6282

...very serious offshore player.

I am doing some contracting work there and I wonder if I offered $50K if they would take it ?....you never know.

An excellent comparison, MT.

The old 10 and 12 meter fountains are amongst my favorites. I have seen a fair amount of them rigged with IIIAs or IVs, and would definitely consider one. This is a fine specimen

It almost looks like the center exhaust manifolds are touching. I've noticed this on a few other Fountains of this vintage. The engines must be mounted closer to the center line than other boats. Seems like it would be a bit tricky to get at the plugs.

Ever deal with them guys,don't trust them.They don't tell the truth.

Wise words and I hear you....I got 50% up front.:evilb:

Chiming in here. I was born in 1980, so I don't really have the experience/knowledge base that a lot of you have, but I share the sentiment. It seems like in the 90s, boats just got really, really, gaudy. I have a much smaller budget than a lot of you, so I'm building my sleekcraft in the other thread, for as cheap as I can. But one thing that I've noticed is that my boat STILL LOOKS GOOD. I'm not sure why, but it seems like that same boat, sold in the 80s, looks like ass. The seat stitching got uglier, the graphics got more outrageous, and the overall look did not age well. On top of that, it seems that older styles of boats simply aren't available; if it's a smaller boat sold today, chances are it's going to be an open bow family-mobile, not anything fast looking. I don't get it. This new generation of powerboaters, ie ones, that own the gaudy graphic'd boats just seem to be total bro-machine boats. You know the type.

/ end rambling

You've done an excellent job on your Sleekcraft. Hats off to you for bringing a classic back to life. When you are finished, you'll have something better than any of the newer models available today.


Indeed, during the 90's, manufacturers couldn't resist the urge to start slapping on the most abstract graphics they could dream up. Strange geometric shapes, and random splotches of color here and there that looked more like a bad skin condition than art.


There is a huge gap in the market when it comes to good looking, small performance boats that are somewhat affordable.

You had so much variety in the 70's and 80's that totally disappeared in the late 90's, and hasn't returned since.

I just cringe when I see all those open-bow boats lined up in the parking lot of the local boat dealers. I know they are popular, but that is only due to a lack of choices in a particular price range.

A change in the market is desperately needed.

"I just cringe when I see all those open-bow boats lined up in the parking lot of the local boat dealers. I know they are popular, but that is only due to a lack of choices in a particular price range."

I talk to guys localy here in SE Florida about making the crossing to Freeport or Bimini and what type of equipment is required. I see a lot of dejected faces and am then told that I don't know what I'm talking about when I tell the "don't even try it in your 24' bow rider. I try to explain that one wave over the bow and it will be "MAYDAY...MAYDAY...Coast Guard Palm Beach...."

I guess some guys have to live it before they believe it.

The ocean is a completely different world and the "Tube towing special ain't going to cut it..OFFSHORE"

The darn things just aren't very seaworthy, but they're light and economical. I imagine their sales will increase as fuel prices rise.

A proper offshore boat has plenty of freeboard. The 255 is an excellent example. Those old T-Bird Liberators and Interceptors are really what the market needs right now. Trouble is, those type of boats are only going to appeal to the quickly eroding middle class. The well-to-do folks want the newest thing they can get their hands on with staggered 1300 mercs that need to be rebuilt after every other poker run.:eek:




I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the 402 in the classifieds is in fact the same boat used to shoot the '83 brochure photos.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...a311dn/402.jpg

Looks even better in the water!

Does that boat have DRY exhaust :eek:

Looks like its wet in the Ad...