Speeds from Offshore Racers in the '60's and '70's
04-22-2012, 09:09 PM
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So there was a transition period from straight inboards and v-drives to stern-drives sometime in the late '60's ~ early '70's.
As in auto racing, the recreational boating crowd (all of us) are benefiting from the things you guys learned slamming yourselves and your equipment all over the ocean. It looks like 60~70 mph was near the top of the hill at that time. What were some of the most significant changes you have seen over the past 30 years to the sport?
The cruising speeds that top of the line off shore factory boats achieve these days were top speeds guys like you were finishing races with...amazing how far the technology has evolved. At the end of the day I guess the limit is how much punishment the human body can take. We can make the equipment stronger but we are at the limit as to what we as men can tolerate. I think making it safer and more comfortable is always a goal.
As in auto racing, the recreational boating crowd (all of us) are benefiting from the things you guys learned slamming yourselves and your equipment all over the ocean. It looks like 60~70 mph was near the top of the hill at that time. What were some of the most significant changes you have seen over the past 30 years to the sport?
The cruising speeds that top of the line off shore factory boats achieve these days were top speeds guys like you were finishing races with...amazing how far the technology has evolved. At the end of the day I guess the limit is how much punishment the human body can take. We can make the equipment stronger but we are at the limit as to what we as men can tolerate. I think making it safer and more comfortable is always a goal.
Racer
04-22-2012, 10:23 PM
#13
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well . by the time I went to work at don Aronow inc and which became cigarette racing team inc , I had been in appox. 14 offshore races world wide and gained a lot of hard offshore lessons.the original cigarette racing team was Don, Knocky and my self ,we were the only ones that had prior offshore experience working at that shop 188 st. By then we knew how to layup a heavy race hull that would not fail.The problem was low hp engines. they were around 600hp each and maybe 700hp with headers.Also early props.This limited our speed, if had todays 1350hp engines we would run todays speeds. When I built the MSV 44, the Idea as to run three engines in ruff seas and break100mph.I did this later in Europe with 2 BPM engines privately. The longer the hull the better the ride. the new lighter hulls may be more dangerous in my mind in high speed runs . a heavy hull is required to handle a heavy sea safely . all my new hulls are designed with this in mind.sonny miller thanks again for the interest
Thanks for the education...even if it's just a peak.
04-22-2012, 10:41 PM
#14
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ahh . . . yea . . . yea i think i've heard that name before, interesting of history there. thanks i have a couple friends that have Mirages they will enjoy the history lesson.
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Throttles- Cleveland Construction 377 Talon
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Throttles- Cleveland Construction 377 Talon
08 OPA Class 1 National Champion
08 Class 1 Geico Triple Crown Champion
08 OPA High Points Champion
10 OPA Class 1 National Champion ( happy now Ed! )
04-23-2012, 12:26 AM
#15
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Jacks race shop was just one of the many talented engine builders here in the Detroit area back then, and now... 
04-23-2012, 07:16 AM
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[QUOTE=sprink58;3670361]All of this confirms what my engineering "Gut" tells me...for the open ocean...HEAVY deep vee with enough reliable BIG power to push that wave busting vee hull through heavy seas. This is the "Formula" for long distance, reliable high speed running. Sonny, your MSV 42 with 2600~2700 horsepower would be tough to beat in hard core "Grown Man" open ocean conditions. Kind of reminds me of what worked so well with the Apache 41.
Thanks for the education...even if it's just a peak.[/QUOTE your gut is correct, the future of offshore power boats for racing seems limited to only a few. the original purpose was to have a testing ground to try new ideas for hulls and engines and drives paid for by daring clients , not at the factories cost.this allowed us to build faster and safer sport boats for the market, it was also self financing.today to try to build only narrow race boats now and then is difficult financially . the future of hulls is wider and enclosed. the future of engines will be high torque small compact diesels with high torque drive systems, some think theses are to costly up front, but this package will run for years. we chose the gov. market , they are stable clients and honest men to deal with. all of my 40 plus years in racing and boat building are put to work in this field. I am training my sons to run this business . I was a pioneer in this business long before many others, most of the current projects are fantastic looking. sonny miller
Thanks for the education...even if it's just a peak.[/QUOTE your gut is correct, the future of offshore power boats for racing seems limited to only a few. the original purpose was to have a testing ground to try new ideas for hulls and engines and drives paid for by daring clients , not at the factories cost.this allowed us to build faster and safer sport boats for the market, it was also self financing.today to try to build only narrow race boats now and then is difficult financially . the future of hulls is wider and enclosed. the future of engines will be high torque small compact diesels with high torque drive systems, some think theses are to costly up front, but this package will run for years. we chose the gov. market , they are stable clients and honest men to deal with. all of my 40 plus years in racing and boat building are put to work in this field. I am training my sons to run this business . I was a pioneer in this business long before many others, most of the current projects are fantastic looking. sonny miller
04-23-2012, 07:56 AM
#17
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[QUOTE=CAL500;3670484]
Sonny...we are all in business to stay in business and sounds like you are on the right track.
I like the concept of strong compact diesels and drives with superior metallurgy to allow the power to transmit to the water...over the long haul. Stay after it...hopefully some of the R & D will filter down to the consumer level.
All of this confirms what my engineering "Gut" tells me...for the open ocean...HEAVY deep vee with enough reliable BIG power to push that wave busting vee hull through heavy seas. This is the "Formula" for long distance, reliable high speed running. Sonny, your MSV 42 with 2600~2700 horsepower would be tough to beat in hard core "Grown Man" open ocean conditions. Kind of reminds me of what worked so well with the Apache 41.
Thanks for the education...even if it's just a peak.[/QUOTE your gut is correct, the future of offshore power boats for racing seems limited to only a few. the original purpose was to have a testing ground to try new ideas for hulls and engines and drives paid for by daring clients , not at the factories cost.this allowed us to build faster and safer sport boats for the market, it was also self financing.today to try to build only narrow race boats now and then is difficult financially . the future of hulls is wider and enclosed. the future of engines will be high torque small compact diesels with high torque drive systems, some think theses are to costly up front, but this package will run for years. we chose the gov. market , they are stable clients and honest men to deal with. all of my 40 plus years in racing and boat building are put to work in this field. I am training my sons to run this business . I was a pioneer in this business long before many others, most of the current projects are fantastic looking. sonny miller
Thanks for the education...even if it's just a peak.[/QUOTE your gut is correct, the future of offshore power boats for racing seems limited to only a few. the original purpose was to have a testing ground to try new ideas for hulls and engines and drives paid for by daring clients , not at the factories cost.this allowed us to build faster and safer sport boats for the market, it was also self financing.today to try to build only narrow race boats now and then is difficult financially . the future of hulls is wider and enclosed. the future of engines will be high torque small compact diesels with high torque drive systems, some think theses are to costly up front, but this package will run for years. we chose the gov. market , they are stable clients and honest men to deal with. all of my 40 plus years in racing and boat building are put to work in this field. I am training my sons to run this business . I was a pioneer in this business long before many others, most of the current projects are fantastic looking. sonny miller
I like the concept of strong compact diesels and drives with superior metallurgy to allow the power to transmit to the water...over the long haul. Stay after it...hopefully some of the R & D will filter down to the consumer level.
04-23-2012, 08:35 AM
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[QUOTE=sprink58;3670500]
Sonny...we are all in business to stay in business and sounds like you are on the right track.
I like the concept of strong compact diesels and drives with superior metallurgy to allow the power to transmit to the water...over the long haul. Stay after it...hopefully some of the R & D will filter down to the consumer level.
you are correct again . we at cal500 offer a 4b cummins hi po engine and our drive all stainless steel constructed drive system as a replacement of gas engines and drives. 350 hp with 700 pds torque at 2600. this engine will also be offered in the 2014 titan truck. stay tuned cal500.com I wish you good luck sonny miller
Sonny...we are all in business to stay in business and sounds like you are on the right track.
I like the concept of strong compact diesels and drives with superior metallurgy to allow the power to transmit to the water...over the long haul. Stay after it...hopefully some of the R & D will filter down to the consumer level.
04-23-2012, 04:41 PM
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yes you are correct , with those hulls in 8 to 10 ft seas the best we could maintain is around 50 mph and I can still feel It now. also Brownie is right, Guys like him created this business and these ocean speeds with great boats. I have been lucky to have met them. sonny miller
