winterizing question on 92 454 bravo
 

I live in Calgary where it gets very cold. It's time to get my boat out of the lake and winterize it. I've had it for 3 years and have hired pros to winterize it in the past but this year want to do it myself. I've hired pros cause I had another boat about 6 years ago which I did a bad winterization on and I cracked the block.

My method was to run engine on muffs and garden hose until warmed up, then attach hose with funnel to muffs and pour antifreeze until it starts to come out exhaust. Then keep pouring and have buddy spray fogging oil into carb until stalls. This is what I did on my previous boat but I didn't let it warm up enough for the thermostat to open and thus the antifreeze didn't get into the engine (hence the cracked block).

So my question. Although I plan to let it idle for at least 10 minutes (15 mins to be safe) until I change over to the antifreeze, how can I be 100% sure my thermo opened and allowed the antifreeze into the block? I just want to be 100% (no 1000%) sure this time. Also what type of antifreeze should I use. I'm planning on using the pink rv plumbing antifreeze, or do I use actual car green antifreeze - its been a while so I forgot.

Thanks

If I lived where it was that cold, I would just pull the thermostat out, and do the winterization. Replace it with a new one in the spring.
There is this kit which can make it a little easier. Years back, I put a schraeder valve stem on mine (like a tire) and hook up a small 12V compressor to it to force the antifreeze into the motor vs. relying on gravity and SWP suction.

I did it that same way for many many years with no issues. The key was always make sure the t-stat was open while running on muffs and would know by grabbing/pinching all hoses coming from stat housing were flowing warm water. Then ran 5 gallons of mix from a gas can with short hose and muffs. Never a problem. Last couple years I drained blocks making sure close to same amount water flows out of each side of block and pull the water hoses off any cooler and drain. Reconnect and pull stat and pour rv or antifreeze.

Multiple methods and I'm sure everyone has their own way but just saying what works for me. Northern MI.

If you do drain blocks make sure there there is no corrosion etc blocking drains. Paper clip or short piece of wire can come in handy.

Emergency method. Pull bottom hose from water pump. Drains heads, intake, top half of blick. Pull bottom hoses from exhausts. Drains manifolds and risers. Remove thermo housing. Reinstall water pump hose. Fill intake with green full strength antifreeze till it is full. Take hoses off raw water pump. Stick a shop vac on the hoses and suck them out.

So the beastie held up the summer?

👍 Been there also. Good call on the exhaust manifolds. Completely forgot to mention that unfortunately....

Yup, she's been running great all summer - used it a few times a week for a few hours at a time, pulling kids on tubes and cruising at wot. Running good but still not as fast as I'd like at 45mph at 4200 rpm, but that is with my 19P. Will look at a 17P next year.

I'll try that method. Only question is why would I remove the water pump hoses and use shop vac, after filling the intake with antifreeze by removing the thermo housing? Wouldn't it all by the antifreeze already? BTW - I assume 'water pump' and 'raw water pump' is the same unit.

Thanks

spend $100 on a proper winterization setup.

-$60 sub pump
-$20 Rubbermaid container
-$20 pvc for exhaust pipes

make a simple anti freeze loop so you can continue to run the engine until it's warm ensuring the t stat is open. Once complete fog engine on antifreeze loop. Simple and easy

no, the water pump is on the front of the engine. the bottom hose drains the block pretty far. the raw water pump is hanging off the right side. pulling those hoses drains the oil and power steering coolers. and vacuuming them out is easier way to be sure the coolers are empty.

I just don't trust draining engines or even vacuuming. I vacuum will not pull water from a slight low spot, because if air suction can pass over the low spot, it won't pull all of the water with it. Now this little bit of water likely won't be enough to freeze a crack a block; however if more left over water migrates to that spot, it could do so. Remember, we often move the boat after it's winterized which could move left over water around to a low spot. Also, if something is damp, but not submerged in water, that's how corrosion (rust) gets started. SOME antifreezes contain rust inhibitors; so having the internal passages submerged/filled with (proper strength) antifreeze is better, IMHO. True, an empty block won't freeze; but it can rust, especially if the last water you ran through there was city water with a chlorine content; or perhaps with some salinity.

Ayuh,.... Drain everything,... Air don't freeze, even at the -40° We see up here,....

OK, I decided to go the method I've used in the past. Ran it on the muffs for 15 minutes (way more than enough time for thermostat to open), then turned off engine for no more than 10 seconds as I swapped the hose on the muffs to my funnel. Started engine and immediately started to pour pink rv plumbing antifreeze until I saw pink coming out exhaust. At that point had buddy start to spray fogging oil into carb as I continued to pour pink antifreeze - until the engine stalled. I used up 20L of the antifreeze.

So my question(s), as I'm still a little concerned as I did crack my block in my previous boat which had a 5.7 magnum in it:

1) as mentioned in my process, after 15 mins I turned off the engine for 10 seconds as I swapped hoses - I assume the thermostat would remain open after such a short shut-off - please confirm

2) with my method, is there any way for me to confirm the antifreeze made it all areas of the engine, or at least to confirm past the thermostat? There are 4 hoses to the thermo housing - if I disconnect each from the housing and see pink, does that mean it worked?

3) I'm considering adding a heat source inside the engine compartment over the winter as an added insurance. Is an incondescent light bulb good? Or should I go with a little portable heater - if so would you recommend a conventional unit or a infrared? I also have a spare heating blanket. Your thoughts? Is this even needed, or just a waste of electricity?

Thanks

Sidwayz, I was saying vac out the raw water input hose and oil cooler. Since it is difficult to unhook that hose at the low point to drain. Leaving the block full of antifreeze. And DNA, put the outdrive down once it is parked. Every spring there are new threads... Help! My outdrive is stuck up!!

Do you have pictures of this? I would like to know what container you use to catch all the water and antifreeze coming out of the exhaust ports, especially if you have silent choice. How do you hook up the PVC to the exhaust tips and get them down to your container with the sub pump in it?

Why dont you drain the water out of the block and manifolds and refill with antifreeze?

I would not trust your method as you dont know how well the antifreeze you added mix with the water in the block. It didnt work before, and now you will have all winter to ponder whether or not it work this time....

When running engine, a LOT of water goes thru thermo housing and STRAIGHT out exhaust. That is how you cracked the block. If you can get to the block drains, pull them and poke a small screwdriver in the hole. My method is for when it is November and you kept thinking you were gonna go out one more time and then the weatherman gives you that Oh Sh!!!t! moment. Remove hoses from bottom of exhaust manifolds. Remove thermo housing. Remove hoses from raw pump. Remove big hose from bottom of circ pump. Drain. Reinstall big hose on circ pump. Fill block with green straight antifreeze thru hole in intake where thermo hsng was till intake full. Take the out hose from raw pump and jam the end under the oil pan. If Batts still hooked up, fire engine up for 5-10 seconds to mix water and a/f in block.

ill take pictures but it's easy. Go to Walmart for giant 25 gallon Rubbermaid container. Home Depot has cheap sub pumps. Fill the Rubbermaid container with anti freeze. Hook the sub pump up to muffs. That feeds the engine.

To complete the loop put together some 4" pvc tubes to plumb from exhaust back to Rubbermaid container. On the ends of the pvc put rubbed couplers with hose clamps. From scratch the setup takes about 30 minutes to put together. After that just use it year after year.

I always drain the block of water before running it on the loop. As someone already said it's better to be safe than sorry with introducing water with antifreeze. But this way you know the t stat opens and you can run it on the loop to fog.

How do you also catch the antifreeze that comes out of the transom assembly from the Y-pipes?

if you already did your winterize procedures you just mentionned, please do yourself a favor. Take the drain plug off on each side of the engine block, you will be surprised how much water there might still be in the block without antifreeze, even if you ran them 10-15 minutes


i always run the engines and warm them up like you do, then i drain water from everywhere i can, then run them on muff with rv antifreeze, till it starts to go out from exhaust.

your ennemi is water right? So take it all out first. For the small amount it may still be inside, the antifreeze will mix it up and no surprise.

good luck!

post 5 and 6 in the link below --- is the other side of the coin. Most of these AF do not have enough corrosion inhibs in them anyways plus other info posted on my part. .All anti freeze is a form of Alcohol and needs to be PH balanced with enough corrosion inhibs into the mix for that end of protection against rust formation.

Also watch the video. Now if the slightest water is mix with the pink stuff it will expand. Even if no expansion the anti freeze gets solid as a rock (like in the video ) - It is rough on the impeller, the internals of the water circ pump and the T stat and so on, Think about it - you are freeze solid internal parts of your engine for months on end.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...02-magnum.html

I am not a fan of this period because, I have seen cracked parts from this form of winterizing. Especially the V6 intake manifold. Also in my case I have liability as well. warm and cold winter days - kids and or whomever takes the boat out in a warm week of Jan - 2 weeks later it freezes. Just saying on my end for that.

If you used -50 RV antifreeze, I'd say at best you have 50/50 chance. Most likely your A/F is diluted with the water that was still in the engine.

the idea that antifreeze or even propolene glycol mixtures don't have enough anti corrosive inhibitors is wrong. look at a car system. When's the last time glycol rusted out the internals. Never that I can remember.

when working for NASA on an ECLS system for the Orion space capsule we did exhaustive studies on the effects of propolene glycol and antifreeze on metal. Especially aluminum hx plate find with large surface area. We let the setup run for months on end while filtering debris thru 10 micron filters. We never observed delta P increases that would warrant concern with corrosion nor did we physically observe corrosion on parts. We even did immersion testing where parts were submerged and allowed to sit for weeks. Nothing. The content tested was nothing more than wal mart worthy antifreeze.


Secondly i dont don't know anyone in the northeast that doesn't recommend antifreeze. This includes, marinas, surveyors, offshore shops, etc...

just my 0.02.

most say for plumbing systems on the label and when have you seen any of these pink AF in auto cooling systems. I am not talking about dex cool here. Even boat heat exchangers closed cooling systems do not use this form of AF. There is a couple of reasons as to why they do not. I am talking about NON toxic propylene.

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/seafit---50-f-marine-rv-water-system-glycol-alcohol-antifreeze-gal--14823330?cm_mmc=PS-_-Google-_-GSC%2520-%2520Product%2520Type-_-14823330&product_id=14823330&adpos=1o6&creative=10 8421551244&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAI aIQobChMImZDUnIG41gIVhpN-Ch2ZvgwoEAQYBiABEgLW7PD_BwE

Like I said plumbing systems and this one even says not for engines on bottle. If It does not say safe for internal engines / and or corrosion protection for all metals, I would not use it. Seen many use this for winterizing their engines because its pink and cheap and is advertised for boat wintertizations.

Plus I am sure the stuff that NASA used for testing was not 2 or 3 dollars a gallon product.. I am sure it was blended for what that specific testing need was for NASA.

I am sure they did not order the $ 1.99 Walmart propylene AF for space shuttle testing and thought it would cover the broad spectrum use of it. . .

Indmar winterization NON cat marine engines. - No AF period and have this exact winterization in their owners manuals as well.

Also for the past 5 years Indmar sells more engine packages than Mercruiser. I am sure they know about winterizations as well and reliability of their branded engines.

http://www.inboardonline.com/library...1317923495.pdf

Lift drive. Place Rubbermaid under drive then lower. Plumb your pvc from exhaust into container. It should catch everything within reason. Then hookup your muffs and your done.

I prefer to go off experience, test results, and reports that I write rather than what someone else has generated. Sadly I can't divulge any more details. It's classified ;)

What about draining the block and filling it with pure nitrogen? Wont freeze or corrode!!!
Fresh water cooled blocks are all rusty in side anyway, if there is that much concern go closed cooling.

How big of a pump do I need? How many GPH?

Drain cooling system of water. Run Muffs with a short piece of hose to five gallon pail of anti freeze. Restart and run engine until antifreeze comes out of exhaust, (it takes me about 6Gal of coolant so have extra Antifreeze to add to five gallon pail when running) . Done.

drains are located on the side of the block down low. one right in front of the starter. the other is on the other side same essential place. don't open the drain petcocks. remove them. then stick something coat hanger sized up thru them to unblock the drain passage. if your gonna do antifreeze, leave the drains out, or loose. put some in. pull drain and see if you get antifreeze. if so, you are sure there aint no pocket of water down there...but once you know the engine, exhausts and hoses and coolers are empty, I cant justify closing everything up just to put 50 bucks of antifreeze in there to dump out in the spring. 1 gallon in the block itself? I can see that.

You have the northern version to a T. Only thing to add here is pull the Tstat housing and fill the block with "real" antifreeze. 30+ years of boat winterizing here in the near north and never a problem. People that are willing to cheap out on a few dollars for the extra measure are the fools that find themselves with a cracked block come spring. Few bucks for antifreeze vs many bucks for new block? Brain dead simple to me, drain into a bucket in the spring, run thru a strainer, recheck the strength next year and reuse it.

My present boat is closed cooling and I still run the antifreeze thru the sea water portion every year. I sleep just fine on those nights mid February when the temp dips to minus 35.

Very old saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, " An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!!! "

Pluz, t-Stat needs pulled and inspected or rust flakes chipped out every year anyway. But make sure you see-feel the drains drain empty. Then pour in antifreeze and you should be able to taste it immediatly oit the drain. Now you can fill block with antifreeze. My water pump hose method is not as thorough, but sometimes the drain plugs are flat out inaccessable.

I think ours is 1/6 or 1/4 hp. That's more than enough. We usually buy 10 gallons of coolant. Fill the Rubbermaid container with 5-6 gallons to start. Start your pump then fire the engine. Should be able to run it for 5-8 mins before it starts to heat up the coolant. Once the t stat pops you are good. Fog it and your done.

been doing it like this for 8-9 years. Never had an issue. Not a fan of the drain and pour into the t stat. Nor am I a fan of running the engine on a jug of coolant. That jug goes fast and you don't know if the t stat pop or not.

Doesn't Peak or someone make a 100% enviro friendly automotive grade anti freeze... I remember seeing commercials about it.

It is this here - Indmar in their close cooled apps use to recommend this exact brand as we followed their OEM recommendations. I currently see the pricing all over the place - 25 bucks to over 100 bucks.

https://peakauto.com/products/antifr...motive/sierra/

Sorry for bringing up an old thread but have been meaning to post pictures of our winterization setup. Some people had questions. This should help.

The image below shows the Rubbermaid catch container with a sub pump. The sub pump ican either be routed to muffs or the fresh water pickup. We use the fresh water pickup. Easier and less leaks.

we also have the luxury of using clear tubing to catch antifreeze as we have dry exhaust. Will show another image for people who have wet exhaust. Anyways process is simple. Can run engines for minutes on end ensuring antifreeze is in the system. We do this from a cold start up. Works perfect.
https://i.imgur.com/C1wiROv.jpg

For people with wet exhaust. Can make up a simple pvc setup with rubber slip fittings and hose clamps. Hose clamp them to exhaust. Position them into container and your done. Simple and easy.

https://i.imgur.com/hnFeLYS.jpg

I ended up using this setup.

Nice setup!!! Similar to ours. Hope my suggestions helped.