1966 19 ft. St Tropez
 

High I'm new to this site and a new donzi owner . I just got a 1966 st. Tropez and want to know more about the boat ie how many were made in 66 and I have the 302 holmanmoody with the Volvo 270 out drive it runs good but needs a throttle and steering cable every thing else is original the gauges need some help though . and info would be greatly appreciated

Are you the guy with the HM Boss 9 engines ??

No I'm not sorry

Small world. I have one too . The guy I bought it from in 1987 said it was a '66 but it could even be a 65 . I did a complete resto in 2006 that involved taking the boat down to its component pieces . New everything , tanks , wiring , gauges , power the whole lot .
If you go over to the Donzi.net and do some searching you'll find plenty on the St Tropez . If my memory serves me right there was a long break when they didn't make any at all and then they did one as a special order in 1972 or thereabouts .. I'm not positive on that though . I believe that the entire run was something like 117 of them .
In 1966 Donzi was trying to keep up with the production orders of the 16 but they were also building the 19 Hornet (decked St T hull) and the 28 sport . The 28 was built at a different location though than the smaller boats.
If that boat is original as you say then you're way past on borrowed time with the fuel tank/s . My original front tank was toast in 1987 and the rear tank under the console had been replaced shortly before then .
How many tanks do you have ? My 2 tank layout was factory but it seems that no-one else has one . They all have a single .
They are remarkably cool and practical little boats that aren't afraid of some big water but I just wish they had the 24deg hull like the other classics.

Thanks
 

I've always found the tank issue of interest because everyone except me seems to have a single tank model. You are sure that there is not an old unused one up at the very front that runs from just under the cockpit sole to the V of the bow area ? I don't know how they were able to spec them out at 42 gallons with only one tank that goes under the console without encroaching on the space of the lazarette under the sole in front of the console .
I have no idea how many were built in '66 or any other year for that matter but with an approx total of 117 they aren't exactly common by today's standards and no doubt very few are left.
What color is yours presently ? Mine was it's original dark blue gelcoat when I got it but it was so burnt out that it more resembled faded denim . I think that at that time , besides white , a sky blue was also made as there's a guy who showed up on the Donzi.net a few years ago who was in England who had found an original from '66 or thereabouts that had a little 4 banger in it and it was completely sky blue . Deck , hull and tub.
It should be relatively easy to determine if yours was ever re-painted as any paint job is going to be completely different than 1966 gelcoat . Maybe peeling a bit of the rub rail off of the transom will reveal the original finish if they didn't completely strip the boat for re-finishing.
The big question is , is there a hull number anywhere ?
Mine had absolutely none and I've been over every square inch of the interior hull , deck , console and liner .
I have seen a Benchset Hornet 19 , which is a VERY rare model and I know where the hull number was on that one and what to look for in that vintage but there is no equivalent place on ours .
If you know how to do it you have to get up to 10 posts before you can put up pics !
(Incidentally there was a software/hardware problem over at the Donzi.net a short time back and loads of pictures attached to threads vanished. I had a thread about my resto and as far as I can tell the pics are all gone now)

That's a Hornet 19 .
St Tropez is same hull but a center console .

I'm not sure about the other tank there is a clear glass check gauge in the floor just above the live well in front of the cc so it may have a tank in front I'll take a look and let you know . also the color of the boat is a dark blue , and funny thing I read the thread about the guy in england with the 6 cyl st Tropez. Also the donzi reg. Did finally get me squared away I email the harbor master and he got it done . the previous owner told me he remembers the hin# being on the inside of transom were the vent plate ot intake plate is . it does totally make sense that there would be another tank because there's a fuel fill port on the front deck . when I get back up to my other place were I put the boat at I'll look into it. Ive veiwed all the pics and floor plans for that year and they all match what I have . do I can't wait to get her in the water and see how she does .do you think the new owners of donzi would have any of the old records ?

Yep , it does sound like there might still be a tank under the front deck. Unfortunately the only way to get it out neatly is to completely take the boat apart like I did but you're probably not in that frame of mind yet !
The old (original) way of putting hull numbers on these things was using a black wax pen , writing the number and then putting a layer of glass cloth over it . Then they started using these small stick on aluminum looking tags . Of course ,mine had neither . And no , not back by the rear vent either .
If you can find (unlikely) a hull number it would look something like C19-** . The benchseat Hornet that I mentioned earlier had a hull number of C19-39B , that translates to
C-Chisholm ownership/19-19 foot hull/39- 39th one made/B-benchseat model.
If you could find a legitimate number you could maybe get Matty to see if he has a build sheet on it. He has many of them and often references old builds for people. I can assure you that anyone at Donzi today would probably laugh if you gave them a number and asked them what it means . Since ours were built Donzi has changed ownership about 5 times.
While I'm at it , those hulls are prone to serious stress cracking in the area of the full length strakes about 3 feet forward of he transom. Have you seen any of them yet ?

Great info thanks
 

I looked the hull over when I bought it but didn't see any stress cracks but I didn't get on my back and slide up under the boat . I will need to do it for sure thanks for all this info I'm happy o found you on hear . as far as the tank in the floor your saying I'd have to pull the lid off to change it ? . your right I'm not up to that one yet but who knows I've done a few other boats like that ( other brands ) lots of work lol . and thanks I had no idea they changed hands 5 times . I'll look for the hin but your right I think even if it had one it would be faded out . I was just so happy to get the boat so cheap 2k that I figured I'd have to do some work on it . but all in all it seems to be a good condition boat , but I'll pull it up on the slab and slide up under it . can I fix the stress cracks by glassing over them or do I resin fill them ? Thanks

If your bottom is unpainted (antifouled) the cracks will be very obvious. Mine looked like simple gelcoat cracks along part of the length of the strake and I didn't worry about them too much . It became more obvious as time went on that one of them was slowly weeping water .
Another member around here found one a few years ago and when I saw the bottom of his I was pretty concerned . His were way worse than mine and he didn't even recognize them as a serious problem area. The area falls about a foot outside of the full length stringers and seeing that it's only a lightly built single skin construction in a high water pressure area it's not really surprising .I've seen the same thing on a similar year 16 as well.
When I had the thing gutted I repaired them properly with plenty of grinding and glass work . Actually puttied the strakes and put another layer or two of glass on the entire bottom .
That forward tank is put in in such a place that it's impossible to cut it out without doing major damage to the deck mold and floor . The glass work that would be needed to be done to make it all invisible again would cost more than removing the deck and floor tub .
Oh , what was it you said about having bronze trim tabs ? Never heard of them before .

Ya the bronze trim tabs were a cool suprise probably a aftermarket part that some one put on early in its life . funny the boat is almost as old as I am lol. I'll probably take them off of there not a stock item because one is intact and the other is missing parts . neither one works any way . as far as the forward tank I think I'll leave it alone for now . the bottom doesnt have antifouling paint on it and is white so the cracks should be easy to spot . funny thing tho the guys who painted it brought the blue down to the foul line passed the 2 top strakes on the bow and one of the pics I saw the white came up on the bow over the those top strakes which is correct ?

Still having problems visualizing bronze trim tabs. They must originally be off of a really old Chris Craft or something similar. The electrolysis problems that stainless steel can pose is bad enough , can't imagine what bronze would do now with all that aluminum alloy right next door !
If you have those cracks , and I can't imagine that you don't , you'll see them easily enough . Like I said , I didn't pay much attention to mine until I figured out that at least one of them was weeping water . Even the Benchseat Hornet I mention had them .
The early Donzis weren't necessarily fast because of monster HP for their time , light construction had a lot to do with it was well . If you end up removing that old transducer , as I did with mine , you might be surprised at the thickness of the hull bottom .
When all of the Donzis had only a colored hullside but white bottom they put a contrasting or white bootstripe on them at the chine . From the chine down was white so yes, those strakes and all parts of the fwd hull above the waterline would have been white as well .
As an alternative example there was a red brochure boat a long time back that had an entirely red hull with white deck . The entire hull below and above the waterline was red but they put a black bootstripe on it .
In terms of our boat comparative age , I've got mine beat by a few years. I wouldn't mind having been able to buy it the year that it was built but that would have been a bit of an improbability. haha
Am I correct in assuming that you haven't actually run the boat yet ?

Yup correct I havent run it yet I need to change out the steering and throttle cable . but she starts up on one bump happy about that but scared what I'll find when I to shift her into gear but the I bougjt it from rebuilt the lower unit and he was a marine mech . so well see lol
mine has a gold boot stripe on it is that some thing donzi would have done orig. ? Hey as soon as I can take some pics I'll post them up especially those trim tabs . can I buy the cables any were or is there a special brand like donzi reg. I should buy them from ? One of the guys sent me a # for getting some parts for my gauges . I did look at another site and they were 300$ and up .

Very unlikely for that time frame a gold bootstripe would have been factory even though throughout the 70's and part of the 80's Donzi did some really creative color combinations.
You say it's been painted below the chine so whoever did that probably got a bit creative with their color scheme.
Check your throttle/shifter binnacle . If it's a Morse then you should stay with a Morse (red jacket ?) cable . If it's a Merc unit then Merc cables.
If it's the original HM package it's more than likely a Morse unit . Mine had a Merc in it when I got it but I've long since reverted back to the Morse control .
I would guess that you probably have the old classic Stewart Warner gauges in that thing . Can't get them any more I think . And you know that replacing one mismatched gauge at a time doesn't cut it ! !
And don't worry about that old 270 drive. It'll still be going long after you with normal oil changes. They're almost indestructible .
I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that if everything is good with your 302 H/M and the boat is propped correctly you're probably looking at a top speed of 45mph on a good day .
Every post gets you closer to 10 and then it's picture time .

Yup the last owner said that it ran arround 48 so your right on the money . and yes I do have the Morse control but it can't be the original one looks like 90's version . the gauges are vxo I believe probably out of a later model boat so I'll have to see what I can do there replacing all of them seems like a lot of money . I did that on my dusky and even buying the stuff at the marine left over store it was expensive . but I guess they don't call it a hole in the water for nothing lol . there's also holes in the cc like some one had a wind shield on it but I don't see that reflected in any of the brochures that ive seen

The holes in the console might have been from a previous contoured grab rail . I certainly haven't ever seen any with a windscreen on them . Mind you , a custom short 60/40 green tinted one might look sweet . The Bertram 20 Sportsman pulls it off very nicely .
Those gauges must have come somewhere down the line after the boat was built as I think ones of that vintage had the classic S/W ones with the H/M engines.
Things do add up in a hurry though , but if you've got something you like and plan to keep it then treat yourself !
My estimation on speed was based on the difference between what mine did with the 351W/Merc Alpha one that was in it when I got it and my friend's BenchSeat Hornet with the original 298 H/M and 270 non trimmable drive (set to the midle pin hole) As good as they are the old Volvo units just aren't quite as hydrodynamic as the old Merc ones .
I could easily outrun him but I topped out at 50 back then . It's an entirely new ballgame now with an MPI 350 Volvo and DPS/A drive.
Two more posts and pictures can come ! ! !

I'll have to look at the out drive again it maybe a 170 because it has power trim ,unless the 270 had it as an option or some one changed it out . ya can't wait to let you see some pics and get your feed back on the boat ( a pic is worth 1000 words ) lol . I am going to repaint it so maybe I'll patch the holes up although I will look at the Bertram and see if it'll work thanks . from the looks of it I thought the motor was a 302 Is that correct or is it what you were saying a 289 ? Is that what they came with ? I'll be heading up to my other place Friday or saterday and I'll put all this incredible information you gave me work
also be asking more I'm sure . as far as the gauges your right about keeping it forever so the 2 that are broke I'll replace and I'll get a bezel for the other on because there in good shape but who knows a lot of times I just go full bore lol. I did on an old elcamino and the hasn't stopped giving me greif about for years haha ooh by the way I traded that one for a dolphin boat that I still have .

Do those bronze trim tabs have a WB or Wolverine Bronze cast into them?

I don't know but I'll check . I did pay that much attention to them but the wolverine name sounds familiar . but the older I get the less I trust my memory haha .

As far as the engine goes I wouldn't want to guess anything but the Bench Seat Hornet that I referred to was a '68 and it had the original 289 . I don't know enough about H/M stuff to say whether they were doing 302s in '66 though.
The drive though could be a bit more confusing . I'm not sure but I believe that the 270 wasn't yet available in 1966 . It might have been the 200 or 250 drive then .
The thing is they all look nearly identical. The 270 unit was the 270 unit whether it had trim or not . When it had the trim option it was the 270T as the later 280 that had trim was a 280T
They are easily identified as trim models because of the 'elephant ear' appearance of the trim mechanism on either side of the transom assembly . Do you recognize those on yours?
Now , here's the trick part. Anyone could switch out the gear shift cover plate as they were all interchangeable and put a 270 cover on a 250 or 200 , so you can only be certain that you have a 270 if it has trim as the 250 and 200 didn't have that option.
And ... If you do for sure have a 270T on a '66 St Tropez then it probably wasn't original to the build as the 270T didn't exist in '66 . And that goes for the engine as well if the 302 wasn't available in '66. You could have a total re-power job going on there ! (but don't panic, you've got good stuff)

Truth be told I couldn't tell a 289 from a 302 any way lol I'll have to see if I can find the block #s
I think after this post I can post pics yee
I'm heading up tomorrow for sure so I'll be sending the pics . but what I can do is see if I can down load the pics from the add and post them .

Thanks yes ive seen it in fact went I first got the boat I was poking arround the differnt sites and saw the lay out matches mine exactly so I real happy

Madbouyz I just viewed some pics of the 170 and the 270 and I definitely have have the 270 I did see the pic of the dps ( I think that's what it is ) sweet unit stream lined like a racing lower is that the one you put on ?

Don't worry , I couldn't tell a 289 from a 302 either if they were both dressed the same way !
In Volvo nomenclature the AQ170/270 referred to the old in line six engine they got from their car lineup and marinized it to make 170HP with 3 Solex carbs and an oil cooler plus a few other tricks. It was direct Swedish competition for the old GM based Iron Duke in line 6 that was marinized to make 165 HP and put out way back then by both OMC and Merc.
The 270 part of the equation refers to the 270 outdrive.
My pops had a pair of them in a 24' Jim Wynne sport boat that was hammered for 14 years and they were flawless and trouble free. So , in other words there is no such thing as a '170' drive .
Yes , I tore out all the old Ford/Merc stuff and went with the new GM/Volvo package. At first I thought the single prop SX/A unit would be fine but the boat was virtually out of control and handled terribly with it so after messing with a few prop changes I bit the bullet and exchanged the single prop for the DPS/A .
If you put it next to a Bravo one it makes the bravo look like a 22 cubic foot upright Amana fridge in term of hydrodynamics . It corrected all the handling problems and the thing is scary fast. I still don't know how much though as the boat has been up since initial testing to make sure everything was ok.
People think that twin prop units are for big boats only .. not true at all . Until I put the 2 prop unit on my boat I never realized how much a single prop throws a small boat around .

ya I know I had one on a 28ft seaport and loved the way it ran it had a 350 and would do arround 40 but for trolling if was the best made that motor sip fuel and the unit was bullet broof

Yeah , those old in line 6's were tough little motors. Not much on the performance side but they took a licking . Especially the Volvo 170 as it was a much smaller displacement block than the GM version and revved higher too..

@ Rak .. history ? haha
Imagine having 2 boats with a combined age of almost 100 years between them !

Well there both 66s so 102 years between them lol . hard to imagine that a boat can last 51 years and still be useable says a lot for the donzi guys and how there built . also for the people who have loved and cared for them before us . I know I'll not be parting with mine it'll be one of those things I'll hand down to one of my son's if they prove worthy of it .
Madbouyz , is there any info on how to squeeze more hp out of my set up ?

I like to think of it as an old boat not just being usable but still desirable !
Personally I hate this new characterless stuff with no colorful history behind it. I'll be the first to admit though that a lot of this new stuff in general is far better built .
As far as getting more out of your engine goes, I'm no engine guru but there's plenty of threads here on that subject .
I'd first suggest running it and making sure it's in best possible shape and tune . Plugs, leads , distributor , clean carb , belts , oils and filters . Maybe do a compression test at least.
I never played with my old 351W other than top maintenance and I was always pleased with it . The quest for more never ends though . Once you do 'x' you soon outgrow it and want more.
Tell you the truth . I have no idea how fast mine is yet but I think that I kind of liked it when it's top end was 50 . Now it's a handful but I still like how it runs under 40 the best .

Yup your rite it's way more than useable thats why I jumped in my truck and drove 6 hours to get tje min the guy posted it lol . and as fas as x goes yup you can go crazy getting to x but then you always want more I'm real good at that unfortunately my wife doesn't like x never will lol but I think for now I'll be happy as he'll just painting her and and redoing the cushions . there solid color blue but I saw the original ones in a photo I think they were blue and white pleated

Yep , you don't have to spend much time around here to read stories of guys who took a 65mph boat and got it to a 70mph boat then that wasn't enough and they wanted more and more .. lol
When I finally did the big 5 year re-do on mine I treated myself to two things that I couldn't do myself and upholstery was one of them . In '87 I had new basic white with blue piping
cushions made but after the resto I had super old vintage blue and white striped cushions made like you would see on the period Donzis ,Magnums and Cigs. It's really stunning and still a bit cooler to sit on in the glaring sun than a pure dark color . It's really like a retro candy cane look .
You're now past 10 posts so you're able to put up pics at any time ! (hint , hint)

I tried to save the pics from the add to my ph but I guess because he posted it as sold now it won't allow me to bummer , but hey I'll be up there by tomorrow night and Sunday morning that'll be the first thing I do . ya I dig the blue and white stripes on the Tropez the guy has posted from Lake george I beleive also I love the way the white comes up on the front of his instead of being even with the water line . I have to tell ya I can't express how grateful I am for all the time youve spent giving an education on my boat id have been lost with out it big time thanks Madbouyz

No problem !
It's very rare to find someone who knows what a St Tropez is much less talk to someone who has one .
It's a pity that all of the pics that were up of my resto vanished in that computer problem . They would have answered any questions you might have had about what's under there , or behind here or how is such and such put together/built .
Looking forward to seeing some pictures .

I'll be on my way up to my other place just need to load up some tool and the 4 wheelers . hey I remembered we spoke about the hin# and you were saying that it wouldn't be were the owner said it would be . do were is it supposed to be I'd like to see if it was one so maybe the guy you know with the build sheets can look her up

The problem is , because these things are so rare even on the Donzi.net , I've never heard of anyone discussing where they found a HIN on a St Tropez . Never !
I'm not sure if the foil tags started when the Chisholms bought Donzi but in a lot of instances they fell off or became unreadable after a decade or two.
On the other classics they were most often behind the dash near to the instruments but we have no equivalent place on ours and normally the number written in black pen and under a layer of glass is about a foot long .
I can assure you there were no number anywhere on mine . I've been over every inch of the boat inside and out . Was there a possibility that it had a foil tag ? Maybe , but that would have long been gone and would indicate that the boat was built under the Chisholms watch and wasn't a '66
I think that Teleflex owned Donzi in '66 and they were still doing the hull numbers the same way as when DA owned the place.
I believe that back then a number would look like (a C16 example) 16-376 , lacking the letter 'C' designating Chisholm built . (16 footer number 376 in the run)
If you find a number I'll be amazed .

Well it's probably not there but I'll poke arround tomorrow and give her a look I'll be doing a lot of photographing any way
either way I'm just happy its rare and I got lucky enough to get one . honestly I had no idea how rare this boat was when I bought it . I just never saw a donzi open fish with an inboard so I had to have it lol

I'm pretty certain that I've read somewhere that the St Tropez was the industry's first 19' centre console . Bertram was making the 20 Sportsman during the same time frame and I guess that very shortly after that the Makos and Aquasports came out . I remember the early Makos and Aquasports arriving out here sometime around the later '60s.
If there is a number on the transom near that vent it'll be easier to see if you open the rear deck hatches and lift out the fish box inserts . On my boat that entire area still had the factory grey finish on it so there wouldn't have been a number written under the glass work there . Also the under deck area of the forward storage locker was all the same grey so there wasn't any numbers there either .
I was thinking about your earlier comment about the holes on the console and a possible windscreen . It's a chance that they could be from the factory installed grab handles. They were short chromed bronze pieces big enough for only one hand to hold that had a teardrop shaped base on each end utilizing three screws , two screw groupings per side. Maybe that's what they were ?
Good luck and I look forward to hearing about your discoveries.

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