TRS Tips & Tricks
 

It's been almost 20 years since I've owned a TRS boat and my guess is someone has learned some new tricks for keeping them alive.

This new boat has TRS on it and as I'm going through it, I'm wondering what I can do to help them live. If memory serves, the uppers were fairly bulletproof if not aboused. The lowers on the other hand had their issues.

Beyond non-pitted gears and proper setup, are there any new tricks?

I think BAM marine has a coating or some process they put the gears through to make them stronger.

Yea the new trick is to replace the trs with Konrads,best trick in the book

Not funny.

The problem with the Konrad conversion is that the TRS boats are getting so cheap, that you can buy the boats for less than a set of Konrads.

"back when", we abused the hell out of TRS drives. If maintained properly, they were damn near unbreakable. Konrads are nice but they're no give-away. This is an interim boat anyway while I finish the re-rig on the Apache.

Yeah, I saw that. Most likely it's a dry-film lubricant/surface treatment like M2SO4 or WSX and then cryo. We've done that for a long time and it does work well. Cheap too.

I have no idea what you just said, but it sounds cool. :readinghelp::stupid:

M2SO4 is ordinary Molybdenum disulfide- or simply "moly". It's blended into a base and applied via spray, then baked on. It builds a very slippery thin film of about 0.0001". WSX is tungsten disulfide. It's a very fine powder that can be infused into the surface of ferrous metals by burnishing. It's stronger and slipperier than moly but harder to apply. Another material is boron nitride which is the equivalent of ball bearings made of diamonds that lack brittleness. Basically the toughest, slipperiest stuff ever. It's bonded to an electroless nickel base that's process-applied. Haven't tried it on gears- but this may be a good time to try it.

You already know what cryo is.

Beat me to it!!

Pull the TRS and save them for when you sell the boat or sell the TRS now to offset the cost, they have value now!!! :D

Chris:
Tres Martin used to change all his customer's TRS oil to full synthetic Royal Purple. Made them more reliable.

It seems like any more prop than the Mirage series, (3-Blade), puts a strain on the drive that eventually finishes it off.

I've been hearing about Royal Purple from a pal who races BMW's. He swears by it. I'm going to try it.

Ed, you wouldn't believe the Cig. I know I said I was just going to tidy it up and run it. That didn't last. Within 24 hours of being back, the engine compartment was gutted and the transom stripped. The cockpit is stripped and off to upholstery. I'm going to strip the cabin tomorrow. I've already ordered a couple sets of JE's and a pair of BDS 8-71's for it.

They seem to like the 3 blades better becasue they are so low in the water.

I used some 4 blade hydro's and it actually slowed the boat down running the same rpm's

go figure?????

I have had the same luck with my 20' Cigarette setup. Running a 4 blade hydro was slower and handled strange, bow steer. With the drive deep it is tough to getting a good combination. I have tried 5 different props and the best is a solid hub Mirage 25". I have a Mirage + 27" but it needs to be labbed or something. My boat has a Mertrans and I had Huber install additional clutches and beefed it up, because I wanted it to be bullet proof. TRS is a great package but I will eventually replace the drive with a Konrad. I could probably pick up 2 - 4 mph with a shorter drive.

We've had great luck over the years with Redline Shockproof Heavy.

when craig colabella buit mine , he only use's merc gear oil.. as for the treating of the gears , when i orderd parts from bam i spoke with mark and he told me that treating the gears was crap and he no longer offered that option...

as for blades , i have been told trs's really don't like 4 blades . but , i'm sure if you talk with throttle up they have a wealth of info on who's boat with trs's does what and with what prop..:)

The 4-blades thing is simply touque loading. Like putting slicks on a car. A bit of slip softens the load.

[QUOTE=Chris Sunkin;2339179]I've been hearing about Royal Purple from a pal who races BMW's. He swears by it. I'm going to try it.



Lots of guys in the Ferrari community swear by the Royal Purple in the transaxles. Works VERY well. Shifts easier and quicker, and really helps them live.



Darrell.

hey thats my old cafe.. i wanted to to get konrads bad, glad he did it... looks great... stecz

How do you guys think that the TRS drives would run with cleavers? Didn't they originally use them? I have 3-blade Mirage 25s on mine, and I am looking for more stern lift without going to 4 blades.

Which Royle Purple product? (Max-gear)?

I ran 21 pitch cleavers on my Velocity 30 race boat (long ago) It had a high X and the pad bottom. It's really more about the boat than the drive. Since you see it infrequently anymore, my guess is that prop technology has evolved to the point that there's better choices.

Are you turning them in or out? I just swapped my TRS drives from out to in. Got the stern lift I was looking for and still could carry the bow. Boat ran flatter and flew more even when airborne. 25" mirages. old '86 Panther hull

My boat also hated the hydromotives, was really loose and squirrely with them. actually scary

My drives are turning out. Good suggestion.

WK, Just a friendly reminder that you can not just swap props on a TRS you actually have to swap the drives over. It takes its not a bad job. I did it by myself but those are some heavy a$$ drives.

Rookie
What props are you running?
what power....?

I am running 25" Mirages, not plus's. I was running merc 425s. The best I ever ran was 73mph on GPS around 5200rpm, but I had trouble getting on plane in 2 footers. I then took them to the local prop shop and told them my problems. They put them back to true 25", balanced them, added cupping and them thinned the blades a little to get my rpm's back up. Now I run 72 at 5200 and can get on plane wtih minimal blow in any water conditions. And gained about 4mph in my cruise speed.

I am now upgrading my power to about 615hp/side and will use these props just to get a base line for my new props. so they will be up for sale this spring. I basically had the props in and out of the prop shop, tweeking these props to run on my TRS Scarab Panther. I am fortunate to have a local shop to let me test and tweek until I was satisfied at no extra charge. They also gave me Mirage+ 23"s to use while they were working on mine.

I used to have a Panther with TRS drives. Turning the drives IN made docking a PITA and the boat rode on the keel and would handle crappy in rough water. The boat would land on it's side from prop torque didn't feel comfortable in quartering seas. Although it gained 1-2 mph by doing it I wound up switching it back.

I was first running 25" Mirage props to 5300 rpms and the boat ran 74 mph but had some cavitation issues and didn't carry the bow to well. I then switched over to 25" Mirage Plus props and it solved the cavitation problem and lowerd the RPMS to about 5200 but I was able to run 76 on a good day.

I also tried nose cones on teh TRS but thats when I started breaking lowers. I'd usually blow a lower (mostly the counter lower) every other year (Ocean running). I removed the nose cones and didn't have any problems with the drives again.

If I had to do it all over again I would probably run a 23" prop and turn 5600 rpms to save the drive a little. Turning the RPM's saves the drives a little.

Oh yeah...when the drives were turning IN the props had a lot less slip. It was about a 100-150 rpm difference and it would load and unload the drives/engines a lot harder upon re-entry in rough seas.

Good info...thanks for posting

Thanks Panther, I always like to hear other peoples experience to compare things I have tried. I had the bad handling characteristics you talk about when I ran the 4 blade hydromotives, ran right on the keel, bow steered, bounced from chine to chine and would land on its side some time.

But when I put the mirages on they handled much better, but the Rake and cupping were changed to change the whole characteristics of the boat. I can now carry the bow and get the stern out of the water. These are not stock props and results will differ.

It is a different ride when spinning in. It took me about 2 hours to change them over not to bad for a free performance check. Those S.O.B's are heavy and I suggest involving a friend.

Panther what power were you running, 420's?? And any more info on the nose cones? Brand? Performance gains? Handling? I was thinking of the nose cone thing but hearing your problems with lowers I am a little concerned. It does make sense, when you epoxy a nose cone on you basically are insulating the front of the drive where the gears are located. Keeping the heat in and the cold out. Less thermal transfer.
Thanks,
Jason

I was running 502's, they were about 500 hp a piece. I never had my props labbed, balanced etc... I ran a best speed of 76mph with a box-stock 25" Mirage Plus. The Mirage Plus has more cup at the end of the blade and carried the bow and was better out of the hole. I never tried 4 blades because my experience with them on other TRS boats was less than stellar.

When I installed the nose cones it felt like the stern squated a little bit more than without. I don't recall gaining any MPH, they just looked cool. I didn't like how the boat ran in rough water which is mostly what we run in over here in NJ. They say there's not much gain in a nose cone unless you're running faster than 80-85 mph.

I'm pretty sure I still have the nose cones at home if you're interested.

A few pics.... One of the board memebers in Ohio owns her now...pretty sure she's still running around! :)

http://www.lucidideefastboats.com/im...lRun1-2001.JPG
http://www.lucidideefastboats.com/im...-PR-2001-1.JPG
http://www.lucidideefastboats.com/im...cean3-2003.JPG
http://www.lucidideefastboats.com/im...cean4-2003.JPG

Great looking boat I have seen pics before! Might be interested in the nosecones, but I need to finish the new power, hydraulic steering and see where I am at. The coolness factor of nosecones are nice, but at the expense of the lowers I might reconsider. I need these TRS's to live a while. I have stashed away a couple sets of gears from e-bay. I had a friend with an '86 Top Gun (heavy boat) with 750HP w/ 4 blades and that was not friendly to the TRS's if he missed the throttle. 1 a summer.

Curious? How did you like your Panther, I know its not = to your Apache but for a 29' 6"' entry level offshore boat. I really like mine but not to much to compare to, I run with allot of 28's Sabers, Panteras and 29 Powerquests. I think I hold my own.

dont use k-cleavers for stern lift use a can cleaver for that boat, i run the can cleaver in flat races and the boat turns like a stepped super v loose and flat...

Sabers and Panteras are a much more solid boat and comfortable riding boat.

The Panther was a production boat, Welcraft pumped them out back in the 80's. The hull/deck weren't glassed together and no bulkheads up the side of the boat. The hull/deck is bolted together with #10 screws if I remember.... They flex a lot in rough water and not the best riding boat I've been on.

When I owned the boat I separated the hull and deck and 5200 the whole thing and glassed on the inside anywhere that I could get to. I put in bulkheads behind the dashboard, up near the v-berth and tied the firewall in the engine room to the side of the boat. This helped a lot with flex but there were times in some heavy seas that I really felt that boat flex a lot.

On the flip side.... I owned the boat for a number of years and it was pretty good to me. Not many mechanical problems and it served its purpose. If I lived on a lake or bay I would have kept the boat. Having the Atlantic in our backyard I needed something bigger that was safe and comfortable for me and my passengers.

It is no Saber you are right. I am doing the 5200 to the deck and hull this winter, seperated mine also. Lake Michigan is where I am all the time and it takes a beating. Thanks for the info on the bulkheads and glassing other places. Mine has treated me great with no complaint. I they are a great intermediate boat if you are just getting into the offshore boating. You can pick up Panther relatively inexpensively.

Back to the original topic: TRS TIPS AND TRICKS.
1. Good throttling
2. Royal Purple (IMO)
3. HP to Weight ratio
4. Apparently NO nosecones (see Panthers sexperience above)
5. Mainteneance (change your oil, also take off you top cap and take a peek)
6. 3 blade Props

I have run nothing but 4 blades since getting this boat restored and very pleased with the results: 72mph at 5200 and 47mph at 3700 with Hydro 25, 70 mph at 5000 rpm and 48 mph at 3700 with Hydro 26, and my final choice being a Bravo 24 with 69 mph at 5000 RPM and 51 mph at 3700.

The Bravo prop has been quick to plane without any blow-out and has an excellent mid range cruise: 45 mph @ 3350 RPM, my cruising speed 95% of the time.

Lucas gear oil every 50 hours.

Hey US, what kind of tranny you got?

trs
 

First time user here.
I just picked up a extra set of trs. drives gimbles and BW trans. I will use everything but the Trans. So have a set of trans. available.
Question, Have never removed the gimbles, can this be done
without removing anything from inside of boat?
The replacment gimbles need new studs, how do you replace studs?

By the way: Boat is 1983 Scarab III, came with cleavers and was impossible to get on plane in big waves. Put on 4 blade hydro's and boat ran way better.

Thanks,

I've come to the conclusion that the best TRS mod is the Konrad.

I was trying to convince myself this was just a second boat and I didn't want to go overboard. Having missed 2 seasons with a stalled boat project, the thought of missing a 3rd due to a broken drive and searching for NLA parts in the end was just un-appealing. Especially considering the decent boating season up here is about 90 days and half of those weekends it's raining.

Plus, now I can mount the blowers on the motors and still sleep soundly.:)

Thanks all for the input!