TRS Wont Go Down
 

1980 Scarab with twins and TRS drives, I thought my pumps had gone bad so I switched to the new style pumps and I still have the same issue. The pump is turning, the drive doesn't move. I can jump up and down on the drive while someone holds the switch and it will barley creep down. Oh and I bypassed the reverse lock out when i hooked up the new pump. I guess what I should say is that I dont have the hydraulic line running to reverse lockout any longer. Maybe it still has some presence that Im unaware of. I tried moving the throttle in and out of gear too just to make sure. I also accidentally hooked the pump up backwards the first time and same result, would go up but not down.

What the heck am I doing wrong??

Thanks
Bill

Are both drives doing this?You need to check that all your trim cylinder lines are hooked up correctly.Look at the connection block under the transom assembly outside and see that the lines straight across from each other go to the same holes on the trim cylinders.If this is correct disconnect one of the lines from a cylinder.If the drive comes down than that is the up line.Watch out for the oil squirting out of the hole as the drive drops.Reconnect line and disconnect the other line on that same cylinder.This should be the down line. Have some one operate the switch down and check for fluid flow out of that line.If you have good flow than either the pump is not allowing the fluid flow back through the up line or you have a problem inside of a trim cylinder.If the drive does not drop when the up line is disconnected than the problem is in the trim cylinder.Your problem should not have anything to do with the reverse lock out being bypassed.

Also make shoer the pump is hooked up right !!!


Green is bottom solenoid and blue is top !!!

Thanks Jim, Yes both sides do this, which I find odd. When i purchased the boat both of the resovoirs were low. Not knowing what fluid to use I asked the local marina and they said ATF fluid. Could that have anything to do with it?

More then likely you need to trim rams. Take them off one and and see if you can turn the end by hand. If not then your scrapper seal is likely gone. You can rebuild them with some basic tools and time invested.

Jon

Well I guess I know what I'm doing tonight. Thanks Jon

I really don't know if tranny fluid would work or cause harm,I've never heard of anyone using it.I do know you should be using 10W-30 motor oil though.If you filled those new pumps with ATF and thats what was in the system I would recommend draining the pumps and trim cyls.Disconnect both lines from both trim cyls.Lift the drive all the way up by hand and let it back down to remove all fluid from cyls..While lifting fluid will come out the down holes and as drive goes down fluid will come out the up holes.Drive should fall easily by itself when lines are disconnected.If they don't fall by themselves with the lines disconnected you have a problem in the cyls. .After refilling your pumps hit the switch up for about 5 second and then down about 5 seconds to fill the lines with oil.You should have a good flow coming out of the lines when you do this.Reconnect your UP LINES to the 2 cylinders.Leave DOWN LINES OFF at this time.Run the pump up till drive is all the way up.Hit the down switch until fluid comes out of the lines from the pump then connect your down lines and run it down.Running up and down a few times will bleed the system of air as the fluid passes through the reservoir.

I run ATF in all my trim pumps , the steering and the tranny !!!!!

Never had a problem.


Why would u use motor oil in a hydraulic pump ???? Thats not good !!!!

ATF oil is hydraulic oil . With color ,,so u can see the leaks.

When I switched the pumps out I used 5-30w motor oil. I'll pull the lines tonight.

Some pumps want 10-30 others use ATF. If you have one of the pumps that is about the same size all the way up then more then likely you should be using ATF. If you have a pump that has a big metal resovoir then strait 30 wt. If you have one with a plastic resovoir then 10-30.

Jon

It seems so backwards that it wont go down. Not going up I understand, its gravity and outdrives are heavy. The damn thing should fall down when I hit the switch. i was shocked that it didn't fall when i unhooked the pump.

Mercury clearly states in the TRS Service Manual #5 to use 10w30 or 10w40 MOTOR OIL in all their trim pumps Prestolite and Oildyne


Now I do know someone that uses ATF oil in trim pumps!!!

If it don't fall with the lines disconnected there is something wrong in one or more of your cyls.I've seen a piston come apart before in a TRS trim cylinder and locked it all up.

My drives on my Formula 302 say ATF on them. The 311 says ATF on the tabs but 10-30 on the drives.

The pump puts out more preasure in the upwards direction. Less on the way down. My guess is that your scraper ring went bad and then the next piece in ussually freezes up (second picture down on this link http://www.ebasicpower.com/c/MER3E/ )

I put a remote button on mine so I could lower mine by myself:drink:

I only have trouble with one of my drives. When I am underway I Kick up the RPM's alittle and then hit the switch and it goes right down.

You guys have been a big help, thank you. I'll let you know in the morning what it was.

Bad trim cylinders. Those suckers are STUCK. It took a breaker bar to even spin them. Whats crazy is they look better than most externally. Rebuildable?? Replace?? I need four of them.

U can rebuilt them easy and not allot of of $$$ needed.

You say they are the external line design?They have one of the lines running up the side of the cylinder on the outside?Overhaul kits for those are $120 each.Then if you have any 'hard parts' damaged inside (which is very possible)you will be most likely out of luck.It is almost impossible to find parts for those.That was a junk design.You would be better to switch to the internal line design.Just my opinion.There is a nice pair on ebay with the lines and connector block for $400 or make offer.The guy lives in Irvine.You can contact him and he may have more than 1 set.I know at one time he had 2 complete drive setups he was parting out.You see them pretty often on ebay and Offshore Only classifieds.I bought a nice pair off ebay for $200 that I am keeping for spares.

You can rebuild them. Of course you have 4 so it is going to sting a little bit. :D

Take them apart and see what you need. Bam has the rebuild kits and the part that I linked you to before is what is likely bound up on your set up. They can be honed out some times but you will probably find that things are scored up a little bit. I am trying to find out what the difference is on the Bravo set ups so that maybe I can jsut get some of those. They may work and should be easier to find. I know that when a buddy of mine was in a bind I gave him a TRS cylinder to put on his Alpha and it worked fine just a little longer.

Jon

I'm pretty sure these are the internal ones. The lines screw in right the mount point.

Jon I was wondering about bravo's. These are so locked up there has to be some scoring inside. I tried to unscrew the end off last night with a pipe wrench and a breaker bar, and it wouldn't budge. That is how they come apart right?

I just threw him an offer. We'll see what happens. Thanks Jim

U can buy all the o-rings at the local hardware store for 80 cents each !!!!!!

And flush the lines, 1200 sandpaper the rams and stick them back together !!!!!:rolleyes::eek:


Thats how easy it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:food-smiley-007:



PS, i just rebuilt mine on the Speedmaster for not even 10 Dollars and 1.1/2 hours of my time !!!! :ernaehrung004:

Scott

That's how they come apart all right.I put the end that the lines screw into in a BIG vice Ive got.Then unscrew the cap with a BIG pipe wrench.If all you needed was the O-ring kits it would be one thing but if you have to start replacing parts it could get expensive real quick.The cylinder sleeve inside those which the pistons actually ride in are over $100.Those trim cyls.before they became NLA were $900 each.I seen reproductions which you can get now for $725.Sounds like your on the right track.You could probably find someone who would want them old ones for parts!You may even be able to take them all 4 apart and make a couple of good ones.

Are they backwards thread or standard? Am I'm glad to hear a big vice and big wrench. I put some decent pressure on it and when it didn't budge I kinda had to scratch my head.
EBay guy doesn't really wanna sell them to me because I've never purchased or sold anything on EBay. I'm just a buy in person kinda guy and never wanted to wait on the EBay thing.
Daredevil do you have some for sale?

Sorry,,,i have 1 set of # 3,4,5 rams for sale ,,but no TRS !!

Standard thread;Lefty loosey-righty tighty

Standard thread as others have said. Heat is your buddy with this one. Heat up the cap and don't be afraid to try hard.

i have bravo rams on my trs its been a while i think a couple lines had to be changed and some aluminun on the case had to be cleaenced a little for the external line.

rebuild the rams about 100.00 each in parts you will have to press off end caps and sand shafts with 1000 sandpaper or red scothbrite pad. todd

STILL Wont GO DOWN!!
 

UGGHHH!! Ok so I bought 4 rams, they came shipped in the collapsed position so I know they will go down. I install them last night and I still have the exact same problem! :angry-smiley-038: What the heck and I'm missing?? I've replaced the pumps and the rams now. If the lines are disconnected and i hit the trim switch oil squirts out pretty darn hard. And it does it for in or the out depending on which switch I press. Oh and they go up without issue.

trs
 

Be sure you have not crossed the lines that feed them . Also I once had a grounding prob. on the pump and it didnt open a valve or something?

Will the drives drop with the lines disconnected?It so then I would think the lines are somehow crossed.

Stupid question- but you said you replaced the trim pump right? I would look really hard at the wiring- knowing myself and all the stupid sh%t I have done over the years I would make sure you have the solenoids hooked up correctly- when you push up it should squirt out one line- when you push down it should squirt out the other- if it squirts out the same line on both up and down then you have a wiring problem:eek:

That could also be the case !!:ernaehrung004::rolleyes:

I haven't tested that yet. It got dark on me too fast. I was kinda making the assumption that they did only becasue the rams came to me collapsed. But you know what they say about ASSumptions, so thats a good call. Thanks Jim

You know, wiring and I just dont get along. So that has really good potential. I've only switched out one pump so far. I left the other stock pump in place, and both sides are doing this.

Daredevil thanks for taking sometime on the phone with me. It's always nice to meet new folks, even if it's only over the phone.

Crossed connections really seems to be the thought here. I'll check it tonight.

Thanks for everyones input.

Bill

Heres a picture
 

Ok here is a picture of the starboard drive starboard ram. Lines correct or wrong??

Thanks
:food-smiley-007:

Same drive other side.

You have the lines reversed- thats your problem. the front line on both sides go left, the back line goes right, right now you have the pump fighting the rams. When I get home I will shoot a photo if you need me to- Scott

Just reverse the lines on the right side- that should fix it