We all have our reasons I suppose. For me, I was able to sell my IMCO Extreme SC's and buy BMax drives for only a $4K investment.

I'm running 830hp/tq with roots style blowers and I haven't had many issues with the drives. Even with some of the issues I've had since 2007, I'm still ahead of the cost curve to go to Arnesons and way ahead of the #6 cost curve.

For me it made sense and can't say it would for others. However, if I was making more power I don't think I would have bothered to try this set-up. I would have bought a different boat or did a conversion. :drink:

As for the oil. I'm not blowing up drives using Amsoil now so the extra expense of the mistery oil may not be worth it unless it's proven to work. I think Mr. Gadgets has the right idea with the additives.

If I could have a #6 work, I would have had one by now. Unfortunately, moving my engine forward in the hull is not an option for me. I have entertained the idea of building a custom standoff box to house the transmission in the past, but the question of weight and balance comes to play- and then there's the cost of such conversions. I've read here about people saying the cost is prohibitive, but buy it once, or buy it 10 times before you realize what you should have done- here's the problem with that theory... The question of it working or not is a good one. There aren't many single engine hulls out there that run these types of setups. I don't know that a 6 or an arneson would work any better or worse for me. All I know, is that they would most likely live longer. I haven't read about anybody having an arneson failure, but with the limited amount of structural hardware, I'd hate to be the guy that destroyed one at speed. The conversion is only rated at around 800hp. At least with the bravo stuff out there, I feel comfortable saying that when something breaks- it's not gonna kill me. Please understand- I'm NOT saying anything bad about the arneson, but look at the design, what is there to break. Transmission? Ok, no biggy, shaft/ball assembly- if that breaks, what's to keep the skeg/prop pointed in the direction you were traveling before the break? I envision the event going about the same as if I broke a gimbal ring- and that doesnt appeal to me. I know there is an arneson drive suited to handling this type of power, buy we come again to the point that moving the engine forward in this hull is just not an option. IMO and FWIW, I think the arneson is a fantastic product- do I think it would be faster? Probably. Do I think it would live in most applications? Can't see why not. Do I think it's a worthy investment for most people? Absolutely. Do I see arnesons in my future? Not on this boat

How often are you changing your drive oil?

All American Drive Service in Michigan sells the special mix NEO oil for drives also. That's where I got mine.

?? The rudder fin on an Arneson is nothing like a Gimbal attachment so there is no way that the rudder can twist and point a different direction.

As for breakage, the Arnesons come with a warranty so you do not have to worry about this.

The engine does not go forward

15-20 hrs, 2-3 times a season.

One thing that wasn't mentioned here. Does your new oil mix with water?

Rik- in all fairness to you, how much power can one put ahead of your drive(conversion drive asd8?)? At what power level will you not honor your warranty? If there is going to be a failure in your drive due to too much power, what would it be? Please don't take anything I've said here as an insult to you or your product... I like the concept, and I like what I see of the finished product... I'm just asking questions here. Several companies/people have made some pretty outstanding advances and products within the performance boating community, and in a lot of different areas... I'm not going to bash any of them for their hard work or efforts! I had a problem, and I chose what I deemed to be an affordable solution to it with the b-max drive. So far, it has exceeded my expectations performance wise, and the customer service I have received from the bravo shop has been outstanding.

Yes it does mix with water and for the life of me I don't know why that is on the top of your list. If your drive is taking on water you should fix it not keep changing oil. The Bravo Shop oil will last up to a 100 hrs so no need to spend $ 50-60 a gallon on amsoil + the Lucas additive x 3 changes= 75-80 dollars a service for a Bmax, now x that by 3 = $225-240 a year or $92.00 a year for The Bravo Shop oil.

I will post pic's on The Bravo Shop FB Page of what happens when you mix water with Merc oil and you maybe surprised.

Well you mentioned the ASD8, not the #7M Kit. The ASD8 is rated at a conservative 1500 hp on a heavy big Cat of V hull. Your hull being so small would not put a lot of stress on much. With the ASD8's I have people with over 2,500 hp going through these with no problems so where is the breaking point when they do not break?

Rik, I think he ment to ask about the capacity of the #7M conversion kit. What's the most power that has been put through it in field use? Is the trans the weak link?

Thanks I'll check it out. How long have you been marketing the oil? Dean never mentioned it. How many hours/years of testing have you done?

Any drive that's immersed in water should have an oil that allows it to mix with water IMHO. If you pick up something like a fishing line and tear a prop seal you may not know it until it's too late. PS, my "BMAX" drives do not have water issues and I've supported your product many years now. Any questions feel free to contact me.

Wow, that's some fuzzy math, ever consider politics? :D

I couldn't do any worse then who we have now!

From their website:

"We purchased the Bravo Shop in May, 2010. We currently own and operate Waconda Welding, Inc. in Union, NE which we opened in May 2002. At Waconda Welding we do welding fabrication and auto repair. Since we are close to two small lakes and own our own boat, we got into the marine repair service also. We are also an authorized Mercury parts dealer with a full line of Mercruiser Stern Drive parts. When we purchased our BlackThunder, it had the BMax drives on it. We thought they were great drives and when Dean decided to not continue to support or manufacture them, we felt it was a perfect opportunity for us to take it over.

This is a family run business. There is myself, my wife, and my two sons that work for the company.

We look forward to working with you, and making the BMax drive a better product and a reliable product for the industry.

Looks for us in Performance Boat Magazine and on their web-site.

Thanks,

John and Michell Pfahl"

http://www.bravoshop.net/BMax_Drives.html

+1:drink: You can call me too....

I had to make up 6 of my own o-ring grooved washers to seal the upper to the gimbal. Also made a plug to keep the o-ring from collapsing into the shift pin dia. Never leaked since. That was 4 seasons ago. Only weak link for me is the vertical shaft snapping at the pinoin bearing sleeve dia. and the lower gear sets wearing out. Been using Mobil 1 75w-90 with a bottle of Lucas between the two.
I change the Gear Lube every season.

I was just curious why you changed oil so much.

The base oil has been used in the marine industry for years and we added some new additives to it to make it even better. We are also testing some new oils at this time. We have all the major oils being tested against ours and hope to have the results by the end of June.
Heres the deal we are not bound by API or any other standard as to how to make the oil so we can make it fit the application we need. Where as API branded oils have to test within the parameters set for them by API for what ever rating they are trying to meet.

Lets talk some time

Its been my experience if the lower vert shaft is snapping off it is do to heat cause by the bearing fitting to tight in the bore of the housing. And also to thick of oil not allowing the the bearing to stay properly lubricated and causing extra heat and weakening the shaft.
Was this problem with the BMAX lower or the Imco Lower.

Yep, it's the IMCO lower. I also replaced the caged roller bearing that Dean and IMCO used with the Merc style rollers and sleeve. No more signs of heat on the race. Maybe thats why I have not broken one since. Knock, knock, (wood table) :D

Glad its working for you.

Was the OD of the caged roller bearing you were using smaller than the Mercury bearing?

I too was going to change from the Dean's caged bearing over to the Merc bearing but the ID's are different. All the machinist I spoke with cautioned me from having the case modified to accept the larger OD Merc Bearing because unless it's in the fixture the drive was originally machined it wont line up perfectly. Now I just replace them every other season to be on the safe side. Bearings are cheap and my time doesn't cost anything. :drink:

Also gotta watch out the sleeve isn't too tight on your vertical shaft. It will tighten up the clearance between the shaft and the bearing wearing it out faster and making a lot of heat. I've been told to get my shaft machined and even turn down the race but I've had better luck ordering a few sets of bearings and using the one with the proper clearance. Apparently they're not all created equal. ;)

I dont remember if there was a diffence between them on the dia.
I had the drive guy do the work.

Merc 2.130
Bravo Shop 2.061

Don't know if we're talking about the same one. Here is a pic.

Thats it!

I like the Catalog pages with the nice pics on your site.

Thanks. I don't have a lot of time to update the site like I should. So if you don't see something, make sure you call.

So what's the cost for a B-Max Drive?

$14200.00

How much fluid does a BMax & imco lower hold?

Since this thread resurfaced, I will ask a question too. Does B-MAX make a drive that bolts directly to a standard bravo transom assembly? If so, would it work with ITS?

yes they are direct bolt-on

Since this is back I have a very nice set of upper gears for a b-Max for sale

Any good used BMAX uppers out there?